ACPS Shortest Day

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you think being a teacher is so great, come and do it. We have tons of openings. Surely there’s no good reason we’re all quitting.

The other classic retort - "you should just be a teacher." Absolutely minimizing that anyone who highlights the benefits of being a teacher may actually be in public service themselves. Social workers, public health workers, prosecutors, sanitation workers, public defenders, et al.

So, are teachers quitting over pay or something else? If it is pay, what hourly rate would it take? If it is "something else" - what is that?

The response to highlighting the hourly rate of pay has been puzzling - how is it an "attack on teachers" to highlight a rate of pay commensurate to other public service career fields.

The fact that social workers, prosecutors, and public defenders are underpaid doesn't mean that teachers are therefore overpaid. That you don't see the logical fallacy in your argument is astounding.

Many are underpaid - this is not a teacher-specific problem and the point of the post. I never implied that teachers were overpaid - just that pay was similar to or possibly more than other educated public servants do jobs also beneficial to society. Nevertheless, the market demand for teachers may change this. Fair enough.

A 4 day school week may be the answer, but what a way to force women out of the labor market. I guess it would incentivize teaching for those women, so it may just be a panacea.

Yes, you did imply they were overpaid. So you're either trying to walk back your bullshit argument or are too arrogant to admit you were wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I predict in the next decade that even urban areas will be going to 4 day school weeks or go towards shorter school days. There won't be enough $$ to pay staff enough to retain them. Staff won't be willing to stay in the conditions that are present. One solution will be to go 4 days a week or 5-5.5 hour days. Think it won't happen in your area? Think again. My school hosts student observers and student teachers. Most of the staff have been actively encouraging them to change majors. We don't have to twist their arms though once they see what it’s really like.

I absolutely agree that it’s likely to happen. Local businesses and possibly counties will step in to provide childcare on the fifth day. Some people will love it, others will hate it.

1) Where will the county money come from - the same taxpayers who pay the teachers?
2) Who will provide the childcare? Hourly childcare workers are, also, difficult to hire and employ these days.

The realities of the US economy is work is structured around a 5-day school week ( ie a stock market week / banking days) where people can be relieved of oppressive childcare costs once kids reach school age and then the parent(s) can be a member of the work force without such costs. To stop the - people should not have kids if they cannot afford them response - in general, societies need kids and work force members. Look at social security...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I predict in the next decade that even urban areas will be going to 4 day school weeks or go towards shorter school days. There won't be enough $$ to pay staff enough to retain them. Staff won't be willing to stay in the conditions that are present. One solution will be to go 4 days a week or 5-5.5 hour days. Think it won't happen in your area? Think again. My school hosts student observers and student teachers. Most of the staff have been actively encouraging them to change majors. We don't have to twist their arms though once they see what it’s really like.

I absolutely agree that it’s likely to happen. Local businesses and possibly counties will step in to provide childcare on the fifth day. Some people will love it, others will hate it.

1) Where will the county money come from - the same taxpayers who pay the teachers?
2) Who will provide the childcare? Hourly childcare workers are, also, difficult to hire and employ these days.

The realities of the US economy is work is structured around a 5-day school week ( ie a stock market week / banking days) where people can be relieved of oppressive childcare costs once kids reach school age and then the parent(s) can be a member of the work force without such costs. To stop the - people should not have kids if they cannot afford them response - in general, societies need kids and work force members. Look at social security...

It’s already happening and people are adjusting to it. There have been many stories about it. Teachers looking for more money will have the option to work a fifth day somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I predict in the next decade that even urban areas will be going to 4 day school weeks or go towards shorter school days. There won't be enough $$ to pay staff enough to retain them. Staff won't be willing to stay in the conditions that are present. One solution will be to go 4 days a week or 5-5.5 hour days. Think it won't happen in your area? Think again. My school hosts student observers and student teachers. Most of the staff have been actively encouraging them to change majors. We don't have to twist their arms though once they see what it’s really like.

I absolutely agree that it’s likely to happen. Local businesses and possibly counties will step in to provide childcare on the fifth day. Some people will love it, others will hate it.

1) Where will the county money come from - the same taxpayers who pay the teachers?
2) Who will provide the childcare? Hourly childcare workers are, also, difficult to hire and employ these days.

