What's benefit of going to TJ if the student can't rank very high in TJ?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Access to a wide variety of post-AP math and science courses

which are also available at most FCPS schools

Not true. TJ offers many courses like, Electrodynamics (post AP Physics C), Organic Chemistry (post AP Chem), Neurobiology (post AP Biology), Differential Equations (post Multivariable Calc), etc... that are not available at base schools.

TJ was established for providing such challenging courses. If students expect to take basic minimum graduation satisfying courses that are at the low end of TJ rigor scale, then staying back at base school might be a better option for workload management and accommodating extracurriculars.

Most kids, even at TJ, will not be on track to take those classes. Post AP Physics C means AP Physics C as a junior at the latest which means calc as a sophomore unless they want to take both at the same time which is not recommended by anyone other than Tiger Moms

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:They will have better teachers and peers.

Anonymous wrote:but will likely have a tough time getting into a state flagship like UVA since they are competing with their classmates for limited spots

These both depend on your base school. TJ in recent years has had roughly 33% of the class matriculate to UVA or similar (UMich, UCLA, Cal) or better (top-15 privates, etc.). That rate at McLean HS is more like 15%. I haven't tracked Langley but would expect it is similar. But for many HS FCPS, that local HS % is much lower. So you have to ask which bar you think is more likely to be achievable for your student if college admissions is a priority. Do you want to be a "bigger fish in a smaller pond"? But then you also are going to be faced with a smaller cohort of similar caliber students at most schools than you would at TJ or the high-SES HS, and likely significantly less advanced course offerings, extracurricular opportunities, etc. that have value in their own right and help prepare for college success. There's no one right answer here. But the delta between say TJ and McLean is probably smaller in both these regards than between say McLean and Lewis, etc.

The lowest ranked private college I saw on TJ's college admissions page has a 25% acceptance rate so even in the realm of private colleges, they clean up.

Can you please post the link to the page you reference above. Thanks,

Maybe true for privates. But plenty of TJ kids go to W&M, GMU, VCU.

Many families can not afford private or out of state schools.

Which is why, contrary to PP's claim, TJ kids end up at schools like JMU and VCU. If those families had money, the kid would be at an OOS flagship or a SLAC

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:One additional reason to go to TJ is if you are very academically inclined. In many FCPS HS, kids in sports are the cool kids and the academically inclined are looked down. At TJ, the academically inclined kids are not looked down - they might even be the cool kids.

Yeah, the kids that are USAMO are as popular as they want to be.
The kids that win science contests are as popular as they want to be.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Access to a wide variety of post-AP math and science courses

which are also available at most FCPS schools

Not true. TJ offers many courses like, Electrodynamics (post AP Physics C), Organic Chemistry (post AP Chem), Neurobiology (post AP Biology), Differential Equations (post Multivariable Calc), etc... that are not available at base schools.

TJ was established for providing such challenging courses. If students expect to take basic minimum graduation satisfying courses that are at the low end of TJ rigor scale, then staying back at base school might be a better option for workload management and accommodating extracurriculars.

DNA science too. There are a lot of courses at TJ that are not available in other schools including Langley.

TJ is very competitive in everything. Getting all As is not easy like other schools. Going to TJ you learn a lot, much deeper, work much harder and that level of education at a young age helps in their future.

Whether TJ is ranked 1st or 14th or whatever, people all over US and Ivys know the quality of kids coming from TJ

Thre comes a point where the quality of the students drops enough where the assumption of quality fades.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Access to a wide variety of post-AP math and science courses

which are also available at most FCPS schools

Not true. TJ offers many courses like, Electrodynamics (post AP Physics C), Organic Chemistry (post AP Chem), Neurobiology (post AP Biology), Differential Equations (post Multivariable Calc), etc... that are not available at base schools.

TJ was established for providing such challenging courses. If students expect to take basic minimum graduation satisfying courses that are at the low end of TJ rigor scale, then staying back at base school might be a better option for workload management and accommodating extracurriculars.

DNA science too. There are a lot of courses at TJ that are not available in other schools including Langley.

TJ is very competitive in everything. Getting all As is not easy like other schools. Going to TJ you learn a lot, much deeper, work much harder and that level of education at a young age helps in their future.

Whether TJ is ranked 1st or 14th or whatever, people all over US and Ivys know the quality of kids coming from TJ

Thre comes a point where the quality of the students drops enough where the assumption of quality fades.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but TJ isn't anywhere close to that happening.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Access to a wide variety of post-AP math and science courses

which are also available at most FCPS schools

Not true. TJ offers many courses like, Electrodynamics (post AP Physics C), Organic Chemistry (post AP Chem), Neurobiology (post AP Biology), Differential Equations (post Multivariable Calc), etc... that are not available at base schools.

