Oregon's drug decriminalization failure

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm more than okay with not having to see people doing drugs in the street and htting me up for dollars.

+100. I am all for drug users who are using drugs in public and squatting on public property going to jail or some sort of involuntary confinement facility. Maybe they can have a separate jail for drug addicts so they are not incarcerated with murderers and get therapy.

[Anonymous]

I listened to the podcast and it sounds like the plan was not completely thought out or implemented as planned. I don't blame them for trying something different, hoping to get better results. Drug use and it's many negative consequences are a complex problem and there is no one-size-fits-all solution.

[Anonymous]

You need the carrot and the stick. Most drug addicts are going to refuse treatment.... because they are addicts. If they are never forced to get treatment, most won't.

In 2014 in California Proposition 47 removed the threat of jail for drug possession and theft under $950. Before then there were "drug courts" and offenders who were arrested for drug possession and/or theft had the option to go to jail or go to mandatory treatment. If you said you were going to go to treatment and didn't you had the threat of being arrested again and sent to jail.

Now there are no consequences, there is nothing there to push addicts to even attempt to get clean. Now add housing first to the mix and you can be a raging addict who is stealing from stores every day and you still get housing. What is the incentive to stop using?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:I’m not for decriminalizing drugs but I think addiction should be dealt with medical intervention. Criminal intervention isn’t working. America spends like $100 billion on illegal drugs; clearly “Just Say No” and police aren’t making a dent. We waste a lot of time and money on people who choose to destroy their lives with drugs. What’s your solution?

Did you even listen to the podcast or read the article?

I did read the article. As I stated, I don’t think drugs should be decriminalized. The War on Drugs didn’t work nor did decriminalization. I think conservatives are just for putting people into jail so you don’t have to see them (homeless drug addicts). But we have too many criminals in jail and no one wants to be a corrections officer.

Currently, nothing is working! So what’s the controversy in my posts?!

So if "nothing is working," why are you upset about going back to the status quo?

Because our jails are full and there is a hiring crisis for correction officers. Why do you care if people overdose in jail vs outside of jail?

It should be obvious why it's preferable to have something ugly and traumatic like overdosing happening where there's a small/contained audience versus out on the street in front a broad, public audience that includes children......Common sense really is not common.

Yes, it is astonishing that the progressive left decriminalization people believe that it’s better for addicts to die on the cold streets without access to any healthcare than in a jail where there is at least some form of healthcare and a roof. Simply crazy.

Look the idea that you think there is healthcare in prison is comical! I’m arguing this because I have a sibling who has been a CO in three states. Prisons right now are a total sh*tshow. Staffing rates are so low they don’t have the ability to get prisoners to the hospital.

So you believe addicts dying on the cold streets is preferable to dying in jail? Why?

The horror of dying in jail is that if you are ignored you have absolutely no way to so much as crawl for help. Surely that's obvious.

So you prefer addicts die on the cold open street than in jail, where at least there is a roof over their head. That’s not a position a lot of people can understand, just so you know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The New York Times the Daily did a deep dive on how Oregon's drug decriminalization experiment has fantastically backfired. Did anyone hear it?

This article, which was the basis for the podcast, goes into more details: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/01/us/oregon-drug-decriminalization-rollback-measure-110.html

Three years ago, when Oregon voters approved a pioneering plan to decriminalize hard drugs, advocates looking to halt the jailing of drug users believed they were on the edge of a revolution that would soon sweep across the country.

But even as the state’s landmark law took effect in 2021, the scourge of fentanyl was taking hold. Overdoses soared as the state stumbled in its efforts to fund enhanced treatment programs. And while many other downtowns emerged from the dark days of the pandemic, Portland continued to struggle, with scenes of drugs and despair.

Lately, even some of the liberal politicians who had embraced a new approach to drugs have supported an end to the experiment. On Friday, a bill that will reimpose criminal penalties for possession of some drugs won final passage in the State Legislature and was headed next to Gov. Tina Kotek, who has expressed alarm about open drug use and helped broker a plan to ban such activity.

