AI for essays

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids will (and should) use AI regardless of what these gatekeepers say. F 'em! The right way to use AI is not "Hey ChatGPT, write me an essay" and cut and paste. Interact with the software, ask for ideas, ask how your personality and interests may align with your educational and career goals. Ask multiple times, ask multiple AI and see what ideas you like. Combine all that content and *write your own damn essay*. At this point it should be about editing content the software spit out to read like how you would write it. Once you have written it run it through AI again and ask it to edit for readability and flow. Only accept changes that you like and sound like you. Remember, the personal statement is not a grammar test. "Whatcha talkin 'bout Willis" is perfectly good grammar for this exercise.

Seems easier to just get a "50 successful admissions essays" book to copy ideas from.

Essays only convey information that allows AO to apply their discrimination preferences (legacy, wealth, racial). People just can't handle the reality of not knowing, they attribute all variance from known stats in admission outcomes to "essay quality".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know some admissions officers and THEY WILL KNOW. Don't let that be the reason your child doesn't get into a school.

No, they won't.

I'm a high school English teacher at a school where wealthy parents routinely pay "consultants" to write their child's application essays for them. The results are obviously formulaic in a way that is clearly not the work of a high school student, but admissions officers don't care. The (academically average and below-average) kids routinely gain admission to Ivies and other top schools. The admissions officers also don't care about the fake activities and profiles these "consultants" create. These kids' parents successfully purchase admission to top colleges every year.

There's nothing I can do if I want to keep a job. But the whole process for the super wealthy is not the same as what normal kids understand.

I went to Harvard, and I was not from a wealthy or influential family, and these kinds of kids were there in my time as well.

I think what happens is all submitted essays will be elevated, and there won’t be any really crappy essays anymore. Which means they’ll probably start to count for less and less in the rubric/review process; it will end up being less about the writing and more about the story.

I'm the PP. I maintain that they don't count for a certain elite (but not so elite as you would expect) level of socioeconomic student anyway at the current time, and haven't for many years, if ever.

But, OK, for the rest of the kids, I see what you mean. And I think that the only way to ensure any kind of integrity in the essay process moving forward would be for colleges to introduce a timed, proctored exam format, like what we do for AP exams. Kids could go to a test center, receive a choice of previously unseen prompts, and write their essay under the supervision of proctors, a bit like an AP English exam composition. That is the only way to ensure the work is original in our current world, I think. Perhaps this will be the future. Otherwise, I don't see the point of a required essay submission when we know the majority of kids are not writing these themselves.

Your reasoning is wrong.
The essay isn’t to test for writing skill. It’s about revealing the applicant’s story/experiences. It’s the second part of holistic admissions after extracurriculars.

The essay is still helpful - but just like Duke is no longer reviewing essays for writing ability, they are still relevant to explain a narrative arc, candidate profile, diversity experiences.

So the story becomes more important and not the writing skill. Another way to accomplish this is a required video or interview.

And I think that it’s already happened - meaning increased focus on the “story” and not the skill.

And that’s why you see so many more URM/1st gen candidates getting in to T20, notwithstanding sometimes less impressive essays (in fact, overly impressive or wordsmithed essays now look too privileged)….

This will never happen. There are too many applicants and DCUM doesn’t want to believe it but the AO doesn’t care that much. What will happen is that AI will eventually take over admissions and scan all applicants. It will essentially all become a lottery. There may not even be GPA requirements in the future since they are becoming less meaningful.

It's funny that you think this hasn't already happened.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:On a related topic, do you think any AO will care if say Counselors at large public schools use AI to write recommendations?

Some counselors have to write 200-500 recommendations and don't really know 90%+ of the students.

I can see them slapping some stats and student interests into AI and then having it spit out a 5 paragraph recommendation letter.

They are already using the AI LOR form /bot on collegevine.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know some admissions officers and THEY WILL KNOW. Don't let that be the reason your child doesn't get into a school.

No, they won't.

I'm a high school English teacher at a school where wealthy parents routinely pay "consultants" to write their child's application essays for them. The results are obviously formulaic in a way that is clearly not the work of a high school student, but admissions officers don't care. The (academically average and below-average) kids routinely gain admission to Ivies and other top schools. The admissions officers also don't care about the fake activities and profiles these "consultants" create. These kids' parents successfully purchase admission to top colleges every year.

There's nothing I can do if I want to keep a job. But the whole process for the super wealthy is not the same as what normal kids understand.

I went to Harvard, and I was not from a wealthy or influential family, and these kinds of kids were there in my time as well.

I think what happens is all submitted essays will be elevated, and there won’t be any really crappy essays anymore. Which means they’ll probably start to count for less and less in the rubric/review process; it will end up being less about the writing and more about the story.

