Counting down until kids leave to divorce

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really wish people realized that its damaging to the kids when you stay unhappily married until the youngest is out of the house. People seem to have this naive idea that staying doesn't mess kids up too.

So true. My parents were married for 52 years - until my mother died suddenly. My mother made my father miserable. By the time my sibling and I were teens we could see it and were telling my dad "If you want to divorce mom, we'll support you." In our early 20's we would even tell him when we'd find a nice woman for him to date. What the hell do you think I was thinking watching my dad come home from work day after day and go over and kiss my mother hello and look like he was doing it out of obligation? What do you think I thought of my mother any time my dad talked about doing something fun (like once a month poker game with my uncle and their friends) and my mother would make comments like "If I let you," and "So you're going to leave me home alone?" as if she couldn't go out and do her own thing. The only time I saw him hold her hand was if they were walking on ice or she was unsteady on her feet. I never saw them hug.

When she died I had no respect for her as a wife. She was an example of what NOT to do, of the relationship dynamic NOT to create in my own marriage. My father, as far as my brother and I know, never ever cheated. We're not even sure he watched porn. He was loyal, and totally miserable.

What made you think he was miserable?

And were their roles & responsibilities on the homefront during the 18 years you were home or visiting thereafter?

+1

Your dad chose to remain married. And it can’t be just for the kids because he remained married after you left. Live your life how you want and give others the right to live theirs how they want.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is like a weekly thread. So sad.

It is sad. But not everyone in life gets lucky in marriage.

The problem is thinking it’s luck.

It is luck. Many things can happen in a marriage that one might not be able to forsee. On paper, it looked perfect. In reality, it was hell. Abusers don't show their colors until they think they have you...that is either with marriage or a birth of a child. Stop patting yourself on the back. Many people did everythng right, picked the right partners, and ended up with liars or abusers.

+1. The smug retorts are really over the top. Having a great marriage that you worked hard on doesn’t mean you didn’t also get lucky. Why is this hard for people to accept? You think the people in bad marriages didn’t work hard? The need to crow about your marriage success is remarkably obtuse.

Totally agree. I have come (very painfully) to realize that luck is a major element in marriage. It doesn't even have to be something as dramatic as an abuser waiting to trap you. It can just be the fact that people's personalities do not completely reveal themselves all at once (or even in 1-2 years of dating) and people's personalities change over time. Dating leading to marriage happens during a relatively carefree part of life. You really have no idea how the stressors of middle age will change someone. No amount of therapy, counseling, or "working on it" can eliminate this problem. For some people it pans out, for others it doesn't.

+1
I was in countdown for 6 years. Last 2 years were torture with COVID lockdown and everyone at home. Impossible to fake it around the kids. I’d hated/resented DH for so long at that point. Honeslty don’t not know how I got through each day. DH started out as a great Dad/husband. Helped w/the kids/household chores about 40/60 split. It was hard as we both worked F/T no parents nearby.Things inevitably started to get stressful as the years wore on. Arguments over the plummeting 40/60 split led me to take on more to minimize the fighting about it. Despite this his patience as a parent faded. He felt he had NO time to himself. So I took on even more and eventually in effect became a single parent. The kids noticed. As teens they avoided him b/c he now had a hair trigger. DCs asked me why I stayed married to him, said he basically was like a boarder in our home. They had no memory of when he’d been a good father/spouse.

I stayed b/c DH would have been a horrible EX. We had separated for few months when they were ages 7-11. He insisted on 50/50 b/c he was ‘already doing 50/50’ (i guess that’s ‘Dad Math’?). It was horrible for the kids. They missed all their appts, play dates and ate Pizza, gas station hot dogs or McDonald’s every night when w/him. Had no clean clothes. After about 2 months he acknowledged it was hard and I’d being doing more than he realized. Came back saying he’d change and did for few months, but then we fell back into the routine. He would yell, start a fight, complain and I would pick up more of the responsiblities. I resigned myself to the reality and started the countdown.

