Bowser promised “zero traffic deaths” 10 years ago, but fatalities have doubled

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ironically there is not much daylight on the Venn Diagram of the Vision Zero crowd and the DC crime sentencing “reform” crowd. It’s like you can carjack a car and face no punishment but if you run a red light in a car they want you to do hard time.

false. stop grandstanding.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ironically there is not much daylight on the Venn Diagram of the Vision Zero crowd and the DC crime sentencing “reform” crowd. It’s like you can carjack a car and face no punishment but if you run a red light in a car they want you to do hard time.

No, the sentencing reform crowd usually thinks traffic enforcement is racist.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ironically there is not much daylight on the Venn Diagram of the Vision Zero crowd and the DC crime sentencing “reform” crowd. It’s like you can carjack a car and face no punishment but if you run a red light in a car they want you to do hard time.

Electric chair if you block a bike lane. "Understanding the root of the problem" for sexual assault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ironically there is not much daylight on the Venn Diagram of the Vision Zero crowd and the DC crime sentencing “reform” crowd. It’s like you can carjack a car and face no punishment but if you run a red light in a car they want you to do hard time.

No, the sentencing reform crowd usually thinks traffic enforcement is racist.

That’s why they want to ban cars instead of enforcing traffic safety laws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are not being killed at an alarming rate. The numbers have been very steady over time. If anything most of the counter measures have made things worse by increasing congestion on high congestion roads. It's always been a stalking horse and I for one am glad to now have more names attached to these morons whose ideas are so bad.

If your goal is fewer pedestrian deaths that increasing congestion does not "make things worse" because congestion is not a cause of pedestrian deaths. Congestion slows down drivers and speed is the #1 cause of pedestrians being hit by cars (even a car going the speed limit can kill a pedestrian if they go through a traffic signal or stop sign or turn without signaling or yielding right of way).

Congesting may make other things worse but it does not lead to pedestrian deaths which is the subject of this thread.

Also I will probably regret this but what rate of pedestrian deaths would you consider "alarming." I am guessing you think there is a number of deaths that is okay which is interesting because what you are saying is that there is a human death toll that is "worth" having shorter commutes or being able to drive faster. That's interesting to me. What if every time we built a highway or highway bridge 30-40 people died during construction. Would that be alarming. Or would that just be the cost of making sure people can get from Point A to Point B -- some people are gonna have to die.

If dozens of people were being killed on WMATA trains and buses every year, the system would be shut down. But dozens of people die on DC streets and we are supposed to shrug and moving along while changing absolutely nothing. I fundamentally do not understand this attitude. It’s as if those who are killed in vehicular crashes are some kind of less worthy species whose demise we shouldn’t be much concerned about.

Get a grip. Are you worried about being murdered? Because you're far, far more likely to be murdered.

Nope. I'm far more likely to be hit by a vehicle. As is everyone in my neighborhood.

And your argument is just stupid. DC residents can expect the city to take action to both reduce murders and road deaths.

Then maybe they should notice that deaths don't move down after they listen to the increase congestion crowd. Clearly what is being pushed doesn't help.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are not being killed at an alarming rate. The numbers have been very steady over time. If anything most of the counter measures have made things worse by increasing congestion on high congestion roads. It's always been a stalking horse and I for one am glad to now have more names attached to these morons whose ideas are so bad.

If your goal is fewer pedestrian deaths that increasing congestion does not "make things worse" because congestion is not a cause of pedestrian deaths. Congestion slows down drivers and speed is the #1 cause of pedestrians being hit by cars (even a car going the speed limit can kill a pedestrian if they go through a traffic signal or stop sign or turn without signaling or yielding right of way).

Congesting may make other things worse but it does not lead to pedestrian deaths which is the subject of this thread.

Also I will probably regret this but what rate of pedestrian deaths would you consider "alarming." I am guessing you think there is a number of deaths that is okay which is interesting because what you are saying is that there is a human death toll that is "worth" having shorter commutes or being able to drive faster. That's interesting to me. What if every time we built a highway or highway bridge 30-40 people died during construction. Would that be alarming. Or would that just be the cost of making sure people can get from Point A to Point B -- some people are gonna have to die.

