Ayaan Hirsi Ali Converted to Christianity

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m concerned anyone would convert religions based on ‘civilizational war’

As a Christian I'm hopeful that God will work in her heart through the church she attends, reading the Bible, and meeting other Christians (how he works in all our hearts), but I'm inherently suspicious of these kind of political conversions. I've seen them on the left and the right, and I don't often see them develop in the way that I'd hope a Christian would. Her statement is long on politics and short on any kind of encounter with the Christ, which isn't encouraging.

What is a political religious conversion?

You are suspicious of her? Suspicious about what?

DP but read the statement. She's very explicit that this is a political conversion - to defend Western civilization and provide a unifying mindset for the West in the global war against "three different but related forces: the resurgence of great-power authoritarianism and expansionism in the forms of the Chinese Communist Party and Vladimir Putin’s Russia; the rise of global Islamism, which threatens to mobilise a vast population against the West; and the viral spread of woke ideology, which is eating into the moral fibre of the next generation." PPP is not being unfair to call this a political conversion; Ali makes it explicit that the conversion is an outgrowth of, and in service to, her political point of view.

“Yet I would not be truthful if I attributed my embrace of Christianity solely to the realisation that atheism is too weak and divisive a doctrine to fortify us against our menacing foes. I have also turned to Christianity because I ultimately found life without any spiritual solace unendurable — indeed very nearly self-destructive. Atheism failed to answer a simple question: what is the meaning and purpose of life?“

No, she is very clear on her personal perspective about her conversion. You are being intellectually dishonest.

She wanted to believe in something, and she feels that Christianity is the something that most closely supports her political beliefs. It's silly to pretend that the argument she leads off with, and spends most of the article laying out in detail, is a subpoint to the "I needed something to believe" angle. She doesn't even say that. She says it's not solely about politics, it's also about spiritual solace. The idea that you could read that, and then be offended that someone calls it a political conversion, is what's intellectually dishonest.

I am surprised by people who are surprised by her rightward drift though. She was shaped by very extreme religious dogma that made no distinction between religion and politics from a young age, she's used to that mindset. She rebelled against it when a huge line was crossed (9/11), and got a lot of public acclaim (and attacks, to be fair) for staking out that position. But you can see by her argument about war of civilizations that she still buys in very deeply to the ideas taught by the Muslim Brotherhood, she's just switched teams. It's a comfortable argument for her, she knows it inside and out, she can make a convincing case for it from the Muslim, atheist West, and now Christian West POVs. It's like watching a really talented mock trial participant at this point.

"I still have a great deal to learn about Christianity," she wrote in an essay published this week. "I discover a little more at church each Sunday. But I have recognized, in my own long journey through a wilderness of fear and self-doubt, that there is a better way to manage the challenges of existence than either Islam or unbelief had to offer.”

She’s a new Christian. She has publicly declared she is a Christian, admits she has much to learn about Christianity, attends church, and openly admits Christianity is helping her through her LONG JOURNEY of FEAR and SELF-DOUBT.

Each person develops a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

I can’t believe you are a Christian and demanding this woman meet your expectations. Get over yourself, my goodness. That’s crazy.

I'm not a Christian. There are more than two people in this thread. Someone upthread got offended that a person would dare, DARE I say, call this a political conversion. I'm simply pointing out that she herself extols the political side of her conversion far more, and in much greater detail, than the pretty glossed-over "I missed having faith" and "I go to Church now" and "atheism and Islam didn't cut it for me." I don't care why she does what she does, but I do care that people are calling anybody "intellectually dishonest" for the most honest reading of this announcement. She details for like 3 pages the geopolitical and personal political reasoning of her foray into Christianity, then throws in some soft vagueness around how she's learning and she's sure it will be great when she understands it. That's a political conversion, however offended you are by the terminology. And maybe she'll develop a personal relationship with JC, like you presume she will, and that's swell. But it's not the basis of her conversion, in her own words, and you deciding that you're Head Christian In Charge of Not Being Allowed to Notice the Obvious is . . . well, it feels political.

So you aren’t a Christian- but definitely have decided what Christians should do. Let me know what you identify as and let me judge if what you are doing measures up. Stat.

Dcum made up the term “political conversion.” That’s not a term used anywhere else.

She clearly states that atheism has not given her any meaningful life, and it’s self destructive to not have a meaningful life. That is her opinion and she’s clearly decided after being an atheist for years it’s not met her needs. Sorry if that offends you, but she’s speaking her truth.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m concerned anyone would convert religions based on ‘civilizational war’

As a Christian I'm hopeful that God will work in her heart through the church she attends, reading the Bible, and meeting other Christians (how he works in all our hearts), but I'm inherently suspicious of these kind of political conversions. I've seen them on the left and the right, and I don't often see them develop in the way that I'd hope a Christian would. Her statement is long on politics and short on any kind of encounter with the Christ, which isn't encouraging.

What is a political religious conversion?

You are suspicious of her? Suspicious about what?

DP but read the statement. She's very explicit that this is a political conversion - to defend Western civilization and provide a unifying mindset for the West in the global war against "three different but related forces: the resurgence of great-power authoritarianism and expansionism in the forms of the Chinese Communist Party and Vladimir Putin’s Russia; the rise of global Islamism, which threatens to mobilise a vast population against the West; and the viral spread of woke ideology, which is eating into the moral fibre of the next generation." PPP is not being unfair to call this a political conversion; Ali makes it explicit that the conversion is an outgrowth of, and in service to, her political point of view.

“Yet I would not be truthful if I attributed my embrace of Christianity solely to the realisation that atheism is too weak and divisive a doctrine to fortify us against our menacing foes. I have also turned to Christianity because I ultimately found life without any spiritual solace unendurable — indeed very nearly self-destructive. Atheism failed to answer a simple question: what is the meaning and purpose of life?“

No, she is very clear on her personal perspective about her conversion. You are being intellectually dishonest.