When there were 3 days left on the clock my youngest (about to move into college dorm, the one who had REALLY wanted me to leave DH) suddenly asked me if she’d still be able to come ‘home’ to her room/stuff at Thanksgiving break. I decided to add some time to the countdown clock. Spent those 1st few empty nest months doing trips I’d always wanted to do (but DH didn’t want to do). Surprisingly DH became much more pleasant to be around. Now that he had all of his time, and no longer had to compete for my attention, he become more tolerable to be around. So I added more time to the countdown clock. I’m now about 18 months into OT and am still not sure we will stay married but the odds have definitely shifted. Kids leaving is a huge transition for everyone. Unless you are in an abusive situation I recommend waiting to see how the marriage changes during that transition. It also helps to have a plan for what YOU want in your empty nest phase. DH wanted kids, but the reality of having kids was apparently not what he wanted. I still resent him for that. But am now fully focused on my new empty nest life - some of which includes him but much of it does not. The resentment has faded some and I’m seeing glimmers of how he will be a good grandparent one day. I want to be a part of that. He still has work to do but in an empty nest the balance of power has evened out. He’s had to figure out how to buy groceries/cook food/etc. When kids visit or come home for break they get along better with him. Their relationship w/him is imprving which is good for them. They see that I’m happy and know I’m taking it one day at a time and are okay with that.

I read a lot of these posts and usually never feel anything but I feel very sad that you stayed with this manbaby and continue to stay with him because now he manages to cook himself dinner. I get it and understand 100% and would probably do the same thing, maybe that's why it's so upsetting to me.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Who else?

How many years left?

I have 10

That’s a horribly long time for faking it

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really wish people realized that its damaging to the kids when you stay unhappily married until the youngest is out of the house. People seem to have this naive idea that staying doesn't mess kids up too.

I read a book about this and the therapist who wrote the book basically said that if you are somewhat amicable low conflict roommates it’s better for the kids than divorce. Kids are not THAT aware or interested with what is going on with their parents. They worry about themselves. If you can provide them a safe and peaceful home they are fine. YMMV.

Yeah. I’m cringing at the idea that kids care about their parents’ sexual or romantic fulfillment.

Most kids want to pretend that their parents are asexual beings and prefer not to dwell too much on the logistics of their origins. Amicable roommates is a much preferred arrangement than creepy stepdad or stepmom who doesn’t want you around. That dynamic is infinitely more stressful and complicated to navigate at a time when kids’ attention should be rightfully focused on securing their own future not facilitating mom or dad’s romantic relationships. Yuck.

Now that you put it that way. I agree.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is like a weekly thread. So sad.

It is sad. But not everyone in life gets lucky in marriage.

The problem is thinking it’s luck.

It is luck. Many things can happen in a marriage that one might not be able to forsee. On paper, it looked perfect. In reality, it was hell. Abusers don't show their colors until they think they have you...that is either with marriage or a birth of a child. Stop patting yourself on the back. Many people did everythng right, picked the right partners, and ended up with liars or abusers.

+1. The smug retorts are really over the top. Having a great marriage that you worked hard on doesn’t mean you didn’t also get lucky. Why is this hard for people to accept? You think the people in bad marriages didn’t work hard? The need to crow about your marriage success is remarkably obtuse.

Totally agree. I have come (very painfully) to realize that luck is a major element in marriage. It doesn't even have to be something as dramatic as an abuser waiting to trap you. It can just be the fact that people's personalities do not completely reveal themselves all at once (or even in 1-2 years of dating) and people's personalities change over time. Dating leading to marriage happens during a relatively carefree part of life. You really have no idea how the stressors of middle age will change someone. No amount of therapy, counseling, or "working on it" can eliminate this problem. For some people it pans out, for others it doesn't.

+1
I was in countdown for 6 years. Last 2 years were torture with COVID lockdown and everyone at home. Impossible to fake it around the kids. I’d hated/resented DH for so long at that point. Honeslty don’t not know how I got through each day. DH started out as a great Dad/husband. Helped w/the kids/household chores about 40/60 split. It was hard as we both worked F/T no parents nearby.Things inevitably started to get stressful as the years wore on. Arguments over the plummeting 40/60 split led me to take on more to minimize the fighting about it. Despite this his patience as a parent faded. He felt he had NO time to himself. So I took on even more and eventually in effect became a single parent. The kids noticed. As teens they avoided him b/c he now had a hair trigger. DCs asked me why I stayed married to him, said he basically was like a boarder in our home. They had no memory of when he’d been a good father/spouse.

I stayed b/c DH would have been a horrible EX. We had separated for few months when they were ages 7-11. He insisted on 50/50 b/c he was ‘already doing 50/50’ (i guess that’s ‘Dad Math’?). It was horrible for the kids. They missed all their appts, play dates and ate Pizza, gas station hot dogs or McDonald’s every night when w/him. Had no clean clothes. After about 2 months he acknowledged it was hard and I’d being doing more than he realized. Came back saying he’d change and did for few months, but then we fell back into the routine. He would yell, start a fight, complain and I would pick up more of the responsiblities. I resigned myself to the reality and started the countdown.