If dozens of people were being killed on WMATA trains and buses every year, the system would be shut down. But dozens of people die on DC streets and we are supposed to shrug and moving along while changing absolutely nothing. I fundamentally do not understand this attitude. It’s as if those who are killed in vehicular crashes are some kind of less worthy species whose demise we shouldn’t be much concerned about.

Get a grip. Are you worried about being murdered? Because you're far, far more likely to be murdered.

Actually the fact that society seems to collectively shrug at the traffic deaths and freak out loudly about murders is pretty weird. FWIW they seem to be related since the historical low in traffic deaths was the same year as historical low in murders. Plenty of ppl concerned with both.

There were 202 murders in DC 2022 and only 35 traffic deaths. People were 7.8x more likely to get murdered than die in traffic in DC, so it makes sense that murders get more attention.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here's the number of people the DC government says were killed by speeding drivers over the past decade (2022 is the most recent year available). As you can see, the numbers are quite low given the number of people on the road.

2022 -- 9
2021 -- 12
2020 -- 15
2019 -- 10
2018 -- 9
2017 -- 12
2016 -- 8
2015 -- 11
2014 -- 12
2013 -- 11
2012 -- 5
2011 -- 15
2010 -- 8

The number of Washingtonians killed each year by speeding drivers is not much higher than the number of Washingtonians who are eaten by alligators.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the number of people the DC government says were killed by speeding drivers over the past decade (2022 is the most recent year available). As you can see, the numbers are quite low given the number of people on the road.

2022 -- 9
2021 -- 12
2020 -- 15
2019 -- 10
2018 -- 9
2017 -- 12
2016 -- 8
2015 -- 11
2014 -- 12
2013 -- 11
2012 -- 5
2011 -- 15
2010 -- 8

The number of Washingtonians killed each year by speeding drivers is not much higher than the number of Washingtonians who are eaten by alligators.

It's not zero. The program failed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's the number of people the DC government says were killed by speeding drivers over the past decade (2022 is the most recent year available). As you can see, the numbers are quite low given the number of people on the road.

2022 -- 9
2021 -- 12
2020 -- 15
2019 -- 10
2018 -- 9
2017 -- 12
2016 -- 8
2015 -- 11
2014 -- 12
2013 -- 11
2012 -- 5
2011 -- 15
2010 -- 8

The number of Washingtonians killed each year by speeding drivers is not much higher than the number of Washingtonians who are eaten by alligators.

Keeping on talking to yourself. No one else pays the slightest heed to your made-up statistics.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ironically there is not much daylight on the Venn Diagram of the Vision Zero crowd and the DC crime sentencing “reform” crowd. It’s like you can carjack a car and face no punishment but if you run a red light in a car they want you to do hard time.

No, the sentencing reform crowd usually thinks traffic enforcement is racist.

Does co-existing with fictitious characters make life more fun for you?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ironically there is not much daylight on the Venn Diagram of the Vision Zero crowd and the DC crime sentencing “reform” crowd. It’s like you can carjack a car and face no punishment but if you run a red light in a car they want you to do hard time.

No, the sentencing reform crowd usually thinks traffic enforcement is racist.

Does co-existing with fictitious characters make life more fun for you?

Not PP, but this disparate impact is the exact reason the Council gave for advising MPD to not enforce fake dealer tags.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ironically there is not much daylight on the Venn Diagram of the Vision Zero crowd and the DC crime sentencing “reform” crowd. It’s like you can carjack a car and face no punishment but if you run a red light in a car they want you to do hard time.

This is extremely true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are not being killed at an alarming rate. The numbers have been very steady over time. If anything most of the counter measures have made things worse by increasing congestion on high congestion roads. It's always been a stalking horse and I for one am glad to now have more names attached to these morons whose ideas are so bad.