She wanted to believe in something, and she feels that Christianity is the something that most closely supports her political beliefs. It's silly to pretend that the argument she leads off with, and spends most of the article laying out in detail, is a subpoint to the "I needed something to believe" angle. She doesn't even say that. She says it's not solely about politics, it's also about spiritual solace. The idea that you could read that, and then be offended that someone calls it a political conversion, is what's intellectually dishonest.

I am surprised by people who are surprised by her rightward drift though. She was shaped by very extreme religious dogma that made no distinction between religion and politics from a young age, she's used to that mindset. She rebelled against it when a huge line was crossed (9/11), and got a lot of public acclaim (and attacks, to be fair) for staking out that position. But you can see by her argument about war of civilizations that she still buys in very deeply to the ideas taught by the Muslim Brotherhood, she's just switched teams. It's a comfortable argument for her, she knows it inside and out, she can make a convincing case for it from the Muslim, atheist West, and now Christian West POVs. It's like watching a really talented mock trial participant at this point.

"I still have a great deal to learn about Christianity," she wrote in an essay published this week. "I discover a little more at church each Sunday. But I have recognized, in my own long journey through a wilderness of fear and self-doubt, that there is a better way to manage the challenges of existence than either Islam or unbelief had to offer.”

She’s a new Christian. She has publicly declared she is a Christian, admits she has much to learn about Christianity, attends church, and openly admits Christianity is helping her through her LONG JOURNEY of FEAR and SELF-DOUBT.

Each person develops a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

I can’t believe you are a Christian and demanding this woman meet your expectations. Get over yourself, my goodness. That’s crazy.

I'm not a Christian. There are more than two people in this thread. Someone upthread got offended that a person would dare, DARE I say, call this a political conversion. I'm simply pointing out that she herself extols the political side of her conversion far more, and in much greater detail, than the pretty glossed-over "I missed having faith" and "I go to Church now" and "atheism and Islam didn't cut it for me." I don't care why she does what she does, but I do care that people are calling anybody "intellectually dishonest" for the most honest reading of this announcement. She details for like 3 pages the geopolitical and personal political reasoning of her foray into Christianity, then throws in some soft vagueness around how she's learning and she's sure it will be great when she understands it. That's a political conversion, however offended you are by the terminology. And maybe she'll develop a personal relationship with JC, like you presume she will, and that's swell. But it's not the basis of her conversion, in her own words, and you deciding that you're Head Christian In Charge of Not Being Allowed to Notice the Obvious is . . . well, it feels political.

So you aren’t a Christian- but definitely have decided what Christians should do. Let me know what you identify as and let me judge if what you are doing measures up. Stat.

Dcum made up the term “political conversion.” That’s not a term used anywhere else.

She clearly states that atheism has not given her any meaningful life, and it’s self destructive to not have a meaningful life. That is her opinion and she’s clearly decided after being an atheist for years it’s not met her needs. Sorry if that offends you, but she’s speaking her truth.

Nope. I am a logician, and I have decided that when someone says "how could you call this a political conversion??!!?" that I should go read the article and form an opinion. At which point I laugh and laugh and laugh to see that she has very explicitly and in detail explained the political reasons for her conversion. You can be mad forever that people have taken her at her word when you would rather read "I've got the love of Jesus down in my heart" in between the lines and force people to agree that that's what she *really* meant, but you're still wrong.

One thing no one can deny about Ayaan - she's a very clear, persuasive writer. And what she's written here is clear and unambiguous. You just think it's mean or dismissive or somehow anti-Christian to take her at her word.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m concerned anyone would convert religions based on ‘civilizational war’

As a Christian I'm hopeful that God will work in her heart through the church she attends, reading the Bible, and meeting other Christians (how he works in all our hearts), but I'm inherently suspicious of these kind of political conversions. I've seen them on the left and the right, and I don't often see them develop in the way that I'd hope a Christian would. Her statement is long on politics and short on any kind of encounter with the Christ, which isn't encouraging.

What is a political religious conversion?

You are suspicious of her? Suspicious about what?

DP but read the statement. She's very explicit that this is a political conversion - to defend Western civilization and provide a unifying mindset for the West in the global war against "three different but related forces: the resurgence of great-power authoritarianism and expansionism in the forms of the Chinese Communist Party and Vladimir Putin’s Russia; the rise of global Islamism, which threatens to mobilise a vast population against the West; and the viral spread of woke ideology, which is eating into the moral fibre of the next generation." PPP is not being unfair to call this a political conversion; Ali makes it explicit that the conversion is an outgrowth of, and in service to, her political point of view.

“Yet I would not be truthful if I attributed my embrace of Christianity solely to the realisation that atheism is too weak and divisive a doctrine to fortify us against our menacing foes. I have also turned to Christianity because I ultimately found life without any spiritual solace unendurable — indeed very nearly self-destructive. Atheism failed to answer a simple question: what is the meaning and purpose of life?“

No, she is very clear on her personal perspective about her conversion. You are being intellectually dishonest.

She wanted to believe in something, and she feels that Christianity is the something that most closely supports her political beliefs. It's silly to pretend that the argument she leads off with, and spends most of the article laying out in detail, is a subpoint to the "I needed something to believe" angle. She doesn't even say that. She says it's not solely about politics, it's also about spiritual solace. The idea that you could read that, and then be offended that someone calls it a political conversion, is what's intellectually dishonest.

I am surprised by people who are surprised by her rightward drift though. She was shaped by very extreme religious dogma that made no distinction between religion and politics from a young age, she's used to that mindset. She rebelled against it when a huge line was crossed (9/11), and got a lot of public acclaim (and attacks, to be fair) for staking out that position. But you can see by her argument about war of civilizations that she still buys in very deeply to the ideas taught by the Muslim Brotherhood, she's just switched teams. It's a comfortable argument for her, she knows it inside and out, she can make a convincing case for it from the Muslim, atheist West, and now Christian West POVs. It's like watching a really talented mock trial participant at this point.

