How much does undergrad matter if planning on going on to a Ph.D.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Matters a lot more than for professional school. You need strong preparation for PhD. Those dead end degrees are extremely competitivez weirdly.

So, I guess “dead end” is a misnomer?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that GPA and research experience are critical and would add recommendations. If you can publish a paper or three before applying, so much the better. SLACs and honors programs are great places to get research experience. My DC went to a SLAC but lost some opportunities thanks to COVID-19 (like her study abroad and a couple of summer research positions that probably would have resulted in getting her name on a paper). She left college unsure whether to apply to med school or a Ph.D. program, so she worked in research at a T5 university for two years while she made up her mind. During this time, she got published, earned some recognition for her paper, and decided on a Ph.D. She got great recs from some heavy hitters and was accepted into her first-choice Ph.D. program.

Your DC might want to work in research for a year or two before applying to a Ph.D. My DC benefitted from the experience and maturation of working before going to grad school.

I'm one of the Prof's that replied earlier, and this is like the ideal PhD application. Solid broad undergrad, a few years life experience spent deeply immersed in high level research. We know this kind of student is choosing the PhD with their eyes open and knows what the research process entails and has already excelled in it. They are also more likely to have an area of focus a bit more refined and make better choices on who to work with.

[Anonymous]

Gemstone program at UMD does a wonderful job preparing students for the PhD.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid just got accepted to two fullyfunded grad programs. She went to a CTCL that people here laugh at.

She had published multiple papers and won prestigious internships/awards in her niche STEM field.

She took initiative and that stands out.

What program has already made admissions decisions?

[Anonymous]

Professor here with experience in PhD admissions in an ivy humanities program. The MOST important thing differentiator is coming from an undergrad school where several professors know you well and can write for you based on that. A close second is being very well advised about how and where to apply and by people who know the field you're interested in.

In general, applicants from SLACs stand out because they tend to have taken more than one class with full-time faculty in their field, faculty who get to see a student's work evolve and can really guide them in choosing programs and advocate for them. It doesn't need to be a top-handful SLAC; it needs to be a place where students are in small classes and are taught by the permanent faculty. Larger universities with well-thought-out undergraduate programs can also offer this, as can smaller majors within the really huge universities. But SLACs specialize in it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that GPA and research experience are critical and would add recommendations. If you can publish a paper or three before applying, so much the better. SLACs and honors programs are great places to get research experience. My DC went to a SLAC but lost some opportunities thanks to COVID-19 (like her study abroad and a couple of summer research positions that probably would have resulted in getting her name on a paper). She left college unsure whether to apply to med school or a Ph.D. program, so she worked in research at a T5 university for two years while she made up her mind. During this time, she got published, earned some recognition for her paper, and decided on a Ph.D. She got great recs from some heavy hitters and was accepted into her first-choice Ph.D. program.

Your DC might want to work in research for a year or two before applying to a Ph.D. My DC benefitted from the experience and maturation of working before going to grad school.

Excellent idea! Help your student decide: do I really want a PHD and if so, what do I want to focus on, and then you can select a program doing what you really want.

I went to grad school where I took MBA classes with the MBA students (my program was joint MBA/CS) where majority were straight out of undergrad and many had literally never worked a paying job (not even grocery store/fast food/etc--well off kids who were never required to work in college). Those kids only went to MBA program because they couldn't get a job out of college (early 90s---it was challenging, many smart kids went to grad school instead). Those students were not fully taking advantage of their MBA however, as they had no real clue what to focus on, and were a bit naive. I personally gravitated towards those 28-30yo students for group projects, because they had work experience and some focus---the others just had book experience and no real world experience and it showed.

I always say you should have 3-5 years of work experience before getting an MBA. Otherwise, it's not as useful

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Gemstone program at UMD does a wonderful job preparing students for the PhD.

But can students select it, or are they offered it? From seeing my kids' results and that of their friends, honors college and LLP placement seems pretty random at UMD.