TJ was established for providing such challenging courses. If students expect to take basic minimum graduation satisfying courses that are at the low end of TJ rigor scale, then staying back at base school might be a better option for workload management and accommodating extracurriculars.

DNA science too. There are a lot of courses at TJ that are not available in other schools including Langley.

TJ is very competitive in everything. Getting all As is not easy like other schools. Going to TJ you learn a lot, much deeper, work much harder and that level of education at a young age helps in their future.

Whether TJ is ranked 1st or 14th or whatever, people all over US and Ivys know the quality of kids coming from TJ

Thre comes a point where the quality of the students drops enough where the assumption of quality fades.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but TJ isn't anywhere close to that happening.

Not yet, no because the data hasn't really filtered through yet.
The TJ reputation will carry them for a while but at some point the TJ alumni will start to underperform previous generations of TJ alumni and this will change the the assumptions that colleges make about TJ students. I am sure Tj will continue to be the most competitive high school in Virginia but it won't have the national reputation it enjoys now.

The PSAT scores dropped 100 points. I expect SAT and ACT scores to follow suit.
There are kids failing SOLs, this is pretty new to TJ.
The number of advanced pass for classes like algebra 1 went from 70% to 29%; geometry went from 73%; and algebra 2 went from 63% to 53% in 2021 to 42% in 2022. Those numbers went up for most schools between 2021 and 2022 because we were back from covid.
TJ is still clearly has very good students but it is not as consistently as good as their current reputation would indicate.


I expect that if they haven't changed back to a merit based system in the next 4 years, we will see a shift in sentiment.

[Anonymous]

As much as I hate the woke admissions changes, I do not think TJ would be impacted.

There is enough randomness in the admissions process that it probably catches maybe 50% - 70% of the students who should be at TJ. They are of sufficient number that TJ clubs and academics would still of very high quality.

The main impact is to academically gifted students who by randomness of the process were not selected.

Yes even in previous years not all gifted students were selected but the current process was engineered to select more randomly. That is the insanity.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am trying to understand the good and bad side of going to TJ.
DC is very good at math and love science. But his English is so so and not very interested social study.
Should I push him on English and social study to get into TJ? Or just let him enjoy what he really likes?

Sanctuary for nerds. If DC is not a nerd, then it doesn't make sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Access to a wide variety of post-AP math and science courses

which are also available at most FCPS schools

Not true. TJ offers many courses like, Electrodynamics (post AP Physics C), Organic Chemistry (post AP Chem), Neurobiology (post AP Biology), Differential Equations (post Multivariable Calc), etc... that are not available at base schools.

TJ was established for providing such challenging courses. If students expect to take basic minimum graduation satisfying courses that are at the low end of TJ rigor scale, then staying back at base school might be a better option for workload management and accommodating extracurriculars.

DNA science too. There are a lot of courses at TJ that are not available in other schools including Langley.

TJ is very competitive in everything. Getting all As is not easy like other schools. Going to TJ you learn a lot, much deeper, work much harder and that level of education at a young age helps in their future.

Whether TJ is ranked 1st or 14th or whatever, people all over US and Ivys know the quality of kids coming from TJ

Thre comes a point where the quality of the students drops enough where the assumption of quality fades.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but TJ isn't anywhere close to that happening.

Not yet, no because the data hasn't really filtered through yet.
The TJ reputation will carry them for a while but at some point the TJ alumni will start to underperform previous generations of TJ alumni and this will change the the assumptions that colleges make about TJ students. I am sure Tj will continue to be the most competitive high school in Virginia but it won't have the national reputation it enjoys now.

The PSAT scores dropped 100 points. I expect SAT and ACT scores to follow suit.
There are kids failing SOLs, this is pretty new to TJ.
The number of advanced pass for classes like algebra 1 went from 70% to 29%; geometry went from 73%; and algebra 2 went from 63% to 53% in 2021 to 42% in 2022. Those numbers went up for most schools between 2021 and 2022 because we were back from covid.
TJ is still clearly has very good students but it is not as consistently as good as their current reputation would indicate.


I expect that if they haven't changed back to a merit based system in the next 4 years, we will see a shift in sentiment.

Oh my god, scores fluctuating over time?! Gah, sound the alarms! Let's all circle back and chat in 5 years when we have more data to pull from (that's a larger N for all you non-science kids) and can make (more confident) statements about correlations between admissions and outcomes. In the meantime, we could also stop perpetuating untruths. For example:

-Nobody at TJ failed a SOL this year. It was in the principal's last email.
-Algebra SOL scores wouldn't be reported at TJ since they had to have taken it prior to starting 9th grade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As much as I hate the woke admissions changes, I do not think TJ would be impacted.

There is enough randomness in the admissions process that it probably catches maybe 50% - 70% of the students who should be at TJ. They are of sufficient number that TJ clubs and academics would still of very high quality.

