is outside enrichment really unaffordable?

[Anonymous]

Kahn Academy is great and free.
For a small fee in elementary school, Beast Academy through AoPS isn't that expensive if you do it online and with books and not at the center, and the AoPS Alcumus is free. There is no need to spend much money supplementing these days with so much good stuff online.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's less the monetary cost than it's the time and individual attention. Kumon/RSM/AOPS are roughly in the same price ballpark and the curriculum and instruction is all fine for purposes of reinforcement. I find though that even though I send the kids to Kumon/RSM/AOPS, I still need to make sure the kids do the homework and I often need to work through problems with them. It's the keeping tabs on the kids and support that take up the most time and that would be expensive to replicate in that I suspect it would otherwise require some 1-1 tutoring.

We are lower middle class as well, and the monthly fee was lowered to almost nothing. We made time to sit with the child as well, but our kid did not want to study. So we stopped, and child is back to TV and phone. We are looking for suggestions what we can do if child refuses to study.

How old is your child?

I would remove access to TV and phone. Those are earned. Doing your homework, turning in assignments on time, getting As and Bs on tests - those things will give access to TV, phone, hanging out with friends. If those are not done, there is no access to fun things until they do. It's like when DD was young, I would say 'You have 3 hours before you have to go to bed. You can spend all 3 hours dawdling, arguing, not doing your work, or you can get it done quickly and well, and the rest of the time is yours'. She learned very quickly that being efficient and good got her free time to do whatever she wanted. If your child is still young (I'd say below 12 or 13 years old), I would read to them. Play audiobooks in the car when you're taking them places. Talk to them about the books you're both reading/listening to.

A lot of what you need to do, is to get them out and about, and expose them to what the world holds for them. Take them to museums, monuments, gardens. Talk to them about what's there, why it's important to preserve old things, talk about events that led to monuments, etc. Look into things like planetariums, or talks about space and cosmology. Look into events your library might have, or ask them for help to research events that you can take your child to. A lot of what kids get in MC/UMC households, is parents talking to them about what is going on in the world around them, from a young age. This tends to develop curiosity and interests.

And I would be honest with them about your life and your struggles, and what you hope for them. DH and I are immigrants, that through education, hard work, and luck are now wealthy. We don't hide our past from our child; we talk about the enormous amount of effort that got us to where we are. My very first job as a teenager, was picking up trash in parks. I put myself through my post-grad work by working 70 hours in 3 jobs, while also carrying a full course load. We also talk about how much more opportunity she has to make a really good life for herself, and have a positive impact on the world around her.

Excellent insights PP. Congrats to your family!

[Anonymous]

Look on the FCPS website - there have always been resources there!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

When people here say outside enrichment is expensive and unaffordable, is there another offering from Kumon that costs much more for elementary math? Of are the rich people trying to keep us lower middle class people from accessing these affordable outside enrichment options to prevent our children from competing academically?

Lower middle class person here. I think there are a few things at play here:

1) Taking just one class may not cost so much, $150/month is fine but that only covers a few weeks. You have to continue the classes for many months or even years. Over time, the costs start to add up. For example, my daughter loves arts and crafts so she's signed up for learning to sew. Over three sessions of 7 weeks each, we've spent about $750 for her to get to learn how to use needle and thread 101. In retrospect, I think that's really f'ing expensive. But at enrollment time paying one session at a time, it is doable. So I think affordable or not is relative, depends on how you look at it, what your budget and priorities are. And then consider that most kids take multiple classes, not just 1 hr a week. This quickly adds to many thousands per year.

2) For many people, the enrichment is absolutely expensive and unaffordable. I think very much of the education gap between kids is due to access to these extra classes. It is tragic and shameful to see. Do I think it's because rich people are conspiring to keep poor kids out? No. I think it's a matter of supply and demand. Good classes are incredibly valuable, so people are willing to pay the price if they're able to, so costs go up. Providers can charge high and still fill to capacity and waitlists.

