Watkins mill IB vs Richard Montgomery

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are asking this question, I am afraid RMIB is going to be too stressful for your kid. You are too unaware and unprepared.

However, WMIB is not going to be rigorous enough because your kid will not have even an average cohort.

You might want to send your kid to WMHS and make them take AP classes. It is going to be a very lonely experience for your kid, no matter what school they go to.

Prophetic words. Come back and comment on this in a year or two.

I think this is the same person from a few years ago who spent weeks insisting that MCPS was stratifying RMIB and other IB kids??? They want to believe that MCPS is putting the "better" ones into RMIB - as if MCPS was competent enough to (1) figure that out and (2) actually do it.

Being in an IB cohort means spending the entire day with other smart/motivated students. If you can get that at your home school then you should. If you can't then go IB in my opinion.

Correct. That is the main perk. My kid is in the IB cohort at Kennedy and while the outcomes don't come close to RM, the fact that he's surrounded by kids who are smart, motivated and want to do the work makes a world of difference.

I'm not sure that you are familiar with RM.

Based on the last year of data that we have (2022 - and 2023 should be coming out asap), there were 1025 students at RM who took an AP exam, with a pass rate of 83.6%. The "cohort" of smart, motivated kids at RM is much larger than the number in the RMIB magnet. Much, much larger. At Kennedy, there were 327 kids who took an AP exam, with a pass rate of 36.9% and at Watkins Mill, there were only 99 kids who took an AP exam, with a 31.9% pass rate. Well, maybe all of the smart kids at Kennedy and WM are in the IB programs... they only release score data by test, but:

English A: Language and Literature:
RM: 77 exams taken; mean score = 5.4
Kennedy: 47; mean score = 3.7
Watkins Mill: 83; mean score = 4.1

English A: Literature
RM: 63 exams taken; mean score = 5.7
Kennedy: 20; mean score = 3.3
Watkins Mill: no tests

Mathematics: Analysis and Approaches
RM: 114 exams taken; mean score = 5.6
Kennedy: no tests
Watkins Mill: no tests

Mathematics: Applications and Interpretation
RM: 26 exams taken; mean score = 5.0
Kennedy: 35; mean score = 2.5
Watkins Mill: 14; mean score = 3.6

Biology
RM: 47 exams taken; mean score = 5.3
Kennedy: 19; mean score = 3.5
Watkins Mill: 31; mean score = 2.8

Environmental Systems and Societies
RM: 31 exams taken; mean score = 6.3
Kennedy: no tests
Watkins Mill: no tests

Physics
RM: 58 exams taken; mean score = 5.4
Kennedy: no tests
Watkins Mill: no tests

I'm sure that the scores will improve in 2023, due to the regional programs. But the idea that there is some great cohort at Kennedy and WM, compared to normal AP classrooms at RM is just not borne out by this data. But definitely, a strong kid who can actually overcome these classes and score above the mean at Kennedy or WM is better off in college admissions due to both lack of competition and the appearance that they have overcome adversity, based on their school's statistics.

Are you under the assumption I disagree that RMIB has higher academic outcomes? I literally said the “outcomes don’t come close to RM” and then you posted a bunch of that validates that exact point.

And yes, the majority of those kids scores are from kids in the IB program. Kennedy forces many kids to take the IB versions of courses but it’s mainly the cohort kids who motivated enough to attempt the tests.

Don’t forget that the kids who took (or didn’t take) those tests at Kennedy and WM in 2022 were NOT part of the magnet cohort. They were kids zoned for the school, or who selected it in the Choice process, who then opted to take IB classes.

The first regional IB magnet cohorts are seniors this year, so any previous data regarding those schools’ IB programs is irrelevant. Because of the way the classes, exams, and other required IB components are structured, we won’t know until the end of this year how many of them were successful in the Diploma Program.

So don’t let the rabid anti-IB poster derail the discussion. The fact is that there’s no relevant data available yet for any of the regional criteria-based magnet cohorts.

So no IB kid takes any AP or IB test until Senior year?