The main impact is to academically gifted students who by randomness of the process were not selected.

Yes even in previous years not all gifted students were selected but the current process was engineered to select more randomly. That is the insanity.

I think 50-70% is highly optimistic. I think it's probably 33-50%

TJ class of 2025 will have lower sat scores. I would bet my next paycheck on that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Access to a wide variety of post-AP math and science courses

which are also available at most FCPS schools

Not true. TJ offers many courses like, Electrodynamics (post AP Physics C), Organic Chemistry (post AP Chem), Neurobiology (post AP Biology), Differential Equations (post Multivariable Calc), etc... that are not available at base schools.

TJ was established for providing such challenging courses. If students expect to take basic minimum graduation satisfying courses that are at the low end of TJ rigor scale, then staying back at base school might be a better option for workload management and accommodating extracurriculars.

DNA science too. There are a lot of courses at TJ that are not available in other schools including Langley.

TJ is very competitive in everything. Getting all As is not easy like other schools. Going to TJ you learn a lot, much deeper, work much harder and that level of education at a young age helps in their future.

Whether TJ is ranked 1st or 14th or whatever, people all over US and Ivys know the quality of kids coming from TJ

Thre comes a point where the quality of the students drops enough where the assumption of quality fades.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but TJ isn't anywhere close to that happening.

Not yet, no because the data hasn't really filtered through yet.
The TJ reputation will carry them for a while but at some point the TJ alumni will start to underperform previous generations of TJ alumni and this will change the the assumptions that colleges make about TJ students. I am sure Tj will continue to be the most competitive high school in Virginia but it won't have the national reputation it enjoys now.

The PSAT scores dropped 100 points. I expect SAT and ACT scores to follow suit.
There are kids failing SOLs, this is pretty new to TJ.
The number of advanced pass for classes like algebra 1 went from 70% to 29%; geometry went from 73%; and algebra 2 went from 63% to 53% in 2021 to 42% in 2022. Those numbers went up for most schools between 2021 and 2022 because we were back from covid.
TJ is still clearly has very good students but it is not as consistently as good as their current reputation would indicate.


I expect that if they haven't changed back to a merit based system in the next 4 years, we will see a shift in sentiment.

Oh my god, scores fluctuating over time?! Gah, sound the alarms! Let's all circle back and chat in 5 years when we have more data to pull from (that's a larger N for all you non-science kids) and can make (more confident) statements about correlations between admissions and outcomes. In the meantime, we could also stop perpetuating untruths. For example:

-Nobody at TJ failed a SOL this year. It was in the principal's last email.
-Algebra SOL scores wouldn't be reported at TJ since they had to have taken it prior to starting 9th grade.

Actually they don't fluctuate. Not this much. A 100 point drop in PSAT score is not a fluctuation.
We already have 3 years of data and the drop off in test scores is pretty dramatic.

I thought the principal's email said that 100% passed algebra.
I thought you could take algebra at TJ if your placement test said you should take algebra again.
Anyways here are the SOL results for every school in Virginia.
https://www.doe.virginia.gov/data-policy-funding/data-reports/statistics-reports/sol-test-pass-rates-other-results
Click on the 2022-2023 school test by test results and scroll down to Thomas Jefferson High for Science and Technology
See the 2021 pass and advance pass rates and then see the 2021-2022 and 2022-2023 pass and advance pass rates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am trying to understand the good and bad side of going to TJ.
DC is very good at math and love science. But his English is so so and not very interested social study.
Should I push him on English and social study to get into TJ? Or just let him enjoy what he really likes?

Sanctuary for nerds. If DC is not a nerd, then it doesn't make sense.

This is exactly what I am talking about. Idiots like this poster and their kids who have similar attitude are all at base HS.

You can be academically good at TJ and not be looked down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Access to a wide variety of post-AP math and science courses

which are also available at most FCPS schools

Not true. TJ offers many courses like, Electrodynamics (post AP Physics C), Organic Chemistry (post AP Chem), Neurobiology (post AP Biology), Differential Equations (post Multivariable Calc), etc... that are not available at base schools.

TJ was established for providing such challenging courses. If students expect to take basic minimum graduation satisfying courses that are at the low end of TJ rigor scale, then staying back at base school might be a better option for workload management and accommodating extracurriculars.

DNA science too. There are a lot of courses at TJ that are not available in other schools including Langley.

TJ is very competitive in everything. Getting all As is not easy like other schools. Going to TJ you learn a lot, much deeper, work much harder and that level of education at a young age helps in their future.

Whether TJ is ranked 1st or 14th or whatever, people all over US and Ivys know the quality of kids coming from TJ

Thre comes a point where the quality of the students drops enough where the assumption of quality fades.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but TJ isn't anywhere close to that happening.