Another lower middle class person here. Hourly tutors are expensive, as we all know. For not so educated parents who lack college degree, after asking around a lot, I found monthly enrichment programs are the best affordable option. Got into the routine of going there twice weekly, and keeps them away from TV and the dyamn phone, at least for sometime.

With no school homework in elementary grades, many parents turn to outside enrichment to keep the child engaged with something productive, instead of the default alternative of excessive screen time. Outside enrichment starts to fade off starting about 8th grade as school homework begins to get assigned.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are a lot of free resources out there. Parents just have to know where to find them, and both the parents and kids have to be motivated to use them.

Khan Academy is free and covers a lot of subjects. AoPS has many free resources as well as a message board where kids can ask for help if they didn't understand something.

The assumption that many people are making is that families who are living in poverty have the same knowledge regarding available services, free or paid, and the same desire for their kids to have aa higher level of academic success. That assumption is a bad one.

Parents who do not have high school degrees are not likely to be aware of enrichment opportunities, free or paid, as parents who have high school degrees or college degrees or advanced degrees. The parent who is working two jobs is not likely to have the time to be looking into Khan Academy or making sure that their kid is doing Khan Academy or helping their kid with struggles on Khan Academy.

We can talk about all the resources that are available, the schools can talk about all the resources that are available, but it means nothing unless the parents are reading those messages and want to act on those messages. That is the disconnect. By the time that the kids are able to read those messages and understand them it is too late because they will be far behind the learning curve and they might not have the support to catch up at home or in school.

The problem is deeper and harder to solve then pointing people to Khan Academy or free worksheet websites.

The question was whether outside enrichment is unaffordable. The answer is that it is not necessarily unaffordable, and some sources are even free. You're making an assumption about other people's assumptions, rather than answering the question as asked. Obviously, families in poverty may be unaware of free resources, be unmotivated to use them, be unable to see the point of trying, be unable to help their kids with the free resources, or be too overburdened for enrichment to be on their radar at all. Those are completely different issues than whether an involved, motivated, lower income parent is effectively shut out from outside enrichment for their kids due to cost.

[Anonymous]

In elementary school, we just did workbooks at home. Much more affordable.

[Anonymous]

If your child resists, either they have a learning disability that makes it extremely hard for them to access instruction you are giving, or you are not a good parent and teacher (teaching is a skill that sometimes doesn't come easily!).

Also, OP, stop it with the "rich people are making this harder for us poor people". How ridiculous. It's your life, and your child's future. Own that, and actually put in the work. I am wealthy now, but when my oldest was in elementary, I was not, and taught him after school every day. He was not allowed to shirk. He has ADHD and autism, and really needed the supplementation, and so that's we did.

I'll let you in on a little secret: it's a question of your motivation and willpower, not his. If you have more than he does, you will be able to develop his skills to his potential maximum, whatever that limit is. For example, you will go the extra mile and have the kid evaluated for ADHD or dyslexia or whatever. You will accommodate and support his learning, teach consistently, and never give up.

It starts with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
If your child resists, either they have a learning disability that makes it extremely hard for them to access instruction you are giving, or you are not a good parent and teacher (teaching is a skill that sometimes doesn't come easily!).

Also, OP, stop it with the "rich people are making this harder for us poor people". How ridiculous. It's your life, and your child's future. Own that, and actually put in the work. I am wealthy now, but when my oldest was in elementary, I was not, and taught him after school every day. He was not allowed to shirk. He has ADHD and autism, and really needed the supplementation, and so that's we did.

I'll let you in on a little secret: it's a question of your motivation and willpower, not his. If you have more than he does, you will be able to develop his skills to his potential maximum, whatever that limit is. For example, you will go the extra mile and have the kid evaluated for ADHD or dyslexia or whatever. You will accommodate and support his learning, teach consistently, and never give up.

It starts with you.

I didnt interpret that OP is trying blame rich people. OP says they were surprised by how much outside enrichment IS affordable when they discovered the low cost kumon option, and why it is not widely known among poor people.