When there were 3 days left on the clock my youngest (about to move into college dorm, the one who had REALLY wanted me to leave DH) suddenly asked me if she’d still be able to come ‘home’ to her room/stuff at Thanksgiving break. I decided to add some time to the countdown clock. Spent those 1st few empty nest months doing trips I’d always wanted to do (but DH didn’t want to do). Surprisingly DH became much more pleasant to be around. Now that he had all of his time, and no longer had to compete for my attention, he become more tolerable to be around. So I added more time to the countdown clock. I’m now about 18 months into OT and am still not sure we will stay married but the odds have definitely shifted. Kids leaving is a huge transition for everyone. Unless you are in an abusive situation I recommend waiting to see how the marriage changes during that transition. It also helps to have a plan for what YOU want in your empty nest phase. DH wanted kids, but the reality of having kids was apparently not what he wanted. I still resent him for that. But am now fully focused on my new empty nest life - some of which includes him but much of it does not. The resentment has faded some and I’m seeing glimmers of how he will be a good grandparent one day. I want to be a part of that. He still has work to do but in an empty nest the balance of power has evened out. He’s had to figure out how to buy groceries/cook food/etc. When kids visit or come home for break they get along better with him. Their relationship w/him is imprving which is good for them. They see that I’m happy and know I’m taking it one day at a time and are okay with that.

I get this. I could see myself weighing this same decision, regarding overtime doing things mostly that just I like to do.

But what about sex? I’m on the countdown clock to divorce but can’t picture myself staying because I can’t reconcile the rest of my “good years” (probably won’t be more than 10-12 before I hit menopause) being unfulfilled. We’ve been living as roommates for years, I want that part of my life back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is like a weekly thread. So sad.

It is sad. But not everyone in life gets lucky in marriage.

The problem is thinking it’s luck.

It is luck. Many things can happen in a marriage that one might not be able to forsee. On paper, it looked perfect. In reality, it was hell. Abusers don't show their colors until they think they have you...that is either with marriage or a birth of a child. Stop patting yourself on the back. Many people did everythng right, picked the right partners, and ended up with liars or abusers.

+1. The smug retorts are really over the top. Having a great marriage that you worked hard on doesn’t mean you didn’t also get lucky. Why is this hard for people to accept? You think the people in bad marriages didn’t work hard? The need to crow about your marriage success is remarkably obtuse.

Totally agree. I have come (very painfully) to realize that luck is a major element in marriage. It doesn't even have to be something as dramatic as an abuser waiting to trap you. It can just be the fact that people's personalities do not completely reveal themselves all at once (or even in 1-2 years of dating) and people's personalities change over time. Dating leading to marriage happens during a relatively carefree part of life. You really have no idea how the stressors of middle age will change someone. No amount of therapy, counseling, or "working on it" can eliminate this problem. For some people it pans out, for others it doesn't.

+1
I was in countdown for 6 years. Last 2 years were torture with COVID lockdown and everyone at home. Impossible to fake it around the kids. I’d hated/resented DH for so long at that point. Honeslty don’t not know how I got through each day. DH started out as a great Dad/husband. Helped w/the kids/household chores about 40/60 split. It was hard as we both worked F/T no parents nearby.Things inevitably started to get stressful as the years wore on. Arguments over the plummeting 40/60 split led me to take on more to minimize the fighting about it. Despite this his patience as a parent faded. He felt he had NO time to himself. So I took on even more and eventually in effect became a single parent. The kids noticed. As teens they avoided him b/c he now had a hair trigger. DCs asked me why I stayed married to him, said he basically was like a boarder in our home. They had no memory of when he’d been a good father/spouse.

I stayed b/c DH would have been a horrible EX. We had separated for few months when they were ages 7-11. He insisted on 50/50 b/c he was ‘already doing 50/50’ (i guess that’s ‘Dad Math’?). It was horrible for the kids. They missed all their appts, play dates and ate Pizza, gas station hot dogs or McDonald’s every night when w/him. Had no clean clothes. After about 2 months he acknowledged it was hard and I’d being doing more than he realized. Came back saying he’d change and did for few months, but then we fell back into the routine. He would yell, start a fight, complain and I would pick up more of the responsiblities. I resigned myself to the reality and started the countdown.

