Starter homes are now pre-fab Tiny homes: consider moving

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The housing crisis IS real and I sympathize with people who are feeling left out of the housing market. We (dual income early 40s) just bought our first house in 2022 when rates were beginning to shoot up. We likely overpaid but were desperate.

That said, I do wonder what exactly it is that people are defining as a "starter home." You're just not going to get a 3br 2ba for $250,000 here. You're just not. If that's what you are looking for, you need to move. Should you be able to find that for $500k? Yes, and you can. Fully 1/3 of the homes for sale in my GS6 DMV area code fit that description.

Where do you live? The only areas in the DMV where you can reliably find SFHs for 500k or less at this point (and I'm including townhomes in this even though they aren't technically SFHs but I think people should look at townhomes for starter home opportunities) is the eastern suburbs in Maryland. Places like Boie, Woodmore, Oxon Hill. And even in these places, I'm not sure if "fully 1/3" of homes coming on the market will be in that price range -- you still see plenty of 3/2 houses in those areas (many with dated kitchens and baths) for well over 500k.

If you want a home in the DMV for 500k or less, you are looking at:

- condo, which is fine (I live in a condo) but will not appreciate well and has other costs in the form of condo fees. Condos are also significantly less family friendly, due to both size and the fact that American-style condos/apartments are largely built with young professionals or retirees in mind (other countries where apartment-living is more standard and acceptable build family-friendly apartments, but we don't do that as much here)
- houses with something seriously wrong with them (whether it's structural issues, location on a dangerous road, layout so jacked as to be almost unlivable, etc.)
- townhouses in a handful of neighborhoods that tend to have abysmal (like not even mediocre, just actually bad) schools and frequently high crime

You can go further out and that's valid, but if you work in person at all (which the vast majority of people do -- the percent of the population that is full-time remote is still very small) living 45 minutes or more away from your job is not only a big quality of life issue, it can also be totally impossible if you have kids.

We are leaving the DMV in the next few years due to this issue -- we work in fields where we've pretty much topped out our income and we're never going to be able to buy a 700-800k home, and even if we could just scrimp and save to get to a big enough down payment where we could afford a house that price, by then those houses will all cost 900k-1 million. So we'll stick it out in our condo until we can figure out a lower COL area with our jobs.

But I get tired of people gaslighting me that the problem is that my standards are too high or that I want a 5 bedroom, fully updated house in the best school district with a playroom and a 3 car garage (I don't, it would never even occur to me to look for that). I want a 3 bedroom house (we would be willing to live with 1 bathroom if the price was right) in a reasonably safe neighborhood with a workable school situation and either access to public transportation or a driving commute of under 45 minutes each way (we will accept longer commutes if by metro or bus because it would save us money in not needing two cars). We've been looking for this for 5 years, every time we think we might be getting close, prices go up (or, more recently, rates go up while prices stay the same). It's just not going to happen.

I truly do not know where middle class workers are going to live in this area moving forward. If you're a teacher, better go marry a lawyer or consultant or hope you inherit a house from your parents or something.

You can join us in Bowie. https://www.redfin.com/city/2277/MD/Bowie

[Anonymous]

Of course, it's so simple! Why didn't anyone think of that before?

Oh wait, probably because even an unrenovated, 1,100sf, 1 bathroom house still costs $3,800 a month with $115,000 down!

https://www.redfin.com/VA/Falls-Church/3104-Dashiell-Rd-22042/home/9563164

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Abolish zoning and the free market will take care of the issue.

Everyone can check out Houston for a living example of zero zoning.

+1 particularly the town near Houston where the fertilizer factory right next to the elementary school exploded. No thanks.

I wouldn't mind a coffee shop down the street or a yoga studio next door.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The housing crisis IS real and I sympathize with people who are feeling left out of the housing market. We (dual income early 40s) just bought our first house in 2022 when rates were beginning to shoot up. We likely overpaid but were desperate.

That said, I do wonder what exactly it is that people are defining as a "starter home." You're just not going to get a 3br 2ba for $250,000 here. You're just not. If that's what you are looking for, you need to move. Should you be able to find that for $500k? Yes, and you can. Fully 1/3 of the homes for sale in my GS6 DMV area code fit that description.