Not yet, no because the data hasn't really filtered through yet.
The TJ reputation will carry them for a while but at some point the TJ alumni will start to underperform previous generations of TJ alumni and this will change the the assumptions that colleges make about TJ students. I am sure Tj will continue to be the most competitive high school in Virginia but it won't have the national reputation it enjoys now.

The PSAT scores dropped 100 points. I expect SAT and ACT scores to follow suit.
There are kids failing SOLs, this is pretty new to TJ.
The number of advanced pass for classes like algebra 1 went from 70% to 29%; geometry went from 73%; and algebra 2 went from 63% to 53% in 2021 to 42% in 2022. Those numbers went up for most schools between 2021 and 2022 because we were back from covid.
TJ is still clearly has very good students but it is not as consistently as good as their current reputation would indicate.


I expect that if they haven't changed back to a merit based system in the next 4 years, we will see a shift in sentiment.

Oh my god, scores fluctuating over time?! Gah, sound the alarms! Let's all circle back and chat in 5 years when we have more data to pull from (that's a larger N for all you non-science kids) and can make (more confident) statements about correlations between admissions and outcomes. In the meantime, we could also stop perpetuating untruths. For example:

-Nobody at TJ failed a SOL this year. It was in the principal's last email.
-Algebra SOL scores wouldn't be reported at TJ since they had to have taken it prior to starting 9th grade.

Actually they don't fluctuate. Not this much. A 100 point drop in PSAT score is not a fluctuation.
We already have 3 years of data and the drop off in test scores is pretty dramatic.

I thought the principal's email said that 100% passed algebra.
I thought you could take algebra at TJ if your placement test said you should take algebra again.
Anyways here are the SOL results for every school in Virginia.
https://www.doe.virginia.gov/data-policy-funding/data-reports/statistics-reports/sol-test-pass-rates-other-results
Click on the 2022-2023 school test by test results and scroll down to Thomas Jefferson High for Science and Technology
See the 2021 pass and advance pass rates and then see the 2021-2022 and 2022-2023 pass and advance pass rates.

TJ admission requires GPA> 3.5 for all core courses, i.e., all above A-.
For 2021 admission FCPS website: " At 3.9, the average GPA for applicants is higher this year than it has been in the past five years. The average GPA for students offered admission remains extremely high at more than 3.95."
https://www.fcps.edu/news/tjhsst-offers-admission-550-students-broadens-access-students-who-have-aptitude-stem
For 2022 admission," The average GPA for students offered admission to the Class of ‘26 is 3.9558"
https://www.fcps.edu/news/thomas-jefferson-high-school-continues-increase-access-all

I assume students admitted are good learners. But based on the data in the link PP provided, TJ students' performance is not as good as expected. This is hard to understand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Access to a wide variety of post-AP math and science courses

which are also available at most FCPS schools

Not true. TJ offers many courses like, Electrodynamics (post AP Physics C), Organic Chemistry (post AP Chem), Neurobiology (post AP Biology), Differential Equations (post Multivariable Calc), etc... that are not available at base schools.

TJ was established for providing such challenging courses. If students expect to take basic minimum graduation satisfying courses that are at the low end of TJ rigor scale, then staying back at base school might be a better option for workload management and accommodating extracurriculars.

DNA science too. There are a lot of courses at TJ that are not available in other schools including Langley.

TJ is very competitive in everything. Getting all As is not easy like other schools. Going to TJ you learn a lot, much deeper, work much harder and that level of education at a young age helps in their future.

Whether TJ is ranked 1st or 14th or whatever, people all over US and Ivys know the quality of kids coming from TJ

Thre comes a point where the quality of the students drops enough where the assumption of quality fades.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but TJ isn't anywhere close to that happening.

Not yet, no because the data hasn't really filtered through yet.
The TJ reputation will carry them for a while but at some point the TJ alumni will start to underperform previous generations of TJ alumni and this will change the the assumptions that colleges make about TJ students. I am sure Tj will continue to be the most competitive high school in Virginia but it won't have the national reputation it enjoys now.

The PSAT scores dropped 100 points. I expect SAT and ACT scores to follow suit.
There are kids failing SOLs, this is pretty new to TJ.
The number of advanced pass for classes like algebra 1 went from 70% to 29%; geometry went from 73%; and algebra 2 went from 63% to 53% in 2021 to 42% in 2022. Those numbers went up for most schools between 2021 and 2022 because we were back from covid.
TJ is still clearly has very good students but it is not as consistently as good as their current reputation would indicate.


I expect that if they haven't changed back to a merit based system in the next 4 years, we will see a shift in sentiment.

TJ has students taking Algebra 1? I thought any students whose learning interests are in science nd technology should have the capability to take Algebra 1 HR in 7th grade .

[Anonymous]

According to a report, less than 20 Algebra1 students admitted, now 160+ after admissions change. Significant return to base school in freshman, and portion of those spots backfilled with froshmores.