CWRU in Madrid

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Kid received an offer to spend the Fall semester at CWRU in Madrid, before the Spring Semester at CWRU in Cleveland. The offer comes with merit scholarship for 8 semesters. All tuition and room & board pay to CWRU like usual, with the travel expenses to and from Madrid being the extra. Anyone has any experience in this?

This is similar to my DC's experience at W&M - study abroad first semester and start in January. At W&M, it's guaranteed spring admission if you do their partner study abroad program. The CWRU set-up sounds even more integrated. If CWRU is your child's first choice, I would do it in a heartbeat.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a freshman? Seems like odd timing. When I was in college, most people studied abroad junior year. Maybe it has to do with how the curriculum is structured in your child’s major?

I loved studying abroad and the city of Madrid and wouldn’t rule it out without strong consideration, especially since the tuition is the same.

"First semester freshman year abroad" is a thing a lot of schools are doing and I think it's to ease their freshman housing problems more than to benefit the students.

+1

Goodness gracious. Tell me you know nothing about college admissions today without telling me you know nothing about college admissions today.

study abroad can be cheaper all around, not just housing. in fact it’s a bit of a scam for them to charge normal tuition room & board when the costs are no doubt much lower.

when I was in college this actually worked out in my favor. my SLAC did not charge the difference between their tuition and an externally run study abroad program. I did a program administered by a smaller state college and saved around $15k!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a freshman? Seems like odd timing. When I was in college, most people studied abroad junior year. Maybe it has to do with how the curriculum is structured in your child’s major?

I loved studying abroad and the city of Madrid and wouldn’t rule it out without strong consideration, especially since the tuition is the same.

"First semester freshman year abroad" is a thing a lot of schools are doing and I think it's to ease their freshman housing problems more than to benefit the students.

+1

Goodness gracious. Tell me you know nothing about college admissions today without telling me you know nothing about college admissions today.

There was nothing in the OP that said they were unfamiliar with these kinds of programs

I'd want to know about the merit. Maybe this is a way to get a 5th year out of college if it comes to that? Or make up for some tuition monies that would have to be paid for summer coursework.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a relative who did first semester in Spain with a different school not knowing Spanish and they had a good experience— used it as a base for visiting all over Europe too (low cost airlines mean for $50 you can fly lots of places for the weekend and find a fun hostel)

I actually think it might be good timing for pre-med (if you want a semester abroad) because by junior year it may be difficult to go away and still meet all your requirements?

Actually the opposite for a pre-med bio major. The most important years are freshman and sophomore because those are the years you take the pre-med classes.
You actually get more liberty the final two years.

I would never do this (Madrid) as a pre-med major. People are talking about travel and fun and all that comes along with doing a semester abroad.
Pre-meds that are successful at matriculating to medical school (because statistically the vast majority are not) really have to put their nose to the grindstone out-of-the-gate freshman year. Sure, there are non-traditional students who decided junior year to go to medical school after studying French or modern dance but that is not most kids. If you want to go to medical school, you have to really, really focus on grades from the beginning of college. There is not much grace and your fellow students will be focusing on one thing: grades and medical school. Not finding the best night club and museum in Madrid and catching the next train to Barcelona.

This kids' peers (and eventual competition for getting into medical school from his undergrad class) at CWRU will be putting their noses down to the grindstone. I went to Case. It is a serious pre-med culture.

OTOH aren’t Spanish skills important in the medical field these days? The kid could get a leg up on internships back in the US serving a Spanish speaking population. Seems like the decision would turn on how much they want to go to CW and developing a plan to make up for any issues with missing premed coursework, like doing summer school.

sure, but frankly which medical school applicant doesn't have Spanish skills these days? I'm not joking. My brother sits on a medical school admissions committee and we were actually recently talking about this.
It's the most common foreign language AP and most of your pre-med population has reached the AP level in language in high school. Then many of these kids do study abroad to a Spanish speaking language country in college, volunteer in Spanish language clinics along the way, etc. It's. not really anything that helps an applicant stand out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have a relative who did first semester in Spain with a different school not knowing Spanish and they had a good experience— used it as a base for visiting all over Europe too (low cost airlines mean for $50 you can fly lots of places for the weekend and find a fun hostel)

I actually think it might be good timing for pre-med (if you want a semester abroad) because by junior year it may be difficult to go away and still meet all your requirements?