"I still have a great deal to learn about Christianity," she wrote in an essay published this week. "I discover a little more at church each Sunday. But I have recognized, in my own long journey through a wilderness of fear and self-doubt, that there is a better way to manage the challenges of existence than either Islam or unbelief had to offer.”

She’s a new Christian. She has publicly declared she is a Christian, admits she has much to learn about Christianity, attends church, and openly admits Christianity is helping her through her LONG JOURNEY of FEAR and SELF-DOUBT.

Each person develops a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

I can’t believe you are a Christian and demanding this woman meet your expectations. Get over yourself, my goodness. That’s crazy.

I'm not a Christian. There are more than two people in this thread. Someone upthread got offended that a person would dare, DARE I say, call this a political conversion. I'm simply pointing out that she herself extols the political side of her conversion far more, and in much greater detail, than the pretty glossed-over "I missed having faith" and "I go to Church now" and "atheism and Islam didn't cut it for me." I don't care why she does what she does, but I do care that people are calling anybody "intellectually dishonest" for the most honest reading of this announcement. She details for like 3 pages the geopolitical and personal political reasoning of her foray into Christianity, then throws in some soft vagueness around how she's learning and she's sure it will be great when she understands it. That's a political conversion, however offended you are by the terminology. And maybe she'll develop a personal relationship with JC, like you presume she will, and that's swell. But it's not the basis of her conversion, in her own words, and you deciding that you're Head Christian In Charge of Not Being Allowed to Notice the Obvious is . . . well, it feels political.

So you aren’t a Christian- but definitely have decided what Christians should do. Let me know what you identify as and let me judge if what you are doing measures up. Stat.

Dcum made up the term “political conversion.” That’s not a term used anywhere else.

She clearly states that atheism has not given her any meaningful life, and it’s self destructive to not have a meaningful life. That is her opinion and she’s clearly decided after being an atheist for years it’s not met her needs. Sorry if that offends you, but she’s speaking her truth.

I'm the other PP (the Christian one) and the only people who seem "offended" are the people who are outraged that some of us have opinions about her. She's free to "speak her truth" (a phrase she would likely hate, but whatever), and I'm free to gauge how much I think her "truth" accords with the truth as taught our shared faith. As I said, I genuinely hope she believes that Jesus is God incarnate, died, and was resurrected, but I don't see that in her writings.

[Anonymous]

“You can see why, to someone who had been through such a religious schooling, atheism seemed so appealing. Bertrand Russell offered a simple, zero-cost escape from an unbearable life of self-denial and harassment of other people. For him, there was no credible case for the existence of God. Religion, Russell argued, was rooted in fear: “Fear is the basis of the whole thing — fear of the mysterious, fear of defeat, fear of death.”

As an atheist, I thought I would lose that fear. I also found an entirely new circle of friends, as different from the preachers of the Muslim Brotherhood as one could imagine. The more time I spent with them — people such as Christopher Hitchens and Richard Dawkins — the more confident I felt that I had made the right choice. For the atheists were clever. They were also a great deal of fun.

So, what changed? Why do I call myself a Christian now?“

“I have also turned to Christianity because I ultimately found life without any spiritual solace unendurable — indeed very nearly self-destructive. Atheism failed to answer a simple question: what is the meaning and purpose of life?


Russell and other activist atheists believed that with the rejection of God we would enter an age of reason and intelligent humanism. But the “God hole” — the void left by the retreat of the church — has merely been filled by a jumble of irrational quasi-religious dogma. The result is a world where modern cults prey on the dislocated masses, offering them spurious reasons for being and action — mostly by engaging in virtue-signalling theatre on behalf of a victimised minority or our supposedly doomed planet. The line often attributed to G.K. Chesterton has turned into a prophecy: “When men choose not to believe in God, they do not thereafter believe in nothing, they then become capable of believing in anything.””


She wasn’t fulfilled by atheism. It’s very simple. She apparently didn’t get what she needed from disbelief to be happy, feel good about herself, and why she’s on the planet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m concerned anyone would convert religions based on ‘civilizational war’

As a Christian I'm hopeful that God will work in her heart through the church she attends, reading the Bible, and meeting other Christians (how he works in all our hearts), but I'm inherently suspicious of these kind of political conversions. I've seen them on the left and the right, and I don't often see them develop in the way that I'd hope a Christian would. Her statement is long on politics and short on any kind of encounter with the Christ, which isn't encouraging.

What is a political religious conversion?

You are suspicious of her? Suspicious about what?

DP but read the statement. She's very explicit that this is a political conversion - to defend Western civilization and provide a unifying mindset for the West in the global war against "three different but related forces: the resurgence of great-power authoritarianism and expansionism in the forms of the Chinese Communist Party and Vladimir Putin’s Russia; the rise of global Islamism, which threatens to mobilise a vast population against the West; and the viral spread of woke ideology, which is eating into the moral fibre of the next generation." PPP is not being unfair to call this a political conversion; Ali makes it explicit that the conversion is an outgrowth of, and in service to, her political point of view.

“Yet I would not be truthful if I attributed my embrace of Christianity solely to the realisation that atheism is too weak and divisive a doctrine to fortify us against our menacing foes. I have also turned to Christianity because I ultimately found life without any spiritual solace unendurable — indeed very nearly self-destructive. Atheism failed to answer a simple question: what is the meaning and purpose of life?“

No, she is very clear on her personal perspective about her conversion. You are being intellectually dishonest.

She wanted to believe in something, and she feels that Christianity is the something that most closely supports her political beliefs. It's silly to pretend that the argument she leads off with, and spends most of the article laying out in detail, is a subpoint to the "I needed something to believe" angle. She doesn't even say that. She says it's not solely about politics, it's also about spiritual solace. The idea that you could read that, and then be offended that someone calls it a political conversion, is what's intellectually dishonest.