The whole point of my post was to respond to the poster who says that the strong IB cohort of "smart, motivated" kids at Kennedy is the primary benefit of the program. The title of the thread is "Watkins Mill IB vs. Richard Montgomery" and I am asserting that at RM, even kids who aren't in the RMIB have stronger and more plentiful "smart, motivated" peers than at the other two schools discussed in this thread.

I'm the Kennedy parent you were quoting before. The "smart, motivated kids" comment I was made was relevant to the pool of kids at Kennedy. Kennedy was the school my kid was sent to. Their first choice was Wheaton but they didn't get it.

I don't dispute that the RM has a pool of kids outside the IB program who are academically stronger than the non-IB pool at Kennedy. I'll take your word for it. But for those for whom RM is not an option, the Regional IB at Kennedy is definitely better than the non-IB pool at Kennedy, and maybe at their non-Kennedy DCC homeschool, and thus be an opportunity to surround themselves with smart, motivated kids, in relation to THAT SCHOOL ENVIRONMENT.

You keep trying to compare the Regional IBs to RMIB when I've already made clear I agree it is the best in the county and its academic outcomes are not matched by any IB program in the county.

Thank you for this. I've not commented in this thread, but I think you perfectly encapsulate the argument and I'm confused about why PP is so insistent. No one is attacking the "home school" population at RM, but "in-bounds for RM" is not a universal option.

More to the point, people are always saying there are not enough slots for all of the able kids in MCPS. Regional criteria-based IB magnets are one attempt to remedy that problem, but it won't work if folks like PP keep crapping all over them before they even have a chance to get some traction.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are asking this question, I am afraid RMIB is going to be too stressful for your kid. You are too unaware and unprepared.

However, WMIB is not going to be rigorous enough because your kid will not have even an average cohort.

You might want to send your kid to WMHS and make them take AP classes. It is going to be a very lonely experience for your kid, no matter what school they go to.

Prophetic words. Come back and comment on this in a year or two.

I think this is the same person from a few years ago who spent weeks insisting that MCPS was stratifying RMIB and other IB kids??? They want to believe that MCPS is putting the "better" ones into RMIB - as if MCPS was competent enough to (1) figure that out and (2) actually do it.

Being in an IB cohort means spending the entire day with other smart/motivated students. If you can get that at your home school then you should. If you can't then go IB in my opinion.

Correct. That is the main perk. My kid is in the IB cohort at Kennedy and while the outcomes don't come close to RM, the fact that he's surrounded by kids who are smart, motivated and want to do the work makes a world of difference.

I'm not sure that you are familiar with RM.

Based on the last year of data that we have (2022 - and 2023 should be coming out asap), there were 1025 students at RM who took an AP exam, with a pass rate of 83.6%. The "cohort" of smart, motivated kids at RM is much larger than the number in the RMIB magnet. Much, much larger. At Kennedy, there were 327 kids who took an AP exam, with a pass rate of 36.9% and at Watkins Mill, there were only 99 kids who took an AP exam, with a 31.9% pass rate. Well, maybe all of the smart kids at Kennedy and WM are in the IB programs... they only release score data by test, but:

English A: Language and Literature:
RM: 77 exams taken; mean score = 5.4
Kennedy: 47; mean score = 3.7
Watkins Mill: 83; mean score = 4.1

English A: Literature
RM: 63 exams taken; mean score = 5.7
Kennedy: 20; mean score = 3.3
Watkins Mill: no tests

Mathematics: Analysis and Approaches
RM: 114 exams taken; mean score = 5.6
Kennedy: no tests
Watkins Mill: no tests

Mathematics: Applications and Interpretation
RM: 26 exams taken; mean score = 5.0
Kennedy: 35; mean score = 2.5
Watkins Mill: 14; mean score = 3.6

Biology
RM: 47 exams taken; mean score = 5.3
Kennedy: 19; mean score = 3.5
Watkins Mill: 31; mean score = 2.8

Environmental Systems and Societies
RM: 31 exams taken; mean score = 6.3
Kennedy: no tests
Watkins Mill: no tests

Physics
RM: 58 exams taken; mean score = 5.4
Kennedy: no tests
Watkins Mill: no tests

I'm sure that the scores will improve in 2023, due to the regional programs. But the idea that there is some great cohort at Kennedy and WM, compared to normal AP classrooms at RM is just not borne out by this data. But definitely, a strong kid who can actually overcome these classes and score above the mean at Kennedy or WM is better off in college admissions due to both lack of competition and the appearance that they have overcome adversity, based on their school's statistics.

