Now that financial aid programs can pull from IRS, why not pull from last 10 years ..

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's my question:

A lot of FA is based on life choices and the system doesn't factor that in. You make x so you qualify for y. Life choices are too hard to account for. We could have saved but instead we put in a pool one summer and had that tummy tuck the next and paid 50k to a college counselor. But college will never know.

But now we're starting to make judgements. You had three kids? That was your decision.

Okay. But if we're dong this, why not really do this.

Why use the IRS retrieval took to pull one base year of data. They could look back a decade. You're making 300k now, but you were making 90k til 2 years ago. Or you're making 90k now - hmm, that's interesting because you were making 600k as a dentist until you somehow decided to pay yourself 90k this one base year. Or you've been making 400k for the last 15 years and have no 529? We can judge that.

I think with better data, this could all be easier, fairer, and we could know what the price would be a lot earlier.

Because the entire point of the FASFA is to help kids who for whatever reason, come from less advantaged homes. Regardless of if their parents made horrible decisions like having 6 kids with multiple different dead-beat Dads and the Mom blows everything she has on drugs. Or if the family making 100k a year in a LCOL area decides to go to Europe every year rather than stick that money in a 529.

It will never be fair, just like admissions aren’t fair. The goal has never been to be fair though.

She’s talking css which is 100% not about helping poor kids w parents who make poor decisions

Does the css use an IRS retreival tool?

The CSS is informed by the information on the FAFSA which uses the IRS retrieval tool.

What? that's circular, if the FAFSA was reliable there would be no CSS. They aren't relying on the FAFSA.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop wasting valuable brainpower on trying to catch “cheaters” that the schools themselves don’t even care that much about.

+1. The FAFSA is a snapshot, that's it. It spits out a number but that's not the end of the story, and it doesn't hand any one aid unless they are Pell eligible.

OP, do you realize how low the threshold is for Pell?

Do you know what the maximum Pell Grant actually is?

The SAI (formerly EFC) generated by the FAFSA is also used by schools to determine institutional awards--not just federal awards. So if you don't get a Pell grant, you might still get a College X grant if the total cost of attendance is above your expected contribution. This matters most with OOS and private schools (the latter which also often use the CSS to get a better picture of your finances).

I don’t know about being OOS necessarily. And definitely not about private schools, but I do know that unless we’re talking something like merit. Public schools—OOS or otherwise—don’t do a lot of grants, especially not need based for OOS students. Any “meet your need with aid” type of promise from a public school generally means loans.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Stop wasting valuable brainpower on trying to catch “cheaters” that the schools themselves don’t even care that much about.

+1. The FAFSA is a snapshot, that's it. It spits out a number but that's not the end of the story, and it doesn't hand any one aid unless they are Pell eligible.

OP, do you realize how low the threshold is for Pell?

Do you know what the maximum Pell Grant actually is?

The SAI (formerly EFC) generated by the FAFSA is also used by schools to determine institutional awards--not just federal awards. So if you don't get a Pell grant, you might still get a College X grant if the total cost of attendance is above your expected contribution. This matters most with OOS and private schools (the latter which also often use the CSS to get a better picture of your finances).

This. My son’s school gave him a $15k/yr grant based on info from the FAFSA. That combined with the merit money they offered made it possible for him to attend w/o the need for loans.

I just filled out this year’s FAFSA and it said I may be eligible for a Pell grant. I guess they increased the income for it since he didn’t get one last year.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's my question:

A lot of FA is based on life choices and the system doesn't factor that in. You make x so you qualify for y. Life choices are too hard to account for. We could have saved but instead we put in a pool one summer and had that tummy tuck the next and paid 50k to a college counselor. But college will never know.

But now we're starting to make judgements. You had three kids? That was your decision.

Okay. But if we're dong this, why not really do this.

Why use the IRS retrieval took to pull one base year of data. They could look back a decade. You're making 300k now, but you were making 90k til 2 years ago. Or you're making 90k now - hmm, that's interesting because you were making 600k as a dentist until you somehow decided to pay yourself 90k this one base year. Or you've been making 400k for the last 15 years and have no 529? We can judge that.

I think with better data, this could all be easier, fairer, and we could know what the price would be a lot earlier.

Because the entire point of the FASFA is to help kids who for whatever reason, come from less advantaged homes. Regardless of if their parents made horrible decisions like having 6 kids with multiple different dead-beat Dads and the Mom blows everything she has on drugs. Or if the family making 100k a year in a LCOL area decides to go to Europe every year rather than stick that money in a 529.

It will never be fair, just like admissions aren’t fair. The goal has never been to be fair though.

She’s talking css which is 100% not about helping poor kids w parents who make poor decisions

Does the css use an IRS retreival tool?

The CSS is informed by the information on the FAFSA which uses the IRS retrieval tool.

What? that's circular, if the FAFSA was reliable there would be no CSS. They aren't relying on the FAFSA.

They are relying on the basic number from the FAFSA for income. What the CSS adds is a more detailed picture of assets beyond the FAFSA--home equity, retirement accounts, sibling assets, grandparent assets, art/precious metals/jewelry/cars/collections--whatever people are currently using to hide value. They don't necessarily calculate everything out as usable assets--but if you are crying poor and have 10m in a backdoor Roth or a collection of Italian motorcycles or whatever, they aren't going to buy it.

[Anonymous]

I would support three to five years. It is unconscionable that rich people game the system so much.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I would support three to five years. It is unconscionable that rich people game the system so much.

Rich people don’t need financial aid they just pay.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would support three to five years. It is unconscionable that rich people game the system so much.

Rich people don’t need financial aid they just pay.

Sometimes they pay. Sometimes they game the system. Which is why daddy wants a W9 for his daughter’s $500,000 wedding and everyone in the family drives a G series.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I said something similar because our income (and COL) dramatically increased right when college started. I was arguing that we were judged by our current income and not the 15 years prior that we could save less. I was dragged for “whining” that our situation improved. This site is full of crazy a-holes.

Yeah I bet you wanted to be judged on the money you used to make and not the money you make right now.

I’ll be sure to tell NYU I want to send my 2003 tax return from when I worked in an ice cream store and not the one from 2023 where I work at a Hedge Fund.

So unfair that people want to judge me on what I actually have instead of conditions that don’t exist anymore!!! The nerve of people!!!!

No, a-hole, I want to be judged in the whole picture. Sorry that’s too reasonable a take for you to consider.

Schools aren’t stupid. You are not going to dollar cost average your way into aid.

You couldn’t save? No problem, borrow or pay out of cash flow. PLUS loans available for all in any amount you like.

(Some) CSS schools don’t ask about home equity because they are just curious.

this makes no sense. it's not what dollar cost averaging means and "schools aren't stupid" could easily be followed by, "these days they can take into account circumstances like elder care or special needs kids"

[Anonymous]

I'm all for the IRS getting more agents and for CSS profile for pulling 5-10 years of taxes.

I have nothing to hide.