Actually the opposite for a pre-med bio major. The most important years are freshman and sophomore because those are the years you take the pre-med classes.
You actually get more liberty the final two years.

I would never do this (Madrid) as a pre-med major. People are talking about travel and fun and all that comes along with doing a semester abroad.
Pre-meds that are successful at matriculating to medical school (because statistically the vast majority are not) really have to put their nose to the grindstone out-of-the-gate freshman year. Sure, there are non-traditional students who decided junior year to go to medical school after studying French or modern dance but that is not most kids. If you want to go to medical school, you have to really, really focus on grades from the beginning of college. There is not much grace and your fellow students will be focusing on one thing: grades and medical school. Not finding the best night club and museum in Madrid and catching the next train to Barcelona.

This kids' peers (and eventual competition for getting into medical school from his undergrad class) at CWRU will be putting their noses down to the grindstone. I went to Case. It is a serious pre-med culture.

OTOH aren’t Spanish skills important in the medical field these days? The kid could get a leg up on internships back in the US serving a Spanish speaking population. Seems like the decision would turn on how much they want to go to CW and developing a plan to make up for any issues with missing premed coursework, like doing summer school.

sure, but frankly which medical school applicant doesn't have Spanish skills these days? I'm not joking. My brother sits on a medical school admissions committee and we were actually recently talking about this.
It's the most common foreign language AP and most of your pre-med population has reached the AP level in language in high school. Then many of these kids do study abroad to a Spanish speaking language country in college, volunteer in Spanish language clinics along the way, etc. It's. not really anything that helps an applicant stand out.

OTOH it looks like a necessary qualification, which OP’s child will be gaining out of the gate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a freshman? Seems like odd timing. When I was in college, most people studied abroad junior year. Maybe it has to do with how the curriculum is structured in your child’s major?

I loved studying abroad and the city of Madrid and wouldn’t rule it out without strong consideration, especially since the tuition is the same.

"First semester freshman year abroad" is a thing a lot of schools are doing and I think it's to ease their freshman housing problems more than to benefit the students.

+1

Goodness gracious. Tell me you know nothing about college admissions today without telling me you know nothing about college admissions today.

There was nothing in the OP that said they were unfamiliar with these kinds of programs

I'd want to know about the merit. Maybe this is a way to get a 5th year out of college if it comes to that? Or make up for some tuition monies that would have to be paid for summer coursework.

I think the “goodness gracious” remarks were directed at the person who thought a first semester study abroad was “odd,” not the OP. Anyone who’s paying attention to college admissions is aware this is not all that uncommon these days.

[Anonymous]

OP here. The merit scholarship brings the tuition of CWRU down to $39k a year. Pitt honors also has merits, but only $5k. So the two schools are close in terms of tuition. UIUC has yet to announce their merit scholarships. But at this stage it is more important for us to find the best fit in terms of academic rigors and peer group. Visited all campuses. Really like CWRU. Pitt is good too. Frankly UMass and Oberlin and VT have the best campuses. Without Madrid, will pick CWRU. But with Madrid it is harder to decide. Worry about falling behind and not fitting in.

[Anonymous]

These types of admissions are for the benefit of the University. Get to up key metrics such as students participating in study abroad programs and keep dorm rooms filled at as close to 100% capacity as possible.

So key question is does it work for your kid. They will have a small cohort to make friends which could be good or bad. Most likely will get a random room assignment in the Spring filling the slot of a freshman leaving after first semester or with an upperclassman whose roommate is doing a Spring study abroad.