Are you under the assumption I disagree that RMIB has higher academic outcomes? I literally said the “outcomes don’t come close to RM” and then you posted a bunch of that validates that exact point.

And yes, the majority of those kids scores are from kids in the IB program. Kennedy forces many kids to take the IB versions of courses but it’s mainly the cohort kids who motivated enough to attempt the tests.

Don’t forget that the kids who took (or didn’t take) those tests at Kennedy and WM in 2022 were NOT part of the magnet cohort. They were kids zoned for the school, or who selected it in the Choice process, who then opted to take IB classes.

The first regional IB magnet cohorts are seniors this year, so any previous data regarding those schools’ IB programs is irrelevant. Because of the way the classes, exams, and other required IB components are structured, we won’t know until the end of this year how many of them were successful in the Diploma Program.

So don’t let the rabid anti-IB poster derail the discussion. The fact is that there’s no relevant data available yet for any of the regional criteria-based magnet cohorts.

So no IB kid takes any AP or IB test until Senior year?

The whole point of my post was to respond to the poster who says that the strong IB cohort of "smart, motivated" kids at Kennedy is the primary benefit of the program. The title of the thread is "Watkins Mill IB vs. Richard Montgomery" and I am asserting that at RM, even kids who aren't in the RMIB have stronger and more plentiful "smart, motivated" peers than at the other two schools discussed in this thread.

I'm the Kennedy parent you were quoting before. The "smart, motivated kids" comment I was made was relevant to the pool of kids at Kennedy. Kennedy was the school my kid was sent to. Their first choice was Wheaton but they didn't get it.

I don't dispute that the RM has a pool of kids outside the IB program who are academically stronger than the non-IB pool at Kennedy. I'll take your word for it. But for those for whom RM is not an option, the Regional IB at Kennedy is definitely better than the non-IB pool at Kennedy, and maybe at their non-Kennedy DCC homeschool, and thus be an opportunity to surround themselves with smart, motivated kids, in relation to THAT SCHOOL ENVIRONMENT.

You keep trying to compare the Regional IBs to RMIB when I've already made clear I agree it is the best in the county and its academic outcomes are not matched by any IB program in the county.

The poster just likes to put children he doesn't know down.

Also, he is absolutely terrible at math. I don't think he would get into RMIB, or even (gasp!) a regional.

Look, let me get this down to for some of you incapable of figuring it out yourselves:

RMIB will get the highest scorers, just like HYPS do for college admissions --although at most only 2-6/100 of your IB kids from RMiB will get into each of those schools, and it will probably be the same 6, so less will go to each.

So what do you do with your bright kid who wants a small cohort, small classes challenging coursework in a MCPS high school?

You have options. Regional IBs are one. Will your kid get into HYPS? I mean, they do--although that was never our goal. Will your kid get into good colleges? Yes. With merit? Yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Watkins Mill HS is on lockdown once a week.

Stop being a liar and a tool.

I'm not a liar, my kid goes there. They were just on lockdown for the entire day 2 days ago because someone brought a weapon on school property. Maybe you enjoy police scouring the school and outside property with drones, but I don't. Its not safe.
Thankfully, my kid won't be there next year. And yes, they are on lockdown or shelter in place frequently.

They are not in lockdown weekly. You're lying and I don't even have kids nor will I ever have kids at that school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are asking this question, I am afraid RMIB is going to be too stressful for your kid. You are too unaware and unprepared.

However, WMIB is not going to be rigorous enough because your kid will not have even an average cohort.