I am surprised by people who are surprised by her rightward drift though. She was shaped by very extreme religious dogma that made no distinction between religion and politics from a young age, she's used to that mindset. She rebelled against it when a huge line was crossed (9/11), and got a lot of public acclaim (and attacks, to be fair) for staking out that position. But you can see by her argument about war of civilizations that she still buys in very deeply to the ideas taught by the Muslim Brotherhood, she's just switched teams. It's a comfortable argument for her, she knows it inside and out, she can make a convincing case for it from the Muslim, atheist West, and now Christian West POVs. It's like watching a really talented mock trial participant at this point.

"I still have a great deal to learn about Christianity," she wrote in an essay published this week. "I discover a little more at church each Sunday. But I have recognized, in my own long journey through a wilderness of fear and self-doubt, that there is a better way to manage the challenges of existence than either Islam or unbelief had to offer.”

She’s a new Christian. She has publicly declared she is a Christian, admits she has much to learn about Christianity, attends church, and openly admits Christianity is helping her through her LONG JOURNEY of FEAR and SELF-DOUBT.

Each person develops a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

I can’t believe you are a Christian and demanding this woman meet your expectations. Get over yourself, my goodness. That’s crazy.

I'm not a Christian. There are more than two people in this thread. Someone upthread got offended that a person would dare, DARE I say, call this a political conversion. I'm simply pointing out that she herself extols the political side of her conversion far more, and in much greater detail, than the pretty glossed-over "I missed having faith" and "I go to Church now" and "atheism and Islam didn't cut it for me." I don't care why she does what she does, but I do care that people are calling anybody "intellectually dishonest" for the most honest reading of this announcement. She details for like 3 pages the geopolitical and personal political reasoning of her foray into Christianity, then throws in some soft vagueness around how she's learning and she's sure it will be great when she understands it. That's a political conversion, however offended you are by the terminology. And maybe she'll develop a personal relationship with JC, like you presume she will, and that's swell. But it's not the basis of her conversion, in her own words, and you deciding that you're Head Christian In Charge of Not Being Allowed to Notice the Obvious is . . . well, it feels political.

DP. She says she believes in Jesus’ messages of turning the other cheek, peace, tolerance, separation of church and state, and so on. She specifically mentions these as being the attractions, to her, of Christianity.

You want to write that off as “political,” but it’s also foundational to being a Christian. (Even if, historically, Christians haven’t always lived up to these.)

True, we don’t know (yet?) if she believes he’s God’s son made man. But she’s clearly bought into major parts of the doctrine, which you can’t simply dismiss as “political” or cynical.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m concerned anyone would convert religions based on ‘civilizational war’

As a Christian I'm hopeful that God will work in her heart through the church she attends, reading the Bible, and meeting other Christians (how he works in all our hearts), but I'm inherently suspicious of these kind of political conversions. I've seen them on the left and the right, and I don't often see them develop in the way that I'd hope a Christian would. Her statement is long on politics and short on any kind of encounter with the Christ, which isn't encouraging.

What is a political religious conversion?

You are suspicious of her? Suspicious about what?

DP but read the statement. She's very explicit that this is a political conversion - to defend Western civilization and provide a unifying mindset for the West in the global war against "three different but related forces: the resurgence of great-power authoritarianism and expansionism in the forms of the Chinese Communist Party and Vladimir Putin’s Russia; the rise of global Islamism, which threatens to mobilise a vast population against the West; and the viral spread of woke ideology, which is eating into the moral fibre of the next generation." PPP is not being unfair to call this a political conversion; Ali makes it explicit that the conversion is an outgrowth of, and in service to, her political point of view.

“Yet I would not be truthful if I attributed my embrace of Christianity solely to the realisation that atheism is too weak and divisive a doctrine to fortify us against our menacing foes. I have also turned to Christianity because I ultimately found life without any spiritual solace unendurable — indeed very nearly self-destructive. Atheism failed to answer a simple question: what is the meaning and purpose of life?“

No, she is very clear on her personal perspective about her conversion. You are being intellectually dishonest.

She wanted to believe in something, and she feels that Christianity is the something that most closely supports her political beliefs. It's silly to pretend that the argument she leads off with, and spends most of the article laying out in detail, is a subpoint to the "I needed something to believe" angle. She doesn't even say that. She says it's not solely about politics, it's also about spiritual solace. The idea that you could read that, and then be offended that someone calls it a political conversion, is what's intellectually dishonest.

I am surprised by people who are surprised by her rightward drift though. She was shaped by very extreme religious dogma that made no distinction between religion and politics from a young age, she's used to that mindset. She rebelled against it when a huge line was crossed (9/11), and got a lot of public acclaim (and attacks, to be fair) for staking out that position. But you can see by her argument about war of civilizations that she still buys in very deeply to the ideas taught by the Muslim Brotherhood, she's just switched teams. It's a comfortable argument for her, she knows it inside and out, she can make a convincing case for it from the Muslim, atheist West, and now Christian West POVs. It's like watching a really talented mock trial participant at this point.

"I still have a great deal to learn about Christianity," she wrote in an essay published this week. "I discover a little more at church each Sunday. But I have recognized, in my own long journey through a wilderness of fear and self-doubt, that there is a better way to manage the challenges of existence than either Islam or unbelief had to offer.”

She’s a new Christian. She has publicly declared she is a Christian, admits she has much to learn about Christianity, attends church, and openly admits Christianity is helping her through her LONG JOURNEY of FEAR and SELF-DOUBT.

Each person develops a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

I can’t believe you are a Christian and demanding this woman meet your expectations. Get over yourself, my goodness. That’s crazy.