My question is: At what point will the progressive wing get the hint that unleashing chaos in cities, counties, school districts and states by going lax on all things related to public safety is a losing strategy? Who is having that difficult conversation with the activists who are pushing for these ridiculous policies that inevitably fail and have to be pulled back? Real people are harmed by these stunts and it's not ok.

The progressive left will never admit it was wrong. Never. It isn’t going to happen for all the children and young adults whose lives they destroyed by the horror of the gender affirmative “care” scandal. (And they’ll never apologize to the brave clinicians and medical providers whose careers were destroyed when they tried to raise the alarm.) And it’s not going to happen here. The progressive left will never admit that their drug decriminalization policies have killed thousands and thousands of people, especially vulnerable young people. They will never admit that they’ve created a generation of hollow husks of humans whose brains will never recover from the poisons that the progressive left made available to them.

Have any progressives championing decriminalization ever actually seen the inside of a “safe” (what Orwellian doublespeak) injection site? They are rooms that belong in a Halloween horror show, not something to be paraded around as a twisted victory of progressive politics.

I live in California. I know dead teens who would not be dead if entitled radical progressives hadn’t taken over the west coast states. To say I am angry at them is an understatement.

+100
We have family in Portland who cannot move fast enough. The problem? They can't find a buyer for their house. No one in their right mind wants to live in these cesspools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The New York Times the Daily did a deep dive on how Oregon's drug decriminalization experiment has fantastically backfired. Did anyone hear it?

This article, which was the basis for the podcast, goes into more details: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/01/us/oregon-drug-decriminalization-rollback-measure-110.html

Three years ago, when Oregon voters approved a pioneering plan to decriminalize hard drugs, advocates looking to halt the jailing of drug users believed they were on the edge of a revolution that would soon sweep across the country.

But even as the state’s landmark law took effect in 2021, the scourge of fentanyl was taking hold. Overdoses soared as the state stumbled in its efforts to fund enhanced treatment programs. And while many other downtowns emerged from the dark days of the pandemic, Portland continued to struggle, with scenes of drugs and despair.

Lately, even some of the liberal politicians who had embraced a new approach to drugs have supported an end to the experiment. On Friday, a bill that will reimpose criminal penalties for possession of some drugs won final passage in the State Legislature and was headed next to Gov. Tina Kotek, who has expressed alarm about open drug use and helped broker a plan to ban such activity.

My question is: At what point will the progressive wing get the hint that unleashing chaos in cities, counties, school districts and states by going lax on all things related to public safety is a losing strategy? Who is having that difficult conversation with the activists who are pushing for these ridiculous policies that inevitably fail and have to be pulled back? Real people are harmed by these stunts and it's not ok.

The progressive left will never admit it was wrong. Never. It isn’t going to happen for all the children and young adults whose lives they destroyed by the horror of the gender affirmative “care” scandal. (And they’ll never apologize to the brave clinicians and medical providers whose careers were destroyed when they tried to raise the alarm.) And it’s not going to happen here. The progressive left will never admit that their drug decriminalization policies have killed thousands and thousands of people, especially vulnerable young people. They will never admit that they’ve created a generation of hollow husks of humans whose brains will never recover from the poisons that the progressive left made available to them.

Have any progressives championing decriminalization ever actually seen the inside of a “safe” (what Orwellian doublespeak) injection site? They are rooms that belong in a Halloween horror show, not something to be paraded around as a twisted victory of progressive politics.

I live in California. I know dead teens who would not be dead if entitled radical progressives hadn’t taken over the west coast states. To say I am angry at them is an understatement.

+100
We have family in Portland who cannot move fast enough. The problem? They can't find a buyer for their house. No one in their right mind wants to live in these cesspools.

I watch Portland real estate and you can definitely get some bargains now. Of course you have to be okay with drug addicts passing out on your front door.