The realities of the US economy is work is structured around a 5-day school week ( ie a stock market week / banking days) where people can be relieved of oppressive childcare costs once kids reach school age and then the parent(s) can be a member of the work force without such costs. To stop the - people should not have kids if they cannot afford them response - in general, societies need kids and work force members. Look at social security...

It’s already happening and people are adjusting to it. There have been many stories about it. Teachers looking for more money will have the option to work a fifth day somewhere.

Interesting study. The point that it is only an advantage of teacher recruiting and incentives if the 4-day week is unique as compared to neighboring districts is especially important in DMV.
https://www.rand.org/pubs/commentary/2023/04/the-four-day-school-week-are-the-pros-worth-the-cons.html
https://www.rand.org/pubs/commentary/2023/04/the-four-day-school-week-are-the-pros-worth-the-cons.html

[Anonymous]

Loudoun also has a 7.5 hour day, so clearly you weren't interested in researching your claims.

My school had three unfilled positions this year; first they had long term subs, then teachers were hired, and quit, and now they are using teachers from a contracting company. The staffing crisis is here, and based on what my colleagues in higher ed say, there is no relief in sight.

We are probably going to start seeing something akin to travel nursing in the next ten years--teachers who go where they are needed temporarily in exchange for much better pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I predict in the next decade that even urban areas will be going to 4 day school weeks or go towards shorter school days. There won't be enough $$ to pay staff enough to retain them. Staff won't be willing to stay in the conditions that are present. One solution will be to go 4 days a week or 5-5.5 hour days. Think it won't happen in your area? Think again. My school hosts student observers and student teachers. Most of the staff have been actively encouraging them to change majors. We don't have to twist their arms though once they see what it’s really like.

I absolutely agree that it’s likely to happen. Local businesses and possibly counties will step in to provide childcare on the fifth day. Some people will love it, others will hate it.

1) Where will the county money come from - the same taxpayers who pay the teachers?
2) Who will provide the childcare? Hourly childcare workers are, also, difficult to hire and employ these days.

The realities of the US economy is work is structured around a 5-day school week ( ie a stock market week / banking days) where people can be relieved of oppressive childcare costs once kids reach school age and then the parent(s) can be a member of the work force without such costs. To stop the - people should not have kids if they cannot afford them response - in general, societies need kids and work force members. Look at social security...

It’s already happening and people are adjusting to it. There have been many stories about it. Teachers looking for more money will have the option to work a fifth day somewhere.

Interesting study. The point that it is only an advantage of teacher recruiting and incentives if the 4-day week is unique as compared to neighboring districts is especially important in DMV.
https://www.rand.org/pubs/commentary/2023/04/the-four-day-school-week-are-the-pros-worth-the-cons.html
https://www.rand.org/pubs/commentary/2023/04/the-four-day-school-week-are-the-pros-worth-the-cons.html

I’ll jump to whichever Nova district does it first

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I learned this week that ACPS has the shortest school day of any district in the Commonwealth - teacher contract hours are only 7.5 hours a day in a school building. From what I have observed, most of the teachers are absolutely cognizant of this when they show up 10 minutes before school and are out by 20 minutes after. Most teachers are contracted for 195 7.5 hour days - so a total of 1462.5 hours a year. Distilled to an hourly rate, that is $38.54 an hour for a first year Bachelors teacher and for the teacher who stayed on for a masters degree and is a first yeat $43.78 and hour. I understand that many teachers do work outside contracted hours - many, also, do not. I have a doctorate level degree and my hourly wage was and is equivalent. A GS-11 Step 1 employee in this area is paid $82764 a year. They have to work 8.5 hours a day for approximately 266 days a year, so a rate of $36.61 an hour. Many of those GS-11s are working hours well-beyond 8.5. We should just be very careful in valuing teachers above our FBI agents, federal law enforcement, drug abuse counselors for veterans, social workers for Health and Human Services, Service Members, Public Defenders, etc. Many jobs are careers in service where compensation may not reflect the value of the work. Many people are public servants. Many people would value a 195 day work year.

Good luck finding a teacher or other school professional staff who doesn't work outside if contract time. Unfortunately, most are staying late or bringing work home. Some even struggle to find time to eat lunch, check email or even use the bathroom. If it was so great teachers wouldn't be leaving the profession in droves as they have been since the pandemic. 7.5 hours is typical for school contacts. That what I worked at APS before I left the schools. It's not an easy desk job and they should be paid competitively.

