Is four years of a foreign language still recommended for college admission?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused by this "4 years of language in high school" distinction. My son took 8th grade Spanish 1 as a high school class at his middle school. It will be listed on his high school transcript. Just like Algebra 1 Honors in 8th grade is a high school credit listed on his transcript.

In that case, is it still frowned upon by some colleges to take Spanish 1 in 8th grade? I don't see why it would be.

Sure, Algebra I from 8th grade counts as high-school level math. But colleges still want four years of math during high school, too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused by this "4 years of language in high school" distinction. My son took 8th grade Spanish 1 as a high school class at his middle school. It will be listed on his high school transcript. Just like Algebra 1 Honors in 8th grade is a high school credit listed on his transcript.

In that case, is it still frowned upon by some colleges to take Spanish 1 in 8th grade? I don't see why it would be.

Sure, Algebra I from 8th grade counts as high-school level math. But colleges still want four years of math during high school, too.

But that is different because Maryland requires four years of math in high school to graduate so everyone in Maryland will meet that requirement.

In contrast, Maryland requires two years of language to graduate both of which can be earned in middle school.

So is the UMD requirement aligned with the Maryland graduation requirement or do they require two years in high school in addition to whatever was taken in middle school?

I understand much more is recommended.
It would be helpful to know minimal requirements to have application considered.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just curious and looking ahead for my 9th grader. He's in his second year of Spanish and struggling a bit. Wondering if he does spanish 3 sophomore year if that's enough? It's his only B!

He's in Honors orchestra already as a sophomore, plays on the J-V baseball team (and actually is a starter), and has As in all his other honors subjects. Currently in Algebra 2, so on that math pacing and will take math through senior year.

What do you think? Is three years of a language enough?

Yes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny how you bring up orchestra and baseball. Unless he’s recruited for either, they will play second fiddle to his course load.

Do colleges not consider extracurriculars anymore? I guess I'm really out of it. I brought that all up to say that he's a well-rounded kid (excels in a sport and in music) that is getting excellent grades in Honors/AP classes for math, english, science, history. I thought that might mean that having 3 years of a language would be glanced over if everything else was good. Apparently I have some research to do!

Of course extracurriculars matter, but never as much as coursework unless the college is recruiting you. The admissions committee will look at your grades and courses first, then everything else. Orchestra is not going to make up for not having four years of a language if four years of a language is important to a college - which it is for most selective colleges.

Orchestra is a course and even qualifies for honors weighting. Why should it be valued less than language? I would argue that it is just as rigorous to be a part of a high level orchestra as it is to do four years of a language.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny how you bring up orchestra and baseball. Unless he’s recruited for either, they will play second fiddle to his course load.

Do colleges not consider extracurriculars anymore? I guess I'm really out of it. I brought that all up to say that he's a well-rounded kid (excels in a sport and in music) that is getting excellent grades in Honors/AP classes for math, english, science, history. I thought that might mean that having 3 years of a language would be glanced over if everything else was good. Apparently I have some research to do!

Of course extracurriculars matter, but never as much as coursework unless the college is recruiting you. The admissions committee will look at your grades and courses first, then everything else. Orchestra is not going to make up for not having four years of a language if four years of a language is important to a college - which it is for most selective colleges.

Orchestra is a course and even qualifies for honors weighting. Why should it be valued less than language? I would argue that it is just as rigorous to be a part of a high level orchestra as it is to do four years of a language.

I've heard it said "Respect the competition". At the more selective schools (if that is an opportunity on the table), imagine your student will have a doppelgänge - including sports, music, etc. Most everything very similar. Do you want to be the one with or without the most rigorous foreign language track?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny how you bring up orchestra and baseball. Unless he’s recruited for either, they will play second fiddle to his course load.

Do colleges not consider extracurriculars anymore? I guess I'm really out of it. I brought that all up to say that he's a well-rounded kid (excels in a sport and in music) that is getting excellent grades in Honors/AP classes for math, english, science, history. I thought that might mean that having 3 years of a language would be glanced over if everything else was good. Apparently I have some research to do!

Of course extracurriculars matter, but never as much as coursework unless the college is recruiting you. The admissions committee will look at your grades and courses first, then everything else. Orchestra is not going to make up for not having four years of a language if four years of a language is important to a college - which it is for most selective colleges.

Orchestra is a course and even qualifies for honors weighting. Why should it be valued less than language? I would argue that it is just as rigorous to be a part of a high level orchestra as it is to do four years of a language.

You can “argue” what it should be all you want, but it won’t change the fact that it’s not considered a core academic subject by any college in America while a foreign language is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Funny how you bring up orchestra and baseball. Unless he’s recruited for either, they will play second fiddle to his course load.

Do colleges not consider extracurriculars anymore? I guess I'm really out of it. I brought that all up to say that he's a well-rounded kid (excels in a sport and in music) that is getting excellent grades in Honors/AP classes for math, english, science, history. I thought that might mean that having 3 years of a language would be glanced over if everything else was good. Apparently I have some research to do!