I'm not a Christian. There are more than two people in this thread. Someone upthread got offended that a person would dare, DARE I say, call this a political conversion. I'm simply pointing out that she herself extols the political side of her conversion far more, and in much greater detail, than the pretty glossed-over "I missed having faith" and "I go to Church now" and "atheism and Islam didn't cut it for me." I don't care why she does what she does, but I do care that people are calling anybody "intellectually dishonest" for the most honest reading of this announcement. She details for like 3 pages the geopolitical and personal political reasoning of her foray into Christianity, then throws in some soft vagueness around how she's learning and she's sure it will be great when she understands it. That's a political conversion, however offended you are by the terminology. And maybe she'll develop a personal relationship with JC, like you presume she will, and that's swell. But it's not the basis of her conversion, in her own words, and you deciding that you're Head Christian In Charge of Not Being Allowed to Notice the Obvious is . . . well, it feels political.

So you aren’t a Christian- but definitely have decided what Christians should do. Let me know what you identify as and let me judge if what you are doing measures up. Stat.

Dcum made up the term “political conversion.” That’s not a term used anywhere else.

She clearly states that atheism has not given her any meaningful life, and it’s self destructive to not have a meaningful life. That is her opinion and she’s clearly decided after being an atheist for years it’s not met her needs. Sorry if that offends you, but she’s speaking her truth.

Nope. I am a logician, and I have decided that when someone says "how could you call this a political conversion??!!?" that I should go read the article and form an opinion. At which point I laugh and laugh and laugh to see that she has very explicitly and in detail explained the political reasons for her conversion. You can be mad forever that people have taken her at her word when you would rather read "I've got the love of Jesus down in my heart" in between the lines and force people to agree that that's what she *really* meant, but you're still wrong.

One thing no one can deny about Ayaan - she's a very clear, persuasive writer. And what she's written here is clear and unambiguous. You just think it's mean or dismissive or somehow anti-Christian to take her at her word.

Conversion to Christianity publicly means you have accepted Jesus Christ.

It’s that simple. Do you want her to quote scripture in her social media bios? Pray publicly so you can judge how earnest she is? Put a “honk if you love Jesus” bumper sticker on her car?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m concerned anyone would convert religions based on ‘civilizational war’

As a Christian I'm hopeful that God will work in her heart through the church she attends, reading the Bible, and meeting other Christians (how he works in all our hearts), but I'm inherently suspicious of these kind of political conversions. I've seen them on the left and the right, and I don't often see them develop in the way that I'd hope a Christian would. Her statement is long on politics and short on any kind of encounter with the Christ, which isn't encouraging.

What is a political religious conversion?

You are suspicious of her? Suspicious about what?

DP but read the statement. She's very explicit that this is a political conversion - to defend Western civilization and provide a unifying mindset for the West in the global war against "three different but related forces: the resurgence of great-power authoritarianism and expansionism in the forms of the Chinese Communist Party and Vladimir Putin’s Russia; the rise of global Islamism, which threatens to mobilise a vast population against the West; and the viral spread of woke ideology, which is eating into the moral fibre of the next generation." PPP is not being unfair to call this a political conversion; Ali makes it explicit that the conversion is an outgrowth of, and in service to, her political point of view.

“Yet I would not be truthful if I attributed my embrace of Christianity solely to the realisation that atheism is too weak and divisive a doctrine to fortify us against our menacing foes. I have also turned to Christianity because I ultimately found life without any spiritual solace unendurable — indeed very nearly self-destructive. Atheism failed to answer a simple question: what is the meaning and purpose of life?“

No, she is very clear on her personal perspective about her conversion. You are being intellectually dishonest.

She wanted to believe in something, and she feels that Christianity is the something that most closely supports her political beliefs. It's silly to pretend that the argument she leads off with, and spends most of the article laying out in detail, is a subpoint to the "I needed something to believe" angle. She doesn't even say that. She says it's not solely about politics, it's also about spiritual solace. The idea that you could read that, and then be offended that someone calls it a political conversion, is what's intellectually dishonest.

I am surprised by people who are surprised by her rightward drift though. She was shaped by very extreme religious dogma that made no distinction between religion and politics from a young age, she's used to that mindset. She rebelled against it when a huge line was crossed (9/11), and got a lot of public acclaim (and attacks, to be fair) for staking out that position. But you can see by her argument about war of civilizations that she still buys in very deeply to the ideas taught by the Muslim Brotherhood, she's just switched teams. It's a comfortable argument for her, she knows it inside and out, she can make a convincing case for it from the Muslim, atheist West, and now Christian West POVs. It's like watching a really talented mock trial participant at this point.

"I still have a great deal to learn about Christianity," she wrote in an essay published this week. "I discover a little more at church each Sunday. But I have recognized, in my own long journey through a wilderness of fear and self-doubt, that there is a better way to manage the challenges of existence than either Islam or unbelief had to offer.”

She’s a new Christian. She has publicly declared she is a Christian, admits she has much to learn about Christianity, attends church, and openly admits Christianity is helping her through her LONG JOURNEY of FEAR and SELF-DOUBT.

Each person develops a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

I can’t believe you are a Christian and demanding this woman meet your expectations. Get over yourself, my goodness. That’s crazy.

I'm not a Christian. There are more than two people in this thread. Someone upthread got offended that a person would dare, DARE I say, call this a political conversion. I'm simply pointing out that she herself extols the political side of her conversion far more, and in much greater detail, than the pretty glossed-over "I missed having faith" and "I go to Church now" and "atheism and Islam didn't cut it for me." I don't care why she does what she does, but I do care that people are calling anybody "intellectually dishonest" for the most honest reading of this announcement. She details for like 3 pages the geopolitical and personal political reasoning of her foray into Christianity, then throws in some soft vagueness around how she's learning and she's sure it will be great when she understands it. That's a political conversion, however offended you are by the terminology. And maybe she'll develop a personal relationship with JC, like you presume she will, and that's swell. But it's not the basis of her conversion, in her own words, and you deciding that you're Head Christian In Charge of Not Being Allowed to Notice the Obvious is . . . well, it feels political.