[Anonymous]

Wow op! You should go be a teacher, clearly you’re being scammed.

[Anonymous]

OP here - contract is for a 7.25 hour day.
https://resources.finalsite.net/images/v1679027816/acpsk12vaus/ua6ig8ioryfvhvvunwdd/GAA-StaffTimeSchedules.pdf

A Step 1 Bachelors teacher’s hourly rate is $39.88

[Anonymous]

What’s your point?

Also, that hourly rate doesn’t include required afterschool meetings with admin, parent conferences, or of course planning and preparing lessons. If you think most teachers don’t work extensively outside their contract hours, then you don’t know many teachers.

[Anonymous]

All school districts around here have officially have 7.5 hour days for teaching. I can get everything done in about 8.5 hours a day, and I’m a veteran teacher (though new to my current role). I will be working for about 2 hours today to get ready for upcoming parent conferences. I also still have about 20 essays to grade, which I didn’t get to last week.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here - contract is for a 7.25 hour day.
https://resources.finalsite.net/images/v1679027816/acpsk12vaus/ua6ig8ioryfvhvvunwdd/GAA-StaffTimeSchedules.pdf

A Step 1 Bachelors teacher’s hourly rate is $39.88

WHAT'S YOUR POINT? You seem to be hung up on the hourly rate. Get over yourself.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - contract is for a 7.25 hour day.
https://resources.finalsite.net/images/v1679027816/acpsk12vaus/ua6ig8ioryfvhvvunwdd/GAA-StaffTimeSchedules.pdf

A Step 1 Bachelors teacher’s hourly rate is $39.88

WHAT'S YOUR POINT? You seem to be hung up on the hourly rate. Get over yourself.

Point is to highlight the rate of compensation. That is not to say it is adequate or inadequate. When discussing compensation, information and perspective can be helpful. Also, when teachers are holding and making signs about their compensation rate, information may be helpful. There are some jobs that all the money in the world would not drive the person to do - NYC sanitation worker, mortician, Soldier, social worker etc. Is there some of that going on with teaching? Is this a scenario where 10, 20, 30 thousand a year more would not be enough? And, if so, why?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - contract is for a 7.25 hour day.
https://resources.finalsite.net/images/v1679027816/acpsk12vaus/ua6ig8ioryfvhvvunwdd/GAA-StaffTimeSchedules.pdf

A Step 1 Bachelors teacher’s hourly rate is $39.88

WHAT'S YOUR POINT? You seem to be hung up on the hourly rate. Get over yourself.

Point is to highlight the rate of compensation. That is not to say it is adequate or inadequate. When discussing compensation, information and perspective can be helpful. Also, when teachers are holding and making signs about their compensation rate, information may be helpful. There are some jobs that all the money in the world would not drive the person to do - NYC sanitation worker, mortician, Soldier, social worker etc. Is there some of that going on with teaching? Is this a scenario where 10, 20, 30 thousand a year more would not be enough? And, if so, why?

You were trying to stir shit and failed. Now go away, sad troll.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here - contract is for a 7.25 hour day.
https://resources.finalsite.net/images/v1679027816/acpsk12vaus/ua6ig8ioryfvhvvunwdd/GAA-StaffTimeSchedules.pdf

A Step 1 Bachelors teacher’s hourly rate is $39.88

WHAT'S YOUR POINT? You seem to be hung up on the hourly rate. Get over yourself.

Point is to highlight the rate of compensation. That is not to say it is adequate or inadequate. When discussing compensation, information and perspective can be helpful. Also, when teachers are holding and making signs about their compensation rate, information may be helpful. There are some jobs that all the money in the world would not drive the person to do - NYC sanitation worker, mortician, Soldier, social worker etc. Is there some of that going on with teaching? Is this a scenario where 10, 20, 30 thousand a year more would not be enough? And, if so, why?

You were trying to stir shit and failed. Now go away, sad troll.

What should teachers be paid as an hourly rate? Maybe contract more hours that can be worked at home to reflect telework flexibility? Not a troll. Why is pointing out commensurate pay so triggering?