You might want to send your kid to WMHS and make them take AP classes. It is going to be a very lonely experience for your kid, no matter what school they go to.

Prophetic words. Come back and comment on this in a year or two.

I think this is the same person from a few years ago who spent weeks insisting that MCPS was stratifying RMIB and other IB kids??? They want to believe that MCPS is putting the "better" ones into RMIB - as if MCPS was competent enough to (1) figure that out and (2) actually do it.

Being in an IB cohort means spending the entire day with other smart/motivated students. If you can get that at your home school then you should. If you can't then go IB in my opinion.

Correct. That is the main perk. My kid is in the IB cohort at Kennedy and while the outcomes don't come close to RM, the fact that he's surrounded by kids who are smart, motivated and want to do the work makes a world of difference.

I'm not sure that you are familiar with RM.

Based on the last year of data that we have (2022 - and 2023 should be coming out asap), there were 1025 students at RM who took an AP exam, with a pass rate of 83.6%. The "cohort" of smart, motivated kids at RM is much larger than the number in the RMIB magnet. Much, much larger. At Kennedy, there were 327 kids who took an AP exam, with a pass rate of 36.9% and at Watkins Mill, there were only 99 kids who took an AP exam, with a 31.9% pass rate. Well, maybe all of the smart kids at Kennedy and WM are in the IB programs... they only release score data by test, but:

English A: Language and Literature:
RM: 77 exams taken; mean score = 5.4
Kennedy: 47; mean score = 3.7
Watkins Mill: 83; mean score = 4.1

English A: Literature
RM: 63 exams taken; mean score = 5.7
Kennedy: 20; mean score = 3.3
Watkins Mill: no tests

Mathematics: Analysis and Approaches
RM: 114 exams taken; mean score = 5.6
Kennedy: no tests
Watkins Mill: no tests

Mathematics: Applications and Interpretation
RM: 26 exams taken; mean score = 5.0
Kennedy: 35; mean score = 2.5
Watkins Mill: 14; mean score = 3.6

Biology
RM: 47 exams taken; mean score = 5.3
Kennedy: 19; mean score = 3.5
Watkins Mill: 31; mean score = 2.8

Environmental Systems and Societies
RM: 31 exams taken; mean score = 6.3
Kennedy: no tests
Watkins Mill: no tests

Physics
RM: 58 exams taken; mean score = 5.4
Kennedy: no tests
Watkins Mill: no tests

I'm sure that the scores will improve in 2023, due to the regional programs. But the idea that there is some great cohort at Kennedy and WM, compared to normal AP classrooms at RM is just not borne out by this data. But definitely, a strong kid who can actually overcome these classes and score above the mean at Kennedy or WM is better off in college admissions due to both lack of competition and the appearance that they have overcome adversity, based on their school's statistics.

Current WM '24 IB Regional Senior: I stumbled across this on accident while trying to find data, and would just like to point out that at least some of this data isn't true. There were students testing Math AA in 2022, but it was SL instead of HL, which may be where the data discrepancy comes from. IB Physics is always very popular, and there were plenty of seniors that year complaining about it. The teachers have all said that the regional cohorts have been different. Just wait for the new data to come out instead of trying to make conclusions based on old stats.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are asking this question, I am afraid RMIB is going to be too stressful for your kid. You are too unaware and unprepared.

However, WMIB is not going to be rigorous enough because your kid will not have even an average cohort.

You might want to send your kid to WMHS and make them take AP classes. It is going to be a very lonely experience for your kid, no matter what school they go to.

Prophetic words. Come back and comment on this in a year or two.

I think this is the same person from a few years ago who spent weeks insisting that MCPS was stratifying RMIB and other IB kids??? They want to believe that MCPS is putting the "better" ones into RMIB - as if MCPS was competent enough to (1) figure that out and (2) actually do it.

Being in an IB cohort means spending the entire day with other smart/motivated students. If you can get that at your home school then you should. If you can't then go IB in my opinion.