Of course extracurriculars matter, but never as much as coursework unless the college is recruiting you. The admissions committee will look at your grades and courses first, then everything else. Orchestra is not going to make up for not having four years of a language if four years of a language is important to a college - which it is for most selective colleges.

Orchestra is a course and even qualifies for honors weighting. Why should it be valued less than language? I would argue that it is just as rigorous to be a part of a high level orchestra as it is to do four years of a language.

I've heard it said "Respect the competition". At the more selective schools (if that is an opportunity on the table), imagine your student will have a doppelgänge - including sports, music, etc. Most everything very similar. Do you want to be the one with or without the most rigorous foreign language track?

good point

[Anonymous]

When referencing "years of", does year = semester in schools that operate on the 4x4 system? By way of example, my DS took Mandarin Chinese I (Q1 and Q2) and Mandarin Chinese II (Q3 and Q4) in his freshman year, and Mandarin Chinese III (Q1 and Q2) and Mandarin Chinese IV (Q3 and Q4) in his sophomore year. All of these are full year courses, so I'm assuming that admissions will view this as "4 years of foreign language studies".

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:When referencing "years of", does year = semester in schools that operate on the 4x4 system? By way of example, my DS took Mandarin Chinese I (Q1 and Q2) and Mandarin Chinese II (Q3 and Q4) in his freshman year, and Mandarin Chinese III (Q1 and Q2) and Mandarin Chinese IV (Q3 and Q4) in his sophomore year. All of these are full year courses, so I'm assuming that admissions will view this as "4 years of foreign language studies".

Probably something to ask of a few schools you are interested in for clarification. It seems very school dependent. My DC is taking an AP language Sophomore year (her school starts in 7th grade). We were unclear if maxing out a language track counted as 4 years, so we asked a few schools. This is what we heard:

UChicago - Maxing out at AP is fine, its not something we see that often (for her language)
Amhearst - Go where your interests take you, but a lot of the student we see have 3 or 4 years. (i.e. take another language)
Brown - We recommend a language in each of your high school years (i.e. take another language)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How does it work if kid has already been taking the language before HS? Our MS says kids typically place out of levels 1 and 2 of HS in the same language, so does that mean they need to repeat the classes so they still have 4 years of the language?

No, not necessary for most schools.

Signed,
Parent of kid who completed Level 4 in 10th grade and was admitted to several highly ranked (t10) colleges

[Anonymous]

My kid called the admissions officer at 4 of the schools he is interested in. You’d be amazed at how little they knew about their own requirements! And this is top 10.
One AO thinks that if the middle school grade shows up on the HS transcript, it counts. Another said that taking through French 4 probably is probably enough. These are schools that listed their FL requirement as recommended, not required. Their lack of confidence in their replies make me think that it won’t rule you out.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid called the admissions officer at 4 of the schools he is interested in. You’d be amazed at how little they knew about their own requirements! And this is top 10.
One AO thinks that if the middle school grade shows up on the HS transcript, it counts. Another said that taking through French 4 probably is probably enough. These are schools that listed their FL requirement as recommended, not required. Their lack of confidence in their replies make me think that it won’t rule you out.

I don't think the AOs are answering phones. Your kid probably talked to the work/study kid working the AO's phones.

[Anonymous]

DC started Japanese in 7th grade (was A/B class) Japanese I in 8th, II 9th, currently III 10th and will take IV and V respectively through graduation. Not going to stop after hitting the HS graduation requirement.

If your school offers up to V, I imagine colleges want to see the student take it all the way through 12th.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid called the admissions officer at 4 of the schools he is interested in. You’d be amazed at how little they knew about their own requirements! And this is top 10.
One AO thinks that if the middle school grade shows up on the HS transcript, it counts. Another said that taking through French 4 probably is probably enough. These are schools that listed their FL requirement as recommended, not required. Their lack of confidence in their replies make me think that it won’t rule you out.

I don't think the AOs are answering phones. Your kid probably talked to the work/study kid working the AO's phones.

+1. or by the hour readers. Best practice is to check college confidential or online for university and look for an actual quote from the Dean of Admissions, like Dean J at UVA (who has been pretty clear on College Confidential that they usually look for four years in the same language, as in continue on in Honors or AP if you've exhausted the regular track.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How does it work if kid has already been taking the language before HS? Our MS says kids typically place out of levels 1 and 2 of HS in the same language, so does that mean they need to repeat the classes so they still have 4 years of the language?

No, not necessary for most schools.

Signed,
Parent of kid who completed Level 4 in 10th grade and was admitted to several highly ranked (t10) colleges

But to be clear for parents reading, most of the top schools DO look for 4 years. Sure "Parent of kid" above may be able to cite one example but she also doesn't say whether or not kid was applying for tech instead of liberal arts; or is URM or first-generation or otherwise hooked.