I'm the PP. I maintain that they don't count for a certain elite (but not so elite as you would expect) level of socioeconomic student anyway at the current time, and haven't for many years, if ever.

But, OK, for the rest of the kids, I see what you mean. And I think that the only way to ensure any kind of integrity in the essay process moving forward would be for colleges to introduce a timed, proctored exam format, like what we do for AP exams. Kids could go to a test center, receive a choice of previously unseen prompts, and write their essay under the supervision of proctors, a bit like an AP English exam composition. That is the only way to ensure the work is original in our current world, I think. Perhaps this will be the future. Otherwise, I don't see the point of a required essay submission when we know the majority of kids are not writing these themselves.

Your reasoning is wrong.
The essay isn’t to test for writing skill. It’s about revealing the applicant’s story/experiences. It’s the second part of holistic admissions after extracurriculars.

The essay is still helpful - but just like Duke is no longer reviewing essays for writing ability, they are still relevant to explain a narrative arc, candidate profile, diversity experiences.

So the story becomes more important and not the writing skill. Another way to accomplish this is a required video or interview.

And I think that it’s already happened - meaning increased focus on the “story” and not the skill.

And that’s why you see so many more URM/1st gen candidates getting in to T20, notwithstanding sometimes less impressive essays (in fact, overly impressive or wordsmithed essays now look too privileged)….

This will never happen. There are too many applicants and DCUM doesn’t want to believe it but the AO doesn’t care that much. What will happen is that AI will eventually take over admissions and scan all applicants. It will essentially all become a lottery. There may not even be GPA requirements in the future since they are becoming less meaningful.

It's funny that you think this hasn't already happened.

They use AI to scan for key features/ attributes/ experiences then they read those apps closely.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know some admissions officers and THEY WILL KNOW. Don't let that be the reason your child doesn't get into a school.

No, they won't.

I'm a high school English teacher at a school where wealthy parents routinely pay "consultants" to write their child's application essays for them. The results are obviously formulaic in a way that is clearly not the work of a high school student, but admissions officers don't care. The (academically average and below-average) kids routinely gain admission to Ivies and other top schools. The admissions officers also don't care about the fake activities and profiles these "consultants" create. These kids' parents successfully purchase admission to top colleges every year.

There's nothing I can do if I want to keep a job. But the whole process for the super wealthy is not the same as what normal kids understand.

I went to Harvard, and I was not from a wealthy or influential family, and these kinds of kids were there in my time as well.

I think what happens is all submitted essays will be elevated, and there won’t be any really crappy essays anymore. Which means they’ll probably start to count for less and less in the rubric/review process; it will end up being less about the writing and more about the story.

I'm the PP. I maintain that they don't count for a certain elite (but not so elite as you would expect) level of socioeconomic student anyway at the current time, and haven't for many years, if ever.

But, OK, for the rest of the kids, I see what you mean. And I think that the only way to ensure any kind of integrity in the essay process moving forward would be for colleges to introduce a timed, proctored exam format, like what we do for AP exams. Kids could go to a test center, receive a choice of previously unseen prompts, and write their essay under the supervision of proctors, a bit like an AP English exam composition. That is the only way to ensure the work is original in our current world, I think. Perhaps this will be the future. Otherwise, I don't see the point of a required essay submission when we know the majority of kids are not writing these themselves.

Your reasoning is wrong.
The essay isn’t to test for writing skill. It’s about revealing the applicant’s story/experiences. It’s the second part of holistic admissions after extracurriculars.

The essay is still helpful - but just like Duke is no longer reviewing essays for writing ability, they are still relevant to explain a narrative arc, candidate profile, diversity experiences.

So the story becomes more important and not the writing skill. Another way to accomplish this is a required video or interview.

And I think that it’s already happened - meaning increased focus on the “story” and not the skill.

And that’s why you see so many more URM/1st gen candidates getting in to T20, notwithstanding sometimes less impressive essays (in fact, overly impressive or wordsmithed essays now look too privileged)….

They are admitted bc of institutional priorities not because of their story.

Given Supreme Court ruling, that URM/FG hook is also fully conveyed in the story/essay.

Their story is not very important...their identity is. For example, if the school is looking for an URM and one applies with a poor essay/story, the student can still be admitted. Therefore, the essay and story is NOT why kids like this are being admitted over other kids. The _____ is why (race, talent, geographic location, parental lack of education, etc).

IME the URM with the best stories get in. Not always but usually. It’s in a colleges interest to admit URM/FG kids who will be able to cope/survive/thrive at the school when enrolled not just “get in”…

Volunteer with org to read some of these essays. The decent ones by URM do get in some places. The great ones by URM get in everywhere.