Correct. That is the main perk. My kid is in the IB cohort at Kennedy and while the outcomes don't come close to RM, the fact that he's surrounded by kids who are smart, motivated and want to do the work makes a world of difference.

I'm not sure that you are familiar with RM.

Based on the last year of data that we have (2022 - and 2023 should be coming out asap), there were 1025 students at RM who took an AP exam, with a pass rate of 83.6%. The "cohort" of smart, motivated kids at RM is much larger than the number in the RMIB magnet. Much, much larger. At Kennedy, there were 327 kids who took an AP exam, with a pass rate of 36.9% and at Watkins Mill, there were only 99 kids who took an AP exam, with a 31.9% pass rate. Well, maybe all of the smart kids at Kennedy and WM are in the IB programs... they only release score data by test, but:

English A: Language and Literature:
RM: 77 exams taken; mean score = 5.4
Kennedy: 47; mean score = 3.7
Watkins Mill: 83; mean score = 4.1

English A: Literature
RM: 63 exams taken; mean score = 5.7
Kennedy: 20; mean score = 3.3
Watkins Mill: no tests

Mathematics: Analysis and Approaches
RM: 114 exams taken; mean score = 5.6
Kennedy: no tests
Watkins Mill: no tests

Mathematics: Applications and Interpretation
RM: 26 exams taken; mean score = 5.0
Kennedy: 35; mean score = 2.5
Watkins Mill: 14; mean score = 3.6

Biology
RM: 47 exams taken; mean score = 5.3
Kennedy: 19; mean score = 3.5
Watkins Mill: 31; mean score = 2.8

Environmental Systems and Societies
RM: 31 exams taken; mean score = 6.3
Kennedy: no tests
Watkins Mill: no tests

Physics
RM: 58 exams taken; mean score = 5.4
Kennedy: no tests
Watkins Mill: no tests

I'm sure that the scores will improve in 2023, due to the regional programs. But the idea that there is some great cohort at Kennedy and WM, compared to normal AP classrooms at RM is just not borne out by this data. But definitely, a strong kid who can actually overcome these classes and score above the mean at Kennedy or WM is better off in college admissions due to both lack of competition and the appearance that they have overcome adversity, based on their school's statistics.

Current WM '24 IB Regional Senior: I stumbled across this on accident while trying to find data, and would just like to point out that at least some of this data isn't true. There were students testing Math AA in 2022, but it was SL instead of HL, which may be where the data discrepancy comes from. IB Physics is always very popular, and there were plenty of seniors that year complaining about it. The teachers have all said that the regional cohorts have been different. Just wait for the new data to come out instead of trying to make conclusions based on old stats.

+1
Also, using AP scores to make a statement about an IB school and the quality of the cohort (either in or out of the diploma program) is weird. The IB students at RM tend to double test in the APs corresponding to their IB courses, which they have to pay for. Students with lower SES don’t have the money to pay for extra tests. Using AP tests to compare the IB programs at three different schools with different student populations is ineffective.

[Anonymous]

I have a kid at RMIB and have proctored three IB exams there. Fully 100% of kids were engaged in the test start to finish. I recently proctored for WMIB. Of the 15 kids, three slept during the exam.

That’s my data. And if you live in the RM district you can join IB in 11th. It’s not quite the same experience as the magnet but the result is the same.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you are asking this question, I am afraid RMIB is going to be too stressful for your kid. You are too unaware and unprepared.

However, WMIB is not going to be rigorous enough because your kid will not have even an average cohort.

You might want to send your kid to WMHS and make them take AP classes. It is going to be a very lonely experience for your kid, no matter what school they go to.

Prophetic words. Come back and comment on this in a year or two.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you are asking this question, I am afraid RMIB is going to be too stressful for your kid. You are too unaware and unprepared.

However, WMIB is not going to be rigorous enough because your kid will not have even an average cohort.

You might want to send your kid to WMHS and make them take AP classes. It is going to be a very lonely experience for your kid, no matter what school they go to.

Prophetic words. Come back and comment on this in a year or two.

me bombo

[Anonymous]

RMIB is really difficult and stressful. Factor that in too.