[Anonymous]

There have always been a subset of people who, for whatever reason, just can’t function responsibly in society and most of them have no desire to do so. You just can’t help people who don’t want the be helped.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There have always been a subset of people who, for whatever reason, just can’t function responsibly in society and most of them have no desire to do so. You just can’t help people who don’t want the be helped.

The problem is addicts. No one who is physiologically dependent on a substance - whether its alcohol or fentanyl or meth - can think rationally. Avoiding the abject misery of withdrawal is what guides their lives. Not reason. Not their well-being. Not their community. Nothing. They need their hit and they need it now and they'll do anything to get it. No one wants to live like that. But addiction takes hold and it's an awful thing.

Progressives, unfortunately, have enabled the downward cycle of so many hundreds of thousands of people in cities across the country. Effectively legalizing fentanyl and tranq and other hard drugs has been disastrous, both for cities like Portland and SF as well as for the addicts themselves. Drug courts worked. It takes anywhere from three months to a year for a brain to heal from addiction. Until then, an addict is incapable of thinking clearly and calmly. Drug courts gave addicts two options - jail or treatment. But one way or another, they are going to detox. They can do it the hard way or the easy way. But those are the only options.

It gave addicts a chance. And it gives communities a respite from the depressing mayhem that active addiction causes. More policing is better for the addicts. Tougher judges is better for the addicts. It gets them off the streets, where they will die anyway. Progressives have completely lost the plot. The left is very much a cause of the blight and sadness that have beset so many communities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have always been a subset of people who, for whatever reason, just can’t function responsibly in society and most of them have no desire to do so. You just can’t help people who don’t want the be helped.

The problem is addicts. No one who is physiologically dependent on a substance - whether its alcohol or fentanyl or meth - can think rationally. Avoiding the abject misery of withdrawal is what guides their lives. Not reason. Not their well-being. Not their community. Nothing. They need their hit and they need it now and they'll do anything to get it. No one wants to live like that. But addiction takes hold and it's an awful thing.

Progressives, unfortunately, have enabled the downward cycle of so many hundreds of thousands of people in cities across the country. Effectively legalizing fentanyl and tranq and other hard drugs has been disastrous, both for cities like Portland and SF as well as for the addicts themselves. Drug courts worked. It takes anywhere from three months to a year for a brain to heal from addiction. Until then, an addict is incapable of thinking clearly and calmly. Drug courts gave addicts two options - jail or treatment. But one way or another, they are going to detox. They can do it the hard way or the easy way. But those are the only options.

It gave addicts a chance. And it gives communities a respite from the depressing mayhem that active addiction causes. More policing is better for the addicts. Tougher judges is better for the addicts. It gets them off the streets, where they will die anyway. Progressives have completely lost the plot. The left is very much a cause of the blight and sadness that have beset so many communities.

I agree but the depressing thing is that I am not sure drug courts work for fentanyl addiction. Nothing does. Maybe it at least gets them off the streets though.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not for decriminalizing drugs but I think addiction should be dealt with medical intervention. Criminal intervention isn’t working. America spends like $100 billion on illegal drugs; clearly “Just Say No” and police aren’t making a dent. We waste a lot of time and money on people who choose to destroy their lives with drugs. What’s your solution?

Did you even listen to the podcast or read the article?

I did read the article. As I stated, I don’t think drugs should be decriminalized. The War on Drugs didn’t work nor did decriminalization. I think conservatives are just for putting people into jail so you don’t have to see them (homeless drug addicts). But we have too many criminals in jail and no one wants to be a corrections officer.

Currently, nothing is working! So what’s the controversy in my posts?!

My issue is that you assume there is a government administered cure for the human condition, but it just hasn't been found yet. We can't fix this issue. We can only minimize the damage done from it, by isolating the issue. And the only means we have to do that is prisons. I'd also be open to sending them to an Island, like how Australia came to be. That worked well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There have always been a subset of people who, for whatever reason, just can’t function responsibly in society and most of them have no desire to do so. You just can’t help people who don’t want the be helped.