Since the AOs simply lack the information they need to make accurate decisions, they pick based on whatever in the application they find endearing. It can be as simple as mentioning a specific hobby or cultural reference that the essay reader also likes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kids will (and should) use AI regardless of what these gatekeepers say. F 'em! The right way to use AI is not "Hey ChatGPT, write me an essay" and cut and paste. Interact with the software, ask for ideas, ask how your personality and interests may align with your educational and career goals. Ask multiple times, ask multiple AI and see what ideas you like. Combine all that content and *write your own damn essay*. At this point it should be about editing content the software spit out to read like how you would write it. Once you have written it run it through AI again and ask it to edit for readability and flow. Only accept changes that you like and sound like you. Remember, the personal statement is not a grammar test. "Whatcha talkin 'bout Willis" is perfectly good grammar for this exercise.

So instead of writing a short essay, spend way more time going back and forth with AI to cobble one together?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know some admissions officers and THEY WILL KNOW. Don't let that be the reason your child doesn't get into a school.

No, they won't.

I'm a high school English teacher at a school where wealthy parents routinely pay "consultants" to write their child's application essays for them. The results are obviously formulaic in a way that is clearly not the work of a high school student, but admissions officers don't care. The (academically average and below-average) kids routinely gain admission to Ivies and other top schools. The admissions officers also don't care about the fake activities and profiles these "consultants" create. These kids' parents successfully purchase admission to top colleges every year.

There's nothing I can do if I want to keep a job. But the whole process for the super wealthy is not the same as what normal kids understand.

I went to Harvard, and I was not from a wealthy or influential family, and these kinds of kids were there in my time as well.

I think what happens is all submitted essays will be elevated, and there won’t be any really crappy essays anymore. Which means they’ll probably start to count for less and less in the rubric/review process; it will end up being less about the writing and more about the story.

I'm the PP. I maintain that they don't count for a certain elite (but not so elite as you would expect) level of socioeconomic student anyway at the current time, and haven't for many years, if ever.

But, OK, for the rest of the kids, I see what you mean. And I think that the only way to ensure any kind of integrity in the essay process moving forward would be for colleges to introduce a timed, proctored exam format, like what we do for AP exams. Kids could go to a test center, receive a choice of previously unseen prompts, and write their essay under the supervision of proctors, a bit like an AP English exam composition. That is the only way to ensure the work is original in our current world, I think. Perhaps this will be the future. Otherwise, I don't see the point of a required essay submission when we know the majority of kids are not writing these themselves.

Your reasoning is wrong.
The essay isn’t to test for writing skill. It’s about revealing the applicant’s story/experiences. It’s the second part of holistic admissions after extracurriculars.

The essay is still helpful - but just like Duke is no longer reviewing essays for writing ability, they are still relevant to explain a narrative arc, candidate profile, diversity experiences.

So the story becomes more important and not the writing skill. Another way to accomplish this is a required video or interview.

And I think that it’s already happened - meaning increased focus on the “story” and not the skill.

And that’s why you see so many more URM/1st gen candidates getting in to T20, notwithstanding sometimes less impressive essays (in fact, overly impressive or wordsmithed essays now look too privileged)….

They are admitted bc of institutional priorities not because of their story.

Given Supreme Court ruling, that URM/FG hook is also fully conveyed in the story/essay.

Their story is not very important...their identity is. For example, if the school is looking for an URM and one applies with a poor essay/story, the student can still be admitted. Therefore, the essay and story is NOT why kids like this are being admitted over other kids. The _____ is why (race, talent, geographic location, parental lack of education, etc).

IME the URM with the best stories get in. Not always but usually. It’s in a colleges interest to admit URM/FG kids who will be able to cope/survive/thrive at the school when enrolled not just “get in”…

Volunteer with org to read some of these essays. The decent ones by URM do get in some places. The great ones by URM get in everywhere.

Since the AOs simply lack the information they need to make accurate decisions, they pick based on whatever in the application they find endearing. It can be as simple as mentioning a specific hobby or cultural reference that the essay reader also likes.

This has always been true though.

[Anonymous]

Garbage in, garbage out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids will (and should) use AI regardless of what these gatekeepers say. F 'em! The right way to use AI is not "Hey ChatGPT, write me an essay" and cut and paste. Interact with the software, ask for ideas, ask how your personality and interests may align with your educational and career goals. Ask multiple times, ask multiple AI and see what ideas you like. Combine all that content and *write your own damn essay*. At this point it should be about editing content the software spit out to read like how you would write it. Once you have written it run it through AI again and ask it to edit for readability and flow. Only accept changes that you like and sound like you. Remember, the personal statement is not a grammar test. "Whatcha talkin 'bout Willis" is perfectly good grammar for this exercise.

So instead of writing a short essay, spend way more time going back and forth with AI to cobble one together?

According to the WSJ, generative AI skills are now an important skill to have…so you get a two-fer. You learn how to use ChatGPT well and you get your essay done.