So you aren’t a Christian- but definitely have decided what Christians should do. Let me know what you identify as and let me judge if what you are doing measures up. Stat.

Dcum made up the term “political conversion.” That’s not a term used anywhere else.

She clearly states that atheism has not given her any meaningful life, and it’s self destructive to not have a meaningful life. That is her opinion and she’s clearly decided after being an atheist for years it’s not met her needs. Sorry if that offends you, but she’s speaking her truth.

Nope. I am a logician, and I have decided that when someone says "how could you call this a political conversion??!!?" that I should go read the article and form an opinion. At which point I laugh and laugh and laugh to see that she has very explicitly and in detail explained the political reasons for her conversion. You can be mad forever that people have taken her at her word when you would rather read "I've got the love of Jesus down in my heart" in between the lines and force people to agree that that's what she *really* meant, but you're still wrong.

One thing no one can deny about Ayaan - she's a very clear, persuasive writer. And what she's written here is clear and unambiguous. You just think it's mean or dismissive or somehow anti-Christian to take her at her word.

Again, she talks about how she embraces specifically Christian doctrines of peace, turning the other cheek, separation of church and state, etc.

Yes, these doctrines are political. But they’re also very Christian.

You’re trying to hive them off from Christianity, and that just doesn’t work.

[Anonymous]

I'm disappointed to see such vitriol in the Religion forum. I read Infidel by Ali and found her story compelling. People find religion in different ways, and I don't see reason to criticize or doubt her because she didn't explain it in a way that resonated with you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm disappointed to see such vitriol in the Religion forum. I read Infidel by Ali and found her story compelling. People find religion in different ways, and I don't see reason to criticize or doubt her because she didn't explain it in a way that resonated with you.

+1

She’s been through so much. She’s actually a very intelligent and strong woman.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m concerned anyone would convert religions based on ‘civilizational war’

As a Christian I'm hopeful that God will work in her heart through the church she attends, reading the Bible, and meeting other Christians (how he works in all our hearts), but I'm inherently suspicious of these kind of political conversions. I've seen them on the left and the right, and I don't often see them develop in the way that I'd hope a Christian would. Her statement is long on politics and short on any kind of encounter with the Christ, which isn't encouraging.

What is a political religious conversion?

You are suspicious of her? Suspicious about what?

A politically motivated religious conversion. Converting to a religion because you think it matches and supports your politics, rather than because you believe that the claims made by the religion are true. I'm suspicious that she's not actually found faith in Christianity but rather that she's decided Christianity is what matches her politics.

What she presents in the article is essentially that she thinks Christianity is a good story that will help Western Civilization survive ("The lesson I learned from my years with the Muslim Brotherhood was the power of a unifying story, embedded in the foundational texts of Islam, to attract, engage and mobilise the Muslim masses. Unless we offer something as meaningful, I fear the erosion of our civilisation will continue.").

Does that mean she thinks the story is *true*? That's the heart of Christianity: believing that God became man in the person of Jesus, who died and was raised, and who promises to share that risen life with us. Right now, I think she talks like someone coopting my faith for political ends that are not what God wants. As Stanley Haurwas says "Jesus is Lord, everything else is bullshit." I want to see her belief in Jesus being Lord, not her belief that a good story can win a civilizational war. That's not what Christianity is for.

“Yet I would not be truthful if I attributed my embrace of Christianity solely to the realisation that atheism is too weak and divisive a doctrine to fortify us against our menacing foes. I have also turned to Christianity because I ultimately found life without any spiritual solace unendurable — indeed very nearly self-destructive. Atheism failed to answer a simple question: what is the meaning and purpose of life?“

So what about this part?

There are no political religious conversions. That’s something you made up. That’s really (for the lack of a better term) dumb.

None of that professes a belief in the truth of Christianity. It simply doesn't. She doesn't mention Jesus, she doesn't mention a single article of the Christian faith. she doesn't profess any established creed. She talks about what atheism isn't, not what Christianity is. Does she believe Jesus is Lord? I'd love to her say that, I love to hear anyone say that, but she doesn't. I hope that's coming.

You wanted her first announcement about this to come out swinging for her belief in the Nicene Creed or something? Belief is a pretty personal thing. Personally I'd be put off by somebody saying something trite like, "I converted and now Jesus loves me!" in her very first post. We'll see what else she says in due time.

+1 it's a tasteful announcement

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m concerned anyone would convert religions based on ‘civilizational war’

As a Christian I'm hopeful that God will work in her heart through the church she attends, reading the Bible, and meeting other Christians (how he works in all our hearts), but I'm inherently suspicious of these kind of political conversions. I've seen them on the left and the right, and I don't often see them develop in the way that I'd hope a Christian would. Her statement is long on politics and short on any kind of encounter with the Christ, which isn't encouraging.

What is a political religious conversion?

You are suspicious of her? Suspicious about what?

A politically motivated religious conversion. Converting to a religion because you think it matches and supports your politics, rather than because you believe that the claims made by the religion are true. I'm suspicious that she's not actually found faith in Christianity but rather that she's decided Christianity is what matches her politics.

What she presents in the article is essentially that she thinks Christianity is a good story that will help Western Civilization survive ("The lesson I learned from my years with the Muslim Brotherhood was the power of a unifying story, embedded in the foundational texts of Islam, to attract, engage and mobilise the Muslim masses. Unless we offer something as meaningful, I fear the erosion of our civilisation will continue.").

Does that mean she thinks the story is *true*? That's the heart of Christianity: believing that God became man in the person of Jesus, who died and was raised, and who promises to share that risen life with us. Right now, I think she talks like someone coopting my faith for political ends that are not what God wants. As Stanley Haurwas says "Jesus is Lord, everything else is bullshit." I want to see her belief in Jesus being Lord, not her belief that a good story can win a civilizational war. That's not what Christianity is for.