The problem is addicts. No one who is physiologically dependent on a substance - whether its alcohol or fentanyl or meth - can think rationally. Avoiding the abject misery of withdrawal is what guides their lives. Not reason. Not their well-being. Not their community. Nothing. They need their hit and they need it now and they'll do anything to get it. No one wants to live like that. But addiction takes hold and it's an awful thing.

Progressives, unfortunately, have enabled the downward cycle of so many hundreds of thousands of people in cities across the country. Effectively legalizing fentanyl and tranq and other hard drugs has been disastrous, both for cities like Portland and SF as well as for the addicts themselves. Drug courts worked. It takes anywhere from three months to a year for a brain to heal from addiction. Until then, an addict is incapable of thinking clearly and calmly. Drug courts gave addicts two options - jail or treatment. But one way or another, they are going to detox. They can do it the hard way or the easy way. But those are the only options.

It gave addicts a chance. And it gives communities a respite from the depressing mayhem that active addiction causes. More policing is better for the addicts. Tougher judges is better for the addicts. It gets them off the streets, where they will die anyway. Progressives have completely lost the plot. The left is very much a cause of the blight and sadness that have beset so many communities.

You didn’t read the article. It clearly stated that decriminalizing didn’t cause the problem. There were other factors that caused it.

Stop blaming the progressive left for this. The right votes down any kind of healthcare, subsidized housing, or social program. The right turns their backs to folks in need and actively seeks to hurt people with their legislation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I listened to the podcast and it sounds like the plan was not completely thought out or implemented as planned. I don't blame them for trying something different, hoping to get better results. Drug use and it's many negative consequences are a complex problem and there is no one-size-fits-all solution.

This. Listen to the podcast.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm more than okay with not having to see people doing drugs in the street and htting me up for dollars.

+100. I am all for drug users who are using drugs in public and squatting on public property going to jail or some sort of involuntary confinement facility. Maybe they can have a separate jail for drug addicts so they are not incarcerated with murderers and get therapy.

You could even make it kinda nice, or at least nicer than the streets. It would still end up being way cheaper than dealing with the uncontrolled consequences we currently face.

[Anonymous]

Okay, but what about alcohol? Should any drugs be legalized? Obviously, fentanyl is terrible and should probably not be, but what about drugs that don’t cause you to overdose like weed, mushrooms, etc? If not, what’s your solution? Continue to fight a losing battle with cartels and lock anyone doing drugs in prison? Seems like a middle ground here would be helpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m not for decriminalizing drugs but I think addiction should be dealt with medical intervention. Criminal intervention isn’t working. America spends like $100 billion on illegal drugs; clearly “Just Say No” and police aren’t making a dent. We waste a lot of time and money on people who choose to destroy their lives with drugs. What’s your solution?

Did you even listen to the podcast or read the article?

I did read the article. As I stated, I don’t think drugs should be decriminalized. The War on Drugs didn’t work nor did decriminalization. I think conservatives are just for putting people into jail so you don’t have to see them (homeless drug addicts). But we have too many criminals in jail and no one wants to be a corrections officer.

Currently, nothing is working! So what’s the controversy in my posts?!

So if "nothing is working," why are you upset about going back to the status quo?

Because our jails are full and there is a hiring crisis for correction officers. Why do you care if people overdose in jail vs outside of jail?

It should be obvious why it's preferable to have something ugly and traumatic like overdosing happening where there's a small/contained audience versus out on the street in front a broad, public audience that includes children......Common sense really is not common.

Yes, it is astonishing that the progressive left decriminalization people believe that it’s better for addicts to die on the cold streets without access to any healthcare than in a jail where there is at least some form of healthcare and a roof. Simply crazy.

If only Reagan hadn’t closed all the institutions where perhaps people could have been cared for and safe while serving something of a sentence.