Why Two Parents Are The Ultimate Privilege

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Why should be incentivize marriage, OP?

Dp. Heard a really good interview with her on npr. Basically she argues we throw tons of money at school and welfare programs for struggling kids and get very poor outcomes for that money (especially for boys.). If we instead invested in getting and keeping parents married we’d be making a much better investment.

The trick is how do you do that? And her answer seems to be we need to ensure good paying blue collar jobs for men. Otherwise women cant/won’t marry them when they get pregnant.

That’s fine but we also need to make birth control easy and free, especially post Dobbs. Many/most of these single parents can’t afford the kid from the start.

Birth control is easy and free. People are idiots.

-woman who has gotten intentionally pregant on the first time 3 times and never accidentally

Only if you have health insurance which is neither easy nor free in our country. Birth control should be available from a pharmacist.

Insurance is literally required by the government. If you can't afford insurance Medicaid is available. BC is also available at Planned Parenthood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This is a correlation vs causation thing. People who value stability, conformity, delayed gratification etc tend to get married. These values are then applied to parenting leading to better outcomes for their children.

Silly comment. Since time immemorial a large percentage of marriages have been at the end of a shotgun due to pending parenthood. That is the exact opposite of delayed gratification being correlated with marriage. Today there are fewer marriages forced by pregnancy, but plenty of people rushing to the altar for stupid reasons like keeping up with their friends and getting the loot and the IG-worthy destination wedding photos, etc. and the persistently high divorce rates consequent to both kinds of jumping the gun on real commitment.

Human beings are typically horny and impulsive today, just as always.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The amount of people choosing to not get married because they'll lose the earned income tax credit is a nonissue, I promise. This type of person doesn't think about stuff like that.

You are absolutely wrong. I work at a place where there are a lot of women with only a high school degree. Yeah, they actually do think about finances a lot because they are barely making ends meet. Several of them cohabitate because being head of household for tax reasons is far better than married with two children. They get better health insurance through medicaid than our work, their kids get subsidized child care and summer camps, etc.

A few years ago I helped someone at my job apply for medicaid when they were pregnant because they wanted help understanding if it was better to use the awful health insurance work has or use medicaid. After work I showed her the pros and cons in regards to head of household vs married for taxes and for health insurance and for assistance. I have two cousins who are social workers who explained it all to me. Since then others have come to me and asked the same type of questions and I will help them apply using a laptop I bring in from home. Instead most of them use their smartphones. I print out charts so they can use to their advantage the last paycheck or their W-2 for benefits. Or say this month don't pick up any overtime and apply next month because you are $100 over the limit for something like free lunch.

There are certain communities that are really good at knowing the system and legally getting the maximum benefits. I don't want to name them but for the most part they are not black or latino.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a correlation vs causation thing. People who value stability, conformity, delayed gratification etc tend to get married. These values are then applied to parenting leading to better outcomes for their children.

Silly comment. Since time immemorial a large percentage of marriages have been at the end of a shotgun due to pending parenthood. That is the exact opposite of delayed gratification being correlated with marriage. Today there are fewer marriages forced by pregnancy, but plenty of people rushing to the altar for stupid reasons like keeping up with their friends and getting the loot and the IG-worthy destination wedding photos, etc. and the persistently high divorce rates consequent to both kinds of jumping the gun on real commitment.

Human beings are typically horny and impulsive today, just as always.

The US divorce rate is at a 40 year low.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The amount of people choosing to not get married because they'll lose the earned income tax credit is a nonissue, I promise. This type of person doesn't think about stuff like that.

You are absolutely wrong. I work at a place where there are a lot of women with only a high school degree. Yeah, they actually do think about finances a lot because they are barely making ends meet. Several of them cohabitate because being head of household for tax reasons is far better than married with two children. They get better health insurance through medicaid than our work, their kids get subsidized child care and summer camps, etc.