[Anonymous]

“Of are the rich people trying to keep us lower middle class people from accessing these affordable outside enrichment options to prevent our children from competing academically?”

That’s the bit where they are suspecting that wealthier people are somehow hoarding tutors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Of are the rich people trying to keep us lower middle class people from accessing these affordable outside enrichment options to prevent our children from competing academically?”

That’s the bit where they are suspecting that wealthier people are somehow hoarding tutors.

OP here. There is lack of awareness among lower middle class on leveraging low cost enrichment options as effective parenting tool.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I work as a data center technician when I could be making three times working as a computer engineer. In hindsight, I was weak in math and that's what discouraged me from pursuing a four year college degree in a stem field. I dont want to make the same mistake with my child and would like to make sure they are confident with math from elementary grades itself. It's not that school math is bad, except child doesnt get it in one pass, and needs reinforcement. I tried supporting with evening math practice myself using free internet resources and workbooks, but child doesnt listen to me. After input from other parents, I got them started with Kumon, and was pleasantly surprised it costs just $150 per month, while I expected it would be much more and unaffordable. I am completely comfortable with this nominal investment into my child for what I see as necessary given my child's math learning needs.

When people here say outside enrichment is expensive and unaffordable, is there another offering from Kumon that costs much more for elementary math? Of are the rich people trying to keep us lower middle class people from accessing these affordable outside enrichment options to prevent our children from competing academically?

Places like Kumon aren't all that great really. It not that different than you just buying the books and making them do a few worksheets. If you are an involved parent, your child will benefit much more if you work with them at that age. However, once they get to Algebra or higher courses may be in order. This will cost a minimum of $1500+/year. They would also even benefit from a tutor which can be as little as $2500/year. My point is that even kids who are great at math need to learn it somewhere.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:“Of are the rich people trying to keep us lower middle class people from accessing these affordable outside enrichment options to prevent our children from competing academically?”

That’s the bit where they are suspecting that wealthier people are somehow hoarding tutors.

Everyone likes to say Khan academy and I guess that's okay but it really is nowhere near as good as the pay options like RSM or AoPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:“Of are the rich people trying to keep us lower middle class people from accessing these affordable outside enrichment options to prevent our children from competing academically?”

That’s the bit where they are suspecting that wealthier people are somehow hoarding tutors.

Everyone likes to say Khan academy and I guess that's okay but it really is nowhere near as good as the pay options like RSM or AoPS.

It depends on what your kid needs or wants and how they learn. There are kids who are fine with going online and learning from a site like Kumon. My son would be fine learning that way. So far he has understood math pretty quickly and easily. But he prefers learning in a class with other kids. He has a strong preference for in person learning, it is why we moved from AoPS to RSM. He likes the interaction and dialogue that comes from a class.

I would see Khan as being harder for a kid who was struggling but we have not used it a ton. I don't know if there are discussion boards, I am guessing that there are, but I don't know how useful reading someone's explanation would be or how effective a kid would be in explaining why they are confused on a message board.

I see AoPS and RSM Honors/Math Competition class as classes for kids who pick up math quickly and want to be challenged and creative with math. I see the other RSM levels as more similar to a class environment with more repetition. Kumon and Mathnasium are more small group drill style? We have not used them but that is the impression I get from peoples description. Different styles will meet different needs and aptitudes.

[Anonymous]

I think something is better than nothing. If Kumon is what you can afford, then a parent should feel good about providing the best enrichment they can.

That said, if you broke down how much individual time your child gets, you may find it's actually quite expensive.

I pay $75 an hour for an FCPS teacher to reteach concepts to my SN son 1:1. His teachers tell the tutor what exactly he needs. I feel like it's a better bang for my buck. Their are more expensive, more specialized tutors out there, but they are out my reach. I don't feel guilty because I know I'm doing the best I can within my means.

[Anonymous]

PP *there