So consider the social aspects as well as what if any academic set back may occur.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:As a freshman? Seems like odd timing. When I was in college, most people studied abroad junior year. Maybe it has to do with how the curriculum is structured in your child’s major?

I loved studying abroad and the city of Madrid and wouldn’t rule it out without strong consideration, especially since the tuition is the same.

Looks like CWRU is copying other universities and has added a Spring start at CWRU that requires the student to attend a CWRU sponsored overseas/different location for fall freshman year. (A la Northeastern, they are the biggest at doing this).

[Anonymous]

Tulane does this in Italy and France. Too many students to fit in the campus. Not the best ways to start college away from main campus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. The merit scholarship brings the tuition of CWRU down to $39k a year. Pitt honors also has merits, but only $5k. So the two schools are close in terms of tuition. UIUC has yet to announce their merit scholarships. But at this stage it is more important for us to find the best fit in terms of academic rigors and peer group. Visited all campuses. Really like CWRU. Pitt is good too. Frankly UMass and Oberlin and VT have the best campuses. Without Madrid, will pick CWRU. But with Madrid it is harder to decide. Worry about falling behind and not fitting in.

39k is a great price. That includes r&b?

I get that it works for the school, but if you can make it work for you, great.

Freshman only meet a few dozen people in one semester. Doing that in Madrid instead of CW is possible

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Tulane does this in Italy and France. Too many students to fit in the campus. Not the best ways to start college away from main campus

How do they manage to fit when they come back from first semester abroad? Attrition? Seems unlikely it would be due to upperclassmen finishing up their degrees in first semester, as many of them would be living off campus anyway.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. The merit scholarship brings the tuition of CWRU down to $39k a year. Pitt honors also has merits, but only $5k. So the two schools are close in terms of tuition. UIUC has yet to announce their merit scholarships. But at this stage it is more important for us to find the best fit in terms of academic rigors and peer group. Visited all campuses. Really like CWRU. Pitt is good too. Frankly UMass and Oberlin and VT have the best campuses. Without Madrid, will pick CWRU. But with Madrid it is harder to decide. Worry about falling behind and not fitting in.

39k is a great price. That includes r&b?

I get that it works for the school, but if you can make it work for you, great.

Freshman only meet a few dozen people in one semester. Doing that in Madrid instead of CW is possible

Try to negotiate for more money, using being banished to Madrid as leverage.

[Anonymous]

I would not do if your student is premed. Most premed classes are two semester classes with the first semester offered only in the fall. At a minimum, your student should be talking chem this fall. If your kid doesn’t plan on taking a gap year between college and med school, all the premed prerequisites need to be taken by end of junior year, and there is generally not time for a semester abroad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My son is a first year at CWRU and he did not do his first semester in Madrid, I’m in a group with other first year parents, a few of whom had children participate in this program. This was the first year for the program so while there were some kinks to work out, most of the parents said their children enjoyed the experience. I think there were about 25 CWRU students this past fall.

However, there is one (annoyingly) vocal parent who has done nothing but complain about the program. Her child is premed and she says they are essentially behind a semester with the premed requirements because none is the Madrid classes count toward the premed requirements. I wouldn’t have expected those classes to count towards the premed requirements but who knows what she was told. She also complained about the food and the fact that her daughter didn’t have access to a kitchen to cook her own food.

I do take everything she says with a grain of salt but just wanted to put that out there. All of the other Madrid parents have been lovely.

It is likely true that the premed student is "behind". Since you cannot typically use AP credit for Med school prereqs. So your student cannot take Chem 101/102 and Bio 101/102 their freshman year if they are abroad. It also means you are not with your cohorts for the 4 years, since you are off base. You would essentially be a freshman again your sophomore year, unless CWRU offers a Chem and bio track starting in the spring (can't recall my kid was engineering when we considered CwRU)