A few years ago I helped someone at my job apply for medicaid when they were pregnant because they wanted help understanding if it was better to use the awful health insurance work has or use medicaid. After work I showed her the pros and cons in regards to head of household vs married for taxes and for health insurance and for assistance. I have two cousins who are social workers who explained it all to me. Since then others have come to me and asked the same type of questions and I will help them apply using a laptop I bring in from home. Instead most of them use their smartphones. I print out charts so they can use to their advantage the last paycheck or their W-2 for benefits. Or say this month don't pick up any overtime and apply next month because you are $100 over the limit for something like free lunch.

There are certain communities that are really good at knowing the system and legally getting the maximum benefits. I don't want to name them but for the most part they are not black or latino.

We're not talking about qualifying for medicaid or other services, we're talking specifically about the earned income tax credit. How many people with only a high school degree know that the EITC is and base their life choices around it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a correlation vs causation thing. People who value stability, conformity, delayed gratification etc tend to get married. These values are then applied to parenting leading to better outcomes for their children.

Silly comment. Since time immemorial a large percentage of marriages have been at the end of a shotgun due to pending parenthood. That is the exact opposite of delayed gratification being correlated with marriage. Today there are fewer marriages forced by pregnancy, but plenty of people rushing to the altar for stupid reasons like keeping up with their friends and getting the loot and the IG-worthy destination wedding photos, etc. and the persistently high divorce rates consequent to both kinds of jumping the gun on real commitment.

Human beings are typically horny and impulsive today, just as always.

The US divorce rate is at a 40 year low.

Are you for real? Do you think that statistic means anything out of context of the US marriage rate?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is a correlation vs causation thing. People who value stability, conformity, delayed gratification etc tend to get married. These values are then applied to parenting leading to better outcomes for their children.

Silly comment. Since time immemorial a large percentage of marriages have been at the end of a shotgun due to pending parenthood. That is the exact opposite of delayed gratification being correlated with marriage. Today there are fewer marriages forced by pregnancy, but plenty of people rushing to the altar for stupid reasons like keeping up with their friends and getting the loot and the IG-worthy destination wedding photos, etc. and the persistently high divorce rates consequent to both kinds of jumping the gun on real commitment.

Human beings are typically horny and impulsive today, just as always.

The US divorce rate is at a 40 year low.

Are you for real? Do you think that statistic means anything out of context of the US marriage rate?

Are you for real? Do you not understand that marriages are also at an all time low?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:An interesting interview from Bari Weiss with a UMD Economist, Melissa Kearney, grappling with shifting economic landscapes, optimal family formation and the impact on the development of children. It's interesting that she seems to have gotten so much pushback from colleagues within academia and even editors and the University of Chicago Press regarding the topic and that such a topic, which should be thoroughly researched and discussed, has people walking on eggshells.

https://www.thefp.com/p/why-two-parents-are-the-ultimate-privilege

One summary quote:

Even though we don’t explicitly disincentivize marriage now, our tax and transfer system does implicitly disincentivize marriage. For example, if you’re married and you’re both working, you’re much less likely to qualify for the earned income tax credit because our tax code works where you pool the income across two people. So a woman who might be on the margin of making $30,000 gets the earned income tax credit. If she marries that guy making $50,000, her and her child lose the earned income tax credit and lose Medicaid. This gives her the incentive to cohabit instead of getting married. And so our tax and transfer system unintentionally does discourage marriage—at least between two people who work. We should be getting rid of all of those legacy effects

Oof to the bolded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The amount of people choosing to not get married because they'll lose the earned income tax credit is a nonissue, I promise. This type of person doesn't think about stuff like that.

You are absolutely wrong. I work at a place where there are a lot of women with only a high school degree. Yeah, they actually do think about finances a lot because they are barely making ends meet. Several of them cohabitate because being head of household for tax reasons is far better than married with two children. They get better health insurance through medicaid than our work, their kids get subsidized child care and summer camps, etc.