“Yet I would not be truthful if I attributed my embrace of Christianity solely to the realisation that atheism is too weak and divisive a doctrine to fortify us against our menacing foes. I have also turned to Christianity because I ultimately found life without any spiritual solace unendurable — indeed very nearly self-destructive. Atheism failed to answer a simple question: what is the meaning and purpose of life?“

So what about this part?

There are no political religious conversions. That’s something you made up. That’s really (for the lack of a better term) dumb.

None of that professes a belief in the truth of Christianity. It simply doesn't. She doesn't mention Jesus, she doesn't mention a single article of the Christian faith. she doesn't profess any established creed. She talks about what atheism isn't, not what Christianity is. Does she believe Jesus is Lord? I'd love to her say that, I love to hear anyone say that, but she doesn't. I hope that's coming.

You wanted her first announcement about this to come out swinging for her belief in the Nicene Creed or something? Belief is a pretty personal thing. Personally I'd be put off by somebody saying something trite like, "I converted and now Jesus loves me!" in her very first post. We'll see what else she says in due time.

+1 it's a tasteful announcement

Exactly. It wasn’t meant to be a comprehensive list of her beliefs and a soul baring description of how she became a Christian.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m concerned anyone would convert religions based on ‘civilizational war’

As a Christian I'm hopeful that God will work in her heart through the church she attends, reading the Bible, and meeting other Christians (how he works in all our hearts), but I'm inherently suspicious of these kind of political conversions. I've seen them on the left and the right, and I don't often see them develop in the way that I'd hope a Christian would. Her statement is long on politics and short on any kind of encounter with the Christ, which isn't encouraging.

What is a political religious conversion?

You are suspicious of her? Suspicious about what?

DP but read the statement. She's very explicit that this is a political conversion - to defend Western civilization and provide a unifying mindset for the West in the global war against "three different but related forces: the resurgence of great-power authoritarianism and expansionism in the forms of the Chinese Communist Party and Vladimir Putin’s Russia; the rise of global Islamism, which threatens to mobilise a vast population against the West; and the viral spread of woke ideology, which is eating into the moral fibre of the next generation." PPP is not being unfair to call this a political conversion; Ali makes it explicit that the conversion is an outgrowth of, and in service to, her political point of view.

“Yet I would not be truthful if I attributed my embrace of Christianity solely to the realisation that atheism is too weak and divisive a doctrine to fortify us against our menacing foes. I have also turned to Christianity because I ultimately found life without any spiritual solace unendurable — indeed very nearly self-destructive. Atheism failed to answer a simple question: what is the meaning and purpose of life?“

No, she is very clear on her personal perspective about her conversion. You are being intellectually dishonest.

She wanted to believe in something, and she feels that Christianity is the something that most closely supports her political beliefs. It's silly to pretend that the argument she leads off with, and spends most of the article laying out in detail, is a subpoint to the "I needed something to believe" angle. She doesn't even say that. She says it's not solely about politics, it's also about spiritual solace. The idea that you could read that, and then be offended that someone calls it a political conversion, is what's intellectually dishonest.

I am surprised by people who are surprised by her rightward drift though. She was shaped by very extreme religious dogma that made no distinction between religion and politics from a young age, she's used to that mindset. She rebelled against it when a huge line was crossed (9/11), and got a lot of public acclaim (and attacks, to be fair) for staking out that position. But you can see by her argument about war of civilizations that she still buys in very deeply to the ideas taught by the Muslim Brotherhood, she's just switched teams. It's a comfortable argument for her, she knows it inside and out, she can make a convincing case for it from the Muslim, atheist West, and now Christian West POVs. It's like watching a really talented mock trial participant at this point.

"I still have a great deal to learn about Christianity," she wrote in an essay published this week. "I discover a little more at church each Sunday. But I have recognized, in my own long journey through a wilderness of fear and self-doubt, that there is a better way to manage the challenges of existence than either Islam or unbelief had to offer.”

She’s a new Christian. She has publicly declared she is a Christian, admits she has much to learn about Christianity, attends church, and openly admits Christianity is helping her through her LONG JOURNEY of FEAR and SELF-DOUBT.

Each person develops a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

I can’t believe you are a Christian and demanding this woman meet your expectations. Get over yourself, my goodness. That’s crazy.

I'm not a Christian. There are more than two people in this thread. Someone upthread got offended that a person would dare, DARE I say, call this a political conversion. I'm simply pointing out that she herself extols the political side of her conversion far more, and in much greater detail, than the pretty glossed-over "I missed having faith" and "I go to Church now" and "atheism and Islam didn't cut it for me." I don't care why she does what she does, but I do care that people are calling anybody "intellectually dishonest" for the most honest reading of this announcement. She details for like 3 pages the geopolitical and personal political reasoning of her foray into Christianity, then throws in some soft vagueness around how she's learning and she's sure it will be great when she understands it. That's a political conversion, however offended you are by the terminology. And maybe she'll develop a personal relationship with JC, like you presume she will, and that's swell. But it's not the basis of her conversion, in her own words, and you deciding that you're Head Christian In Charge of Not Being Allowed to Notice the Obvious is . . . well, it feels political.

So you aren’t a Christian- but definitely have decided what Christians should do. Let me know what you identify as and let me judge if what you are doing measures up. Stat.

Dcum made up the term “political conversion.” That’s not a term used anywhere else.

She clearly states that atheism has not given her any meaningful life, and it’s self destructive to not have a meaningful life. That is her opinion and she’s clearly decided after being an atheist for years it’s not met her needs. Sorry if that offends you, but she’s speaking her truth.