When there were 3 days left on the clock my youngest (about to move into college dorm, the one who had REALLY wanted me to leave DH) suddenly asked me if she’d still be able to come ‘home’ to her room/stuff at Thanksgiving break. I decided to add some time to the countdown clock. Spent those 1st few empty nest months doing trips I’d always wanted to do (but DH didn’t want to do). Surprisingly DH became much more pleasant to be around. Now that he had all of his time, and no longer had to compete for my attention, he become more tolerable to be around. So I added more time to the countdown clock. I’m now about 18 months into OT and am still not sure we will stay married but the odds have definitely shifted. Kids leaving is a huge transition for everyone. Unless you are in an abusive situation I recommend waiting to see how the marriage changes during that transition. It also helps to have a plan for what YOU want in your empty nest phase. DH wanted kids, but the reality of having kids was apparently not what he wanted. I still resent him for that. But am now fully focused on my new empty nest life - some of which includes him but much of it does not. The resentment has faded some and I’m seeing glimmers of how he will be a good grandparent one day. I want to be a part of that. He still has work to do but in an empty nest the balance of power has evened out. He’s had to figure out how to buy groceries/cook food/etc. When kids visit or come home for break they get along better with him. Their relationship w/him is imprving which is good for them. They see that I’m happy and know I’m taking it one day at a time and are okay with that.

I’m glad things are looking up for you. You mentioned Covid and reminded me of my favorite joke. (I sent this to all my friends and family in March 2020 and nobody understood the joke except my dad.)

https://m.youtube.com/shorts/7d1_mBBmOZg

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is like a weekly thread. So sad.

It is sad. But not everyone in life gets lucky in marriage.

The problem is thinking it’s luck.

It is luck. Many things can happen in a marriage that one might not be able to forsee. On paper, it looked perfect. In reality, it was hell. Abusers don't show their colors until they think they have you...that is either with marriage or a birth of a child. Stop patting yourself on the back. Many people did everythng right, picked the right partners, and ended up with liars or abusers.

+1. The smug retorts are really over the top. Having a great marriage that you worked hard on doesn’t mean you didn’t also get lucky. Why is this hard for people to accept? You think the people in bad marriages didn’t work hard? The need to crow about your marriage success is remarkably obtuse.

Totally agree. I have come (very painfully) to realize that luck is a major element in marriage. It doesn't even have to be something as dramatic as an abuser waiting to trap you. It can just be the fact that people's personalities do not completely reveal themselves all at once (or even in 1-2 years of dating) and people's personalities change over time. Dating leading to marriage happens during a relatively carefree part of life. You really have no idea how the stressors of middle age will change someone. No amount of therapy, counseling, or "working on it" can eliminate this problem. For some people it pans out, for others it doesn't.

+1
I was in countdown for 6 years. Last 2 years were torture with COVID lockdown and everyone at home. Impossible to fake it around the kids. I’d hated/resented DH for so long at that point. Honeslty don’t not know how I got through each day. DH started out as a great Dad/husband. Helped w/the kids/household chores about 40/60 split. It was hard as we both worked F/T no parents nearby.Things inevitably started to get stressful as the years wore on. Arguments over the plummeting 40/60 split led me to take on more to minimize the fighting about it. Despite this his patience as a parent faded. He felt he had NO time to himself. So I took on even more and eventually in effect became a single parent. The kids noticed. As teens they avoided him b/c he now had a hair trigger. DCs asked me why I stayed married to him, said he basically was like a boarder in our home. They had no memory of when he’d been a good father/spouse.

I stayed b/c DH would have been a horrible EX. We had separated for few months when they were ages 7-11. He insisted on 50/50 b/c he was ‘already doing 50/50’ (i guess that’s ‘Dad Math’?). It was horrible for the kids. They missed all their appts, play dates and ate Pizza, gas station hot dogs or McDonald’s every night when w/him. Had no clean clothes. After about 2 months he acknowledged it was hard and I’d being doing more than he realized. Came back saying he’d change and did for few months, but then we fell back into the routine. He would yell, start a fight, complain and I would pick up more of the responsiblities. I resigned myself to the reality and started the countdown.