A few years ago I helped someone at my job apply for medicaid when they were pregnant because they wanted help understanding if it was better to use the awful health insurance work has or use medicaid. After work I showed her the pros and cons in regards to head of household vs married for taxes and for health insurance and for assistance. I have two cousins who are social workers who explained it all to me. Since then others have come to me and asked the same type of questions and I will help them apply using a laptop I bring in from home. Instead most of them use their smartphones. I print out charts so they can use to their advantage the last paycheck or their W-2 for benefits. Or say this month don't pick up any overtime and apply next month because you are $100 over the limit for something like free lunch.

There are certain communities that are really good at knowing the system and legally getting the maximum benefits. I don't want to name them but for the most part they are not black or latino.

So, white or Asian? Or both, since yet is plural, “communities”?

[Anonymous]

People on this thread are saying the women don’t marry the men because they don’t have good jobs but here’s Janet Yellen in 1996 saying the men don’t marry the women because they don’t have to any more.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/an-analysis-of-out-of-wedlock-births-in-the-united-states/

I had a personally illuminating moment about this when a woman I knew tangentially had a baby and dropped out of college. I was dumbfounded that she would do that - she was the first in her family to go. When I saw her with the baby she was filled with love and joy from the baby which is of course great! Basically the pull of being a mother outweighed the prospect of college and career, or she thought she could have both. The dad was…fine? I don’t know if she thought he’d step up or not or just thought he was good enough but they weren’t married.

There seems to be a real need for more research into what makes women decide to get pregnant when they do.

[Anonymous]

The idea that people wouldn’t work the ins and outs of government assistance is crazy. Any kind of asset people are going to try to maximize. This is like clocking in on time at a job or cops working overtime or anything like that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The amount of people choosing to not get married because they'll lose the earned income tax credit is a nonissue, I promise. This type of person doesn't think about stuff like that.

You are absolutely wrong. I work at a place where there are a lot of women with only a high school degree. Yeah, they actually do think about finances a lot because they are barely making ends meet. Several of them cohabitate because being head of household for tax reasons is far better than married with two children. They get better health insurance through medicaid than our work, their kids get subsidized child care and summer camps, etc.

A few years ago I helped someone at my job apply for medicaid when they were pregnant because they wanted help understanding if it was better to use the awful health insurance work has or use medicaid. After work I showed her the pros and cons in regards to head of household vs married for taxes and for health insurance and for assistance. I have two cousins who are social workers who explained it all to me. Since then others have come to me and asked the same type of questions and I will help them apply using a laptop I bring in from home. Instead most of them use their smartphones. I print out charts so they can use to their advantage the last paycheck or their W-2 for benefits. Or say this month don't pick up any overtime and apply next month because you are $100 over the limit for something like free lunch.

There are certain communities that are really good at knowing the system and legally getting the maximum benefits. I don't want to name them but for the most part they are not black or latino.

So, white or Asian? Or both, since yet is plural, “communities”?

In my experience the communities that practice polygamy are very good at this (and I'm not talking about Mormons who have their own private welfare system.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Why should be incentivize marriage, OP?

Because children raised in 2 parent households (generally marriage) are far less of a blight on society.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The amount of people choosing to not get married because they'll lose the earned income tax credit is a nonissue, I promise. This type of person doesn't think about stuff like that.

My thoughts exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:People on this thread are saying the women don’t marry the men because they don’t have good jobs but here’s Janet Yellen in 1996 saying the men don’t marry the women because they don’t have to any more.

https://www.brookings.edu/articles/an-analysis-of-out-of-wedlock-births-in-the-united-states/

I had a personally illuminating moment about this when a woman I knew tangentially had a baby and dropped out of college. I was dumbfounded that she would do that - she was the first in her family to go. When I saw her with the baby she was filled with love and joy from the baby which is of course great! Basically the pull of being a mother outweighed the prospect of college and career, or she thought she could have both. The dad was…fine? I don’t know if she thought he’d step up or not or just thought he was good enough but they weren’t married.

There seems to be a real need for more research into what makes women decide to get pregnant when they do.

Women who are raised with healthy and secure parental love and know their worth don't have to have a baby with a dud to experience this love and joy from a baby before they even finish college.