I'm the other PP (the Christian one) and the only people who seem "offended" are the people who are outraged that some of us have opinions about her. She's free to "speak her truth" (a phrase she would likely hate, but whatever), and I'm free to gauge how much I think her "truth" accords with the truth as taught our shared faith. As I said, I genuinely hope she believes that Jesus is God incarnate, died, and was resurrected, but I don't see that in her writings.

For an ex-Muslim to say publicly that Jesus is God incarnate and was resurrected is possibly almost as provocative as just leaving the faith for atheism. You're asking a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m concerned anyone would convert religions based on ‘civilizational war’

As a Christian I'm hopeful that God will work in her heart through the church she attends, reading the Bible, and meeting other Christians (how he works in all our hearts), but I'm inherently suspicious of these kind of political conversions. I've seen them on the left and the right, and I don't often see them develop in the way that I'd hope a Christian would. Her statement is long on politics and short on any kind of encounter with the Christ, which isn't encouraging.

What is a political religious conversion?

You are suspicious of her? Suspicious about what?

DP but read the statement. She's very explicit that this is a political conversion - to defend Western civilization and provide a unifying mindset for the West in the global war against "three different but related forces: the resurgence of great-power authoritarianism and expansionism in the forms of the Chinese Communist Party and Vladimir Putin’s Russia; the rise of global Islamism, which threatens to mobilise a vast population against the West; and the viral spread of woke ideology, which is eating into the moral fibre of the next generation." PPP is not being unfair to call this a political conversion; Ali makes it explicit that the conversion is an outgrowth of, and in service to, her political point of view.

“Yet I would not be truthful if I attributed my embrace of Christianity solely to the realisation that atheism is too weak and divisive a doctrine to fortify us against our menacing foes. I have also turned to Christianity because I ultimately found life without any spiritual solace unendurable — indeed very nearly self-destructive. Atheism failed to answer a simple question: what is the meaning and purpose of life?“

No, she is very clear on her personal perspective about her conversion. You are being intellectually dishonest.

She wanted to believe in something, and she feels that Christianity is the something that most closely supports her political beliefs. It's silly to pretend that the argument she leads off with, and spends most of the article laying out in detail, is a subpoint to the "I needed something to believe" angle. She doesn't even say that. She says it's not solely about politics, it's also about spiritual solace. The idea that you could read that, and then be offended that someone calls it a political conversion, is what's intellectually dishonest.

I am surprised by people who are surprised by her rightward drift though. She was shaped by very extreme religious dogma that made no distinction between religion and politics from a young age, she's used to that mindset. She rebelled against it when a huge line was crossed (9/11), and got a lot of public acclaim (and attacks, to be fair) for staking out that position. But you can see by her argument about war of civilizations that she still buys in very deeply to the ideas taught by the Muslim Brotherhood, she's just switched teams. It's a comfortable argument for her, she knows it inside and out, she can make a convincing case for it from the Muslim, atheist West, and now Christian West POVs. It's like watching a really talented mock trial participant at this point.

"I still have a great deal to learn about Christianity," she wrote in an essay published this week. "I discover a little more at church each Sunday. But I have recognized, in my own long journey through a wilderness of fear and self-doubt, that there is a better way to manage the challenges of existence than either Islam or unbelief had to offer.”

She’s a new Christian. She has publicly declared she is a Christian, admits she has much to learn about Christianity, attends church, and openly admits Christianity is helping her through her LONG JOURNEY of FEAR and SELF-DOUBT.

Each person develops a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.

I can’t believe you are a Christian and demanding this woman meet your expectations. Get over yourself, my goodness. That’s crazy.

I'm not a Christian. There are more than two people in this thread. Someone upthread got offended that a person would dare, DARE I say, call this a political conversion. I'm simply pointing out that she herself extols the political side of her conversion far more, and in much greater detail, than the pretty glossed-over "I missed having faith" and "I go to Church now" and "atheism and Islam didn't cut it for me." I don't care why she does what she does, but I do care that people are calling anybody "intellectually dishonest" for the most honest reading of this announcement. She details for like 3 pages the geopolitical and personal political reasoning of her foray into Christianity, then throws in some soft vagueness around how she's learning and she's sure it will be great when she understands it. That's a political conversion, however offended you are by the terminology. And maybe she'll develop a personal relationship with JC, like you presume she will, and that's swell. But it's not the basis of her conversion, in her own words, and you deciding that you're Head Christian In Charge of Not Being Allowed to Notice the Obvious is . . . well, it feels political.

So you aren’t a Christian- but definitely have decided what Christians should do. Let me know what you identify as and let me judge if what you are doing measures up. Stat.

Dcum made up the term “political conversion.” That’s not a term used anywhere else.

She clearly states that atheism has not given her any meaningful life, and it’s self destructive to not have a meaningful life. That is her opinion and she’s clearly decided after being an atheist for years it’s not met her needs. Sorry if that offends you, but she’s speaking her truth.

I'm the other PP (the Christian one) and the only people who seem "offended" are the people who are outraged that some of us have opinions about her. She's free to "speak her truth" (a phrase she would likely hate, but whatever), and I'm free to gauge how much I think her "truth" accords with the truth as taught our shared faith. As I said, I genuinely hope she believes that Jesus is God incarnate, died, and was resurrected, but I don't see that in her writings.

For an ex-Muslim to say publicly that Jesus is God incarnate and was resurrected is possibly almost as provocative as just leaving the faith for atheism. You're asking a lot.

It's provocative but people do it. There are a lot of people throughout the Arab world who have loudly converted from Islam to Christianity. Sometimes they live in hiding.

[Anonymous]

What kind of Christianity? I have Catholic relatives in Europe and have on occasion attended Mass with them. They're not as big on Jesus as American Christians. Never hear the phrase Jesus is Lord from them but they talk about the Holy Trinity.

[Anonymous]

Love Ayaan.

This line of thinking is nothing new. There are several atheist “cultural Christians” who have a similar philosophy but they seem to be more prevalent in the UK.