When there were 3 days left on the clock my youngest (about to move into college dorm, the one who had REALLY wanted me to leave DH) suddenly asked me if she’d still be able to come ‘home’ to her room/stuff at Thanksgiving break. I decided to add some time to the countdown clock. Spent those 1st few empty nest months doing trips I’d always wanted to do (but DH didn’t want to do). Surprisingly DH became much more pleasant to be around. Now that he had all of his time, and no longer had to compete for my attention, he become more tolerable to be around. So I added more time to the countdown clock. I’m now about 18 months into OT and am still not sure we will stay married but the odds have definitely shifted. Kids leaving is a huge transition for everyone. Unless you are in an abusive situation I recommend waiting to see how the marriage changes during that transition. It also helps to have a plan for what YOU want in your empty nest phase. DH wanted kids, but the reality of having kids was apparently not what he wanted. I still resent him for that. But am now fully focused on my new empty nest life - some of which includes him but much of it does not. The resentment has faded some and I’m seeing glimmers of how he will be a good grandparent one day. I want to be a part of that. He still has work to do but in an empty nest the balance of power has evened out. He’s had to figure out how to buy groceries/cook food/etc. When kids visit or come home for break they get along better with him. Their relationship w/him is imprving which is good for them. They see that I’m happy and know I’m taking it one day at a time and are okay with that.

This is us, with some very significant mental health issues/ possible personality disorder thrown in.

We tried a separation for a few months (kids ages similar to yours). Nightmare. He harassed me endlessly. He was a takeout and TV dad. Argued with me about having to take them to extracurriculars on his time.

I am back in the house, and with every passing day it becomes more clear to me that my feelings for him are dead. At least the kids get good meals and have a consistent parent.

I have equanimity about it most days. I have a job a love, great friends, family I am close to, and my own interests and life. My world does not revolve around him.

Where I feel the most resentment is when he drops everything on me because he just can’t deal. It is VERY hard to do things for someone who you don’t care a bit for anymore.

[Anonymous]

^^ my issue is that there was verbal and emotional abuse. Since ending the separation we have been in counseling and the behavior is a lot better. But I just don’t see the love coming back at this point. It would be a marriage of convenience with respectful/dutiful behavior, at best.

PP do you ever have regrets for staying? It sounds like no.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:^^ my issue is that there was verbal and emotional abuse. Since ending the separation we have been in counseling and the behavior is a lot better. But I just don’t see the love coming back at this point. It would be a marriage of convenience with respectful/dutiful behavior, at best.

PP do you ever have regrets for staying? It sounds like no.

My DH was abusive, pp. I was so over him and was desperate to leave. Counseling actually helped him because he wanted to change. I have been able to gain my feelings back, to a certain extent. You have to be open to loving them again if they truly change, and that takes time and a lot of therapy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ my issue is that there was verbal and emotional abuse. Since ending the separation we have been in counseling and the behavior is a lot better. But I just don’t see the love coming back at this point. It would be a marriage of convenience with respectful/dutiful behavior, at best.

PP do you ever have regrets for staying? It sounds like no.

My DH was abusive, pp. I was so over him and was desperate to leave. Counseling actually helped him because he wanted to change. I have been able to gain my feelings back, to a certain extent. You have to be open to loving them again if they truly change, and that takes time and a lot of therapy.

PP here.

I am seeing behavior changes but no contrition or acknowledgement. It’s like he insists on playing the victim and trying to manipulate in more subtle ways, although a lot of the overt intimidation — yelling, threats, and false accusations — has dissipated.

I am really over it. I can hardly stand to be in therapy with him, because it means hearing him dodge and avoid any actual responsibility. I’m just very tired.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the point of staying for the kids?

To avoid the custody battle?

If both are miserable in the marriage and want a divorce and only staying for the kids, why would custody be an issue? If the mother was the primary parent, I doubt the dad is suddenly looking to take full custody of young kids or even 50%, if he was the bread winner. They usually just want the weekends or a holiday here and there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^ my issue is that there was verbal and emotional abuse. Since ending the separation we have been in counseling and the behavior is a lot better. But I just don’t see the love coming back at this point. It would be a marriage of convenience with respectful/dutiful behavior, at best.

PP do you ever have regrets for staying? It sounds like no.

My DH was abusive, pp. I was so over him and was desperate to leave. Counseling actually helped him because he wanted to change. I have been able to gain my feelings back, to a certain extent. You have to be open to loving them again if they truly change, and that takes time and a lot of therapy.

PP here.