If your goal is fewer pedestrian deaths that increasing congestion does not "make things worse" because congestion is not a cause of pedestrian deaths. Congestion slows down drivers and speed is the #1 cause of pedestrians being hit by cars (even a car going the speed limit can kill a pedestrian if they go through a traffic signal or stop sign or turn without signaling or yielding right of way).

Congesting may make other things worse but it does not lead to pedestrian deaths which is the subject of this thread.

Also I will probably regret this but what rate of pedestrian deaths would you consider "alarming." I am guessing you think there is a number of deaths that is okay which is interesting because what you are saying is that there is a human death toll that is "worth" having shorter commutes or being able to drive faster. That's interesting to me. What if every time we built a highway or highway bridge 30-40 people died during construction. Would that be alarming. Or would that just be the cost of making sure people can get from Point A to Point B -- some people are gonna have to die.

If dozens of people were being killed on WMATA trains and buses every year, the system would be shut down. But dozens of people die on DC streets and we are supposed to shrug and moving along while changing absolutely nothing. I fundamentally do not understand this attitude. It’s as if those who are killed in vehicular crashes are some kind of less worthy species whose demise we shouldn’t be much concerned about.

Get a grip. Are you worried about being murdered? Because you're far, far more likely to be murdered.

Actually the fact that society seems to collectively shrug at the traffic deaths and freak out loudly about murders is pretty weird. FWIW they seem to be related since the historical low in traffic deaths was the same year as historical low in murders. Plenty of ppl concerned with both.

There were 202 murders in DC 2022 and only 35 traffic deaths. People were 7.8x more likely to get murdered than die in traffic in DC, so it makes sense that murders get more attention.

The risk of being murdered in DC is much higher for young black men than pretty much everyone else. Around 90% of all murder victims in DC are male and black and about 10% are under age 35.

Whereas the risk of being hit by a car is more equally distributed across demographics. So for many people in the city (especially the people who are most likely to care about stuff like Vision Zero) their risk of being killed by a car actually is quite a bit higher than their risk of being murdered. Thus it is unsurprising that many white people in the city and lots of middle aged people of all races (on their own behalf and on behalf of minor children) are more concerned about car deaths than murders as it's something that impacts them more directly.

Source fo homicide victim data: https://cjcc.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/cjcc/release_content/attachments/DC%20Gun%20Violence%20Problem%20Analysis%20Summary%20Report.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are not being killed at an alarming rate. The numbers have been very steady over time. If anything most of the counter measures have made things worse by increasing congestion on high congestion roads. It's always been a stalking horse and I for one am glad to now have more names attached to these morons whose ideas are so bad.

If your goal is fewer pedestrian deaths that increasing congestion does not "make things worse" because congestion is not a cause of pedestrian deaths. Congestion slows down drivers and speed is the #1 cause of pedestrians being hit by cars (even a car going the speed limit can kill a pedestrian if they go through a traffic signal or stop sign or turn without signaling or yielding right of way).

Congesting may make other things worse but it does not lead to pedestrian deaths which is the subject of this thread.

Also I will probably regret this but what rate of pedestrian deaths would you consider "alarming." I am guessing you think there is a number of deaths that is okay which is interesting because what you are saying is that there is a human death toll that is "worth" having shorter commutes or being able to drive faster. That's interesting to me. What if every time we built a highway or highway bridge 30-40 people died during construction. Would that be alarming. Or would that just be the cost of making sure people can get from Point A to Point B -- some people are gonna have to die.

If dozens of people were being killed on WMATA trains and buses every year, the system would be shut down. But dozens of people die on DC streets and we are supposed to shrug and moving along while changing absolutely nothing. I fundamentally do not understand this attitude. It’s as if those who are killed in vehicular crashes are some kind of less worthy species whose demise we shouldn’t be much concerned about.

Get a grip. Are you worried about being murdered? Because you're far, far more likely to be murdered.