Where do you live? The only areas in the DMV where you can reliably find SFHs for 500k or less at this point (and I'm including townhomes in this even though they aren't technically SFHs but I think people should look at townhomes for starter home opportunities) is the eastern suburbs in Maryland. Places like Boie, Woodmore, Oxon Hill. And even in these places, I'm not sure if "fully 1/3" of homes coming on the market will be in that price range -- you still see plenty of 3/2 houses in those areas (many with dated kitchens and baths) for well over 500k.

If you want a home in the DMV for 500k or less, you are looking at:

- condo, which is fine (I live in a condo) but will not appreciate well and has other costs in the form of condo fees. Condos are also significantly less family friendly, due to both size and the fact that American-style condos/apartments are largely built with young professionals or retirees in mind (other countries where apartment-living is more standard and acceptable build family-friendly apartments, but we don't do that as much here)
- houses with something seriously wrong with them (whether it's structural issues, location on a dangerous road, layout so jacked as to be almost unlivable, etc.)
- townhouses in a handful of neighborhoods that tend to have abysmal (like not even mediocre, just actually bad) schools and frequently high crime

You can go further out and that's valid, but if you work in person at all (which the vast majority of people do -- the percent of the population that is full-time remote is still very small) living 45 minutes or more away from your job is not only a big quality of life issue, it can also be totally impossible if you have kids.

We are leaving the DMV in the next few years due to this issue -- we work in fields where we've pretty much topped out our income and we're never going to be able to buy a 700-800k home, and even if we could just scrimp and save to get to a big enough down payment where we could afford a house that price, by then those houses will all cost 900k-1 million. So we'll stick it out in our condo until we can figure out a lower COL area with our jobs.

But I get tired of people gaslighting me that the problem is that my standards are too high or that I want a 5 bedroom, fully updated house in the best school district with a playroom and a 3 car garage (I don't, it would never even occur to me to look for that). I want a 3 bedroom house (we would be willing to live with 1 bathroom if the price was right) in a reasonably safe neighborhood with a workable school situation and either access to public transportation or a driving commute of under 45 minutes each way (we will accept longer commutes if by metro or bus because it would save us money in not needing two cars). We've been looking for this for 5 years, every time we think we might be getting close, prices go up (or, more recently, rates go up while prices stay the same). It's just not going to happen.

I truly do not know where middle class workers are going to live in this area moving forward. If you're a teacher, better go marry a lawyer or consultant or hope you inherit a house from your parents or something.

here you go:
https://www.redfin.com/MD/Rockville/4305-Federal-St-20853/home/11035248
https://www.redfin.com/MD/Rockville/13409-Keating-St-20853/home/11033765
https://www.redfin.com/MD/Rockville/13303-Keating-St-20853/home/11033825

[Anonymous]

Or one could do what my first cousin did who is 70. He bought a tiny plot of land where he wanted to retire at 25. He still lived at home and took a mortgage. He rented a cheap apt till he was around 40.

At 38 he bought a five story building with commercial tenants in four floors and lived on top floor. He was married with two very young kids.

Flash forward to 2024 he is retired. His small plot was in Montauk NY where he build his retirement home in 2015.

His five story brownstone is mortgage free and is in Gramercy park and other than ground level rental he has four floors.

was no get rich quick scheme

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Abolish zoning and the free market will take care of the issue.

In many places in the DMV, this would just lead to more rentals for investors. OP (and many people) are interested in buying a home.

[Anonymous]

Here is a 750sf single family home in DC for $52,0000

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/1335-Irving-St-NE-20017/home/10091717

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Here is a 750sf single family home in DC for $52,0000

https://www.redfin.com/DC/Washington/1335-Irving-St-NE-20017/home/10091717

It will be purchased by a developer for cash, torn down, and turned into 4 condos, the cheapest of which will sell for 600k.

My confidence in this prediction is 99.8%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Of course, it's so simple! Why didn't anyone think of that before?

Oh wait, probably because even an unrenovated, 1,100sf, 1 bathroom house still costs $3,800 a month with $115,000 down!

https://www.redfin.com/VA/Falls-Church/3104-Dashiell-Rd-22042/home/9563164

Okay...its a lot. But many families pushing for a $700K income house on 2-incomes could take that and do a guy renovation to add a floor and extra ground space. The cost with a home loan would be less than what they originally wanted to qualify for.