I am seeing behavior changes but no contrition or acknowledgement. It’s like he insists on playing the victim and trying to manipulate in more subtle ways, although a lot of the overt intimidation — yelling, threats, and false accusations — has dissipated.

I am really over it. I can hardly stand to be in therapy with him, because it means hearing him dodge and avoid any actual responsibility. I’m just very tired.

I get it. I absolutely get it. Basically the only reason to give this person a chance is for the sake of your children. Don't have super high expectations for contrition or acknowledgement. I guess it is hard to step back and admit you were being a miserable bastard. It's going to take a ton of therapy before he gets to that point. And if he ever does apologize or acknowledge what he has done, don't expect repeats. Just let the past go. The behavior change is the acknowledgement. But if he is able to improve over time and not fall back into old habits, that's a really big deal. Give it more time. Focus on yourself and making yourself happy and your own healing. Go out with friends, exercise, find new hobbies. And don't try to make yourself forgive him or love him, and don't feel like a chump for staying. You are trying to preserve your marriage and family and that is admirable. If your feelings do return, that is great. If not, you can figure out what to do.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really wish people realized that its damaging to the kids when you stay unhappily married until the youngest is out of the house. People seem to have this naive idea that staying doesn't mess kids up too.

So true. My parents were married for 52 years - until my mother died suddenly. My mother made my father miserable. By the time my sibling and I were teens we could see it and were telling my dad "If you want to divorce mom, we'll support you." In our early 20's we would even tell him when we'd find a nice woman for him to date. What the hell do you think I was thinking watching my dad come home from work day after day and go over and kiss my mother hello and look like he was doing it out of obligation? What do you think I thought of my mother any time my dad talked about doing something fun (like once a month poker game with my uncle and their friends) and my mother would make comments like "If I let you," and "So you're going to leave me home alone?" as if she couldn't go out and do her own thing. The only time I saw him hold her hand was if they were walking on ice or she was unsteady on her feet. I never saw them hug.

When she died I had no respect for her as a wife. She was an example of what NOT to do, of the relationship dynamic NOT to create in my own marriage. My father, as far as my brother and I know, never ever cheated. We're not even sure he watched porn. He was loyal, and totally miserable.

What made you think he was miserable?

And were their roles & responsibilities on the homefront during the 18 years you were home or visiting thereafter?

+1

Your dad chose to remain married. And it can’t be just for the kids because he remained married after you left. Live your life how you want and give others the right to live theirs how they want.

Maybe SHE was miserable.

Instead of calling your mom a nag, open your eye and see if your dad was a respectful partner and tidy to live with.

I’d crack a joke too if a slob at home was bragging about going out for poker night and leaving his mess in half the rooms for the Magic Fairy to tidy up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really wish people realized that its damaging to the kids when you stay unhappily married until the youngest is out of the house. People seem to have this naive idea that staying doesn't mess kids up too.

So true. My parents were married for 52 years - until my mother died suddenly. My mother made my father miserable. By the time my sibling and I were teens we could see it and were telling my dad "If you want to divorce mom, we'll support you." In our early 20's we would even tell him when we'd find a nice woman for him to date. What the hell do you think I was thinking watching my dad come home from work day after day and go over and kiss my mother hello and look like he was doing it out of obligation? What do you think I thought of my mother any time my dad talked about doing something fun (like once a month poker game with my uncle and their friends) and my mother would make comments like "If I let you," and "So you're going to leave me home alone?" as if she couldn't go out and do her own thing. The only time I saw him hold her hand was if they were walking on ice or she was unsteady on her feet. I never saw them hug.

When she died I had no respect for her as a wife. She was an example of what NOT to do, of the relationship dynamic NOT to create in my own marriage. My father, as far as my brother and I know, never ever cheated. We're not even sure he watched porn. He was loyal, and totally miserable.

Maybe she was in the spectrum and didn’t give two F’s about emotions or communication.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What's the point of staying for the kids?

To avoid the custody battle?

If both are miserable in the marriage and want a divorce and only staying for the kids, why would custody be an issue? If the mother was the primary parent, I doubt the dad is suddenly looking to take full custody of young kids or even 50%, if he was the bread winner. They usually just want the weekends or a holiday here and there.

Mine says he will fight for 50/50 custody. I believe he will. Not because he really thinks he can co-parent 50% of the time, but because he is angry with me. The kids will suffer shuffling between two homes, especially because he is depressed and irresponsible and not trying to get help. I am trying to create my own happy life within this home for the next few years.