Actually the fact that society seems to collectively shrug at the traffic deaths and freak out loudly about murders is pretty weird. FWIW they seem to be related since the historical low in traffic deaths was the same year as historical low in murders. Plenty of ppl concerned with both.

There were 202 murders in DC 2022 and only 35 traffic deaths. People were 7.8x more likely to get murdered than die in traffic in DC, so it makes sense that murders get more attention.

The risk of being murdered in DC is much higher for young black men than pretty much everyone else. Around 90% of all murder victims in DC are male and black and about 10% are under age 35.

Whereas the risk of being hit by a car is more equally distributed across demographics. So for many people in the city (especially the people who are most likely to care about stuff like Vision Zero) their risk of being killed by a car actually is quite a bit higher than their risk of being murdered. Thus it is unsurprising that many white people in the city and lots of middle aged people of all races (on their own behalf and on behalf of minor children) are more concerned about car deaths than murders as it's something that impacts them more directly.

Source fo homicide victim data: https://cjcc.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/cjcc/release_content/attachments/DC%20Gun%20Violence%20Problem%20Analysis%20Summary%20Report.pdf

Sorry that should say that 70% are under age 35 -- not 10%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People are not being killed at an alarming rate. The numbers have been very steady over time. If anything most of the counter measures have made things worse by increasing congestion on high congestion roads. It's always been a stalking horse and I for one am glad to now have more names attached to these morons whose ideas are so bad.

If your goal is fewer pedestrian deaths that increasing congestion does not "make things worse" because congestion is not a cause of pedestrian deaths. Congestion slows down drivers and speed is the #1 cause of pedestrians being hit by cars (even a car going the speed limit can kill a pedestrian if they go through a traffic signal or stop sign or turn without signaling or yielding right of way).

Congesting may make other things worse but it does not lead to pedestrian deaths which is the subject of this thread.

Also I will probably regret this but what rate of pedestrian deaths would you consider "alarming." I am guessing you think there is a number of deaths that is okay which is interesting because what you are saying is that there is a human death toll that is "worth" having shorter commutes or being able to drive faster. That's interesting to me. What if every time we built a highway or highway bridge 30-40 people died during construction. Would that be alarming. Or would that just be the cost of making sure people can get from Point A to Point B -- some people are gonna have to die.

If dozens of people were being killed on WMATA trains and buses every year, the system would be shut down. But dozens of people die on DC streets and we are supposed to shrug and moving along while changing absolutely nothing. I fundamentally do not understand this attitude. It’s as if those who are killed in vehicular crashes are some kind of less worthy species whose demise we shouldn’t be much concerned about.

Get a grip. Are you worried about being murdered? Because you're far, far more likely to be murdered.

Actually the fact that society seems to collectively shrug at the traffic deaths and freak out loudly about murders is pretty weird. FWIW they seem to be related since the historical low in traffic deaths was the same year as historical low in murders. Plenty of ppl concerned with both.

There were 202 murders in DC 2022 and only 35 traffic deaths. People were 7.8x more likely to get murdered than die in traffic in DC, so it makes sense that murders get more attention.

The risk of being murdered in DC is much higher for young black men than pretty much everyone else. Around 90% of all murder victims in DC are male and black and about 10% are under age 35.

Whereas the risk of being hit by a car is more equally distributed across demographics. So for many people in the city (especially the people who are most likely to care about stuff like Vision Zero) their risk of being killed by a car actually is quite a bit higher than their risk of being murdered. Thus it is unsurprising that many white people in the city and lots of middle aged people of all races (on their own behalf and on behalf of minor children) are more concerned about car deaths than murders as it's something that impacts them more directly.

Source fo homicide victim data: https://cjcc.dc.gov/sites/default/files/dc/sites/cjcc/release_content/attachments/DC%20Gun%20Violence%20Problem%20Analysis%20Summary%20Report.pdf

Sorry that should say that 70% are under age 35 -- not 10%.

It would be great if we have Vision Zero for murder or even just child murder. Maybe if they were white, then people would care?