Yorktown intensified classes

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:My kids were advised by counselors as part of a large group that it was not advisable to take all intensified classes at Yorktown. I asked them (2 kids during different years) to check in with their teachers and a counselor before registering for classes. The teachers and the counselor both said “oh, no. That wasn’t meant for you. You could easily do it.” My kids are smart but not special. I don’t know why the counseling staff scares kids and parents off these classes. Unfortunately, I can’t report back because neither kid ended up going to Yorktown.

I am OP and yes it's this exact dynamic that happened to my daughter.

Smart kid, nothing over the top. Recommended for all intensified and they tried to scare the crap out of her. Why are you recommending them for these classes then?

You will find the counselors at WMS (1 in particular) create WAY too much stress for these kids. Everything is dramatic, they stress that 12 yo MS students need to be concerned about college now, advanced diploma is a must, etc. I have been blown away at how awesome our YHS counselor is. They truly believe in balance and what's right for the individual kid. My DS has all As at WMS and struggled with all intensified classes at YHS (particularly the English/History block). I met with the Counselor and they said kids didn't all learn proper homework and study skills in MS. Most were doing their HW during class, never had to study and still got As. Then they go to YHS and first quarter is a whole new world, and some of them struggle- because they lack those skills. We got him back on track quickly thank goodness but if your kid doesn't have good study/HW skills in MS, be prepared to be on them first quarter in HS!

APS and parents pushing for no homework and other "equitable grading" policies are doing all students a disservice. At the same time, teachers complain that they don't have any time to do any grading; so they also are doing students a disservice by not giving more significant assignments. The whole effort to minimize work is antithesis to my efforts as a parent to teach my kids to do more than the bare minimum. Why do I suspect the parents pushing for "equitable grading" are parents of kids who are high achieving students and/or who give their kids the help or can afford to hire the help their kids need? The ones whose kids aren't going to be irreparably hindered or harmed by them.

I’m a teacher. I have a solution for the grading issue. We need smaller class sizes. You can’t squeeze blood out of a turnip.

So, tell me - what size would be small enough for you? And what assignments would you then give?
And where are you going to find enough teachers to be able to create these sufficiently small classes?
It would be better for parents and admin to stop requiring teachers to be social workers and conduct SEL lessons and community circle discussions.
My high school teachers had classes of mid-twenties and managed to grade multiple papers and essays, including full-length term papers.

I know I have 30 in every single class, with a variety of special needs. I know 150 students is too many. How long did it take your super duper high school teacher to read those “full-length term papers”, do you think? What’s full length? 4 pages? 5? Multiply that by 150 and tell me if you think that’s reasonable. Keep in mind that the teacher is also teaching classes. Planning for that instruction.

If we want to attract more teachers, I have a solution for that as well…

I definitely agree about the SEL stuff. Everybody wants us to solve all of the world’s problems now.

My high school teachers (never said they were super-duper) likely spent several hours most evenings and all weekends to read and grade those 15-30 (thank you) page term papers. I recall one of my advanced Eng teachers saying she could get one or one and a half graded during her 45-minute planning period - so that gives you an idea. We waited weeks to get them back. Whereas, our high school students aren't even writing those 4-5 page papers you seem to be mocking me with.

I wasn't suggesting it was easy - just that they did it. Meanwhile, they also planned and taught and graded other shorter written assignments. Obviously, this isn't every teacher in every subject. Our 20+ page term papers were in English and History. So maybe we just need more English and History teachers and smaller English and history classes. We had some larger experiments and reports in Physics, too; but only once or twice a year and not nearly as intensive as an English literature term paper.

So, again I acknowledge teachers have a whole bunch of additional non-instruction, off-topic nonsense requirements that take up a great deal of their time that shouldn't be their responsibility. However, it does seem that teachers expect that they should be able to get everything done within the school day and not have to spend any time at home or on weekends grading so much as multiple choice quizzes. Whether they should or shouldn't is irrelevant because it shouldn't be a surprise that the teaching profession includes long hours during the school year. I'm not suggesting that the answer is simply to do it in their free time. I sincerely believe a lot of the non-teaching responsibilities need to be removed, teachers should have a planning period, and genuinely curious what student caseload teachers think is necessary to be able to do one in-depth, full research paper.

Also, not every class these teachers taught wrote these long papers; so it wasn't 150 papers all at once. I'm pretty sure the gen ed English and history classes didn't write big long research papers. So does the teacher's course schedule play a role and can that be changed to facilitate more meaningful assignments?

Again, how many students would make it feasible?

Oh my freaking God. There are no teachers getting everything done during the school day, no matter what they teach. No one I know.

We are working our asses off, as you expect. I’m not an English teacher, so I can’t answer your question, but 30 in a class is too much, no matter what you teach.

I didn't say teachers are getting everything done during the school day.
For whatever subject it is you teach, how many students would make more significant/longer assignments to grade feasible? I'm seriously asking. I'm tired of "we need smaller class sizes" and "if we only had smaller class sizes" and "smaller class sizes will fix that." "Smaller" means nothing. You could have a class of 21, smaller than what you have; but would that do it? What's the magic class size range? And do you sincerely believe that would make it possible for teachers to get everything done during the school day? I don't.

Your exact words were: “However, it does seem that teachers expect that they should get everything done during the school day and not have to spend any time at home or on the weekends grading so much as multiple choice quizzes”.

No, I don’t think we’ll ever get everything done during the school day, and so never said THAT, by the way. However, you want 25-page term papers, and I have no guilt that I’m working hard enough.

Let’s take teachers out of it. I’m a parent, too. I’m sorry that you don’t understand the benefit of smaller classes, or the negative consequences of classes that are too large, on individual students. What would be ideal? Maybe 24 or 25. Not 30.