[Anonymous]

Research opportunities and experience matter. I was one of only a few people that didn't do full time research work between undergrad and grad school. I started doing research my freshman year and worked full time in research every summer.

[Anonymous]

The number one rule of getting a PhD is "don't do that". The country is totally oversaturated with PhDs and has been since at least the 1990s. 300 applicants per tenure track position.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid just got accepted to two fullyfunded grad programs. She went to a CTCL that people here laugh at.

She had published multiple papers and won prestigious internships/awards in her niche STEM field.

She took initiative and that stands out.

I'm curious which CTCL she went to?

[Anonymous]

I went from a SLAC to a top 25 Graduate Program in my field and completed my PhD. I was not accepted with funding, which was unusual, but earned funding by the end of my first semester in the program. This was in the late 1990's so maybe things have changed. Overall, I would say that most of the top tier programs are looking for students who are interested in the field, have a demonstrated track record of academic excellence, and who appear committed to completing the program. I think that perseverance is more important then many people give credit for given the number of people who drop out of PhD programs.

[Anonymous]

As the parent of 2 kids who are in PhD programs, I just want to thank all - especially the profs - who have contributed to this thread. There's a lot of good info and advice here.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My child is a junior and I'm wondering how much your undergrad school matters if you are planning to go on to get a Ph.D. - If so, what specifically does matter in college selection?

My DD went to the #1 PhD program in her competitive STEM field. She went to a no-name small liberal arts college and majored in bio. One of her high school classmates, whose parents spent $$$$ to send him to Yale, ended up at the same PhD program as DD.

So, to answer your question, it doesn't matter all that much. My DD did extremely well at her no-name college, perhaps needless to say. She had very competitive summer internships, and her professors, who knew her well at her small school, recommended her highly. She's a self-starter and highly motivated to do well. That's all about her, and says nothing about the undergraduate college she attended. We're pleased we didn't pay Yale tuition, and yet she ended up at the same place as the kid whose parents shelled out big bucks to Yale. The no-name college gave DD a full merit scholarship.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is a junior and I'm wondering how much your undergrad school matters if you are planning to go on to get a Ph.D. - If so, what specifically does matter in college selection?

My DD went to the #1 PhD program in her competitive STEM field. She went to a no-name small liberal arts college and majored in bio. One of her high school classmates, whose parents spent $$$$ to send him to Yale, ended up at the same PhD program as DD.

So, to answer your question, it doesn't matter all that much. My DD did extremely well at her no-name college, perhaps needless to say. She had very competitive summer internships, and her professors, who knew her well at her small school, recommended her highly. She's a self-starter and highly motivated to do well. That's all about her, and says nothing about the undergraduate college she attended. We're pleased we didn't pay Yale tuition, and yet she ended up at the same place as the kid whose parents shelled out big bucks to Yale. The no-name college gave DD a full merit scholarship.

Congratulations to your DD. I’m the OP and the college rat race doesn’t really appeal to me so I’d love this for my kid. She is also super self motivated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My child is a junior and I'm wondering how much your undergrad school matters if you are planning to go on to get a Ph.D. - If so, what specifically does matter in college selection?

My DD went to the #1 PhD program in her competitive STEM field. She went to a no-name small liberal arts college and majored in bio. One of her high school classmates, whose parents spent $$$$ to send him to Yale, ended up at the same PhD program as DD.

So, to answer your question, it doesn't matter all that much. My DD did extremely well at her no-name college, perhaps needless to say. She had very competitive summer internships, and her professors, who knew her well at her small school, recommended her highly. She's a self-starter and highly motivated to do well. That's all about her, and says nothing about the undergraduate college she attended. We're pleased we didn't pay Yale tuition, and yet she ended up at the same place as the kid whose parents shelled out big bucks to Yale. The no-name college gave DD a full merit scholarship.

Much easier to "be a star" at a smaller school where not everyone is Top 1% and not everyone has been a striver since K.
You get the opportunities to excel, do meaningful research and work with professors as an undergrad. I have always thought this, but it's nice to see data points that support it.