For students who took 12 AP- gpa vs rigor?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not true. AP tests are for college credit. They add little value for admission. In our district, the tests are around $100-$150 to take. Many kids are opting out due to cost and not qualifying for a fee reduction. Maybe it is school specific but this is the info we got from the school counselor.

wrong. More elite schools are looking fondly upon a kid that gets all 5s. Now with test optional and grade inflation they are looking at them as a sign of college readiness.

Georgetown used to require SAT subject tests. Now the AP exam scores can provide valuable information. With US pass rates of only 20% on may subjects, a kid scoring 5s across the board is a very strong applicant and speaks to the fact his course grade 'A' wasn't an inflated 'A'.

NYU even lets you submit a certain # of AP scores instead of ACT/SAT.

That’s good if you want to go test optional but this kid already has a high ACT

Every bit helps. Get that 34 to a 35 (which is more common now since only high scores are being submitted) AND show you can get 5s. Is it necessary? Well, maybe not. But, why not do everything you can depending on your goals.

Our school said the usual to the question: is it better to get an A in a non-AP course or a B in the AP course? Answer: get the A in the AP course. It's one of those college counselor/AO not-so-funny jokes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, none of us know if your son will get accepted. If he has a strong preference for one of those LAC colleges you listed, apply ED. He definitely has a shot, but be realistic and have other easier-admit choices that your son would be happy at! You mentioned Pitt, good option maybe add a few more that he loves.

Also, to add: have him work magic on his essays. You mentioned he has a strong sense of his personality and drive, colleges really like this.

Essays matter very little for the most part...unless they are awful and then it's a negative.

You can see the stats on the weight essays are given at any particular school. Most first have a hard merit/academic cutoff before the essays are even read--application forwarded.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All I can tell you is my son's experience with this last year. Same AP's (he had 15, including AP BC calc, Phys C, etc). When he applied to colleges, he had a 3.9 uw at a W high school, and 5s in all APs taken to date (obviously there were a handful of APs he was taking senior year so wouldnt get those results until after he graduated).

When we asked whether the rigor or the grades were more important, we were told by his private college counselor, and by any admissions rep we asked this of while he was looking at colleges, that ideally the applicant will have all As AND the highest rigor of classes (not helpful!). His private counselor seemed to think his 3 Bs took a number of colleges off the table for him.

If your son is at a W high school, I don't think that GPA will be offset by the classes he is taking. There are too many other kids taking those classes who have all As.

Nonetheless, I still think he'll have a good chance at the colleges you listed, especially if he applies ED to one.

Your kid sounds impressive! Where did he end up?

Yes he does!
Op here: the thing is most kids don’t double up in science and math, and then also take the hardest humanities courses at his HS according to his counselor. So it is hard to compare the gpas of those who don’t against his. That’s why I find the sort of comments PP shared that the admissions people told her about rigor vs grades so unhelpful. Taking AP psychology is not the same as AP Chem for instance. Is opting to take take no electives and doubling up in math and science classes during junior and senior year the norm at your W school?
I am worried that his over reaching with his rigor has damaged his chances by not taking easier classes and then (likely) getting more As. It seems some colleges are more aware of this, does anyone know which ones are more course selection focused?

[Anonymous]

I think if he plans both ED1 and 2 at a slac, he’ll be a very strong applicant. Really impressive rigor, male, full pay, excellent test scores. I’d be stunned if he didn’t get in to at least one of those SLACs after two 2 ED applications.

[Anonymous]

As people have said, admissions teams want to see rigor PLUS high grades PLUS high test scores (if sent). So I wouldn't assume that the rigor will make up for the grades.

That said, with the other personal qualities you list, it's certainly worthwhile to put in the best possible application to the more selective schools you list. Mine are two of the schools you list. Other places they applied or considered beyond the highest reaches: in-state flagship, Vassar, Macalester, Oberlin, Kalamazoo, Lawrence, Wooster.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, none of us know if your son will get accepted. If he has a strong preference for one of those LAC colleges you listed, apply ED. He definitely has a shot, but be realistic and have other easier-admit choices that your son would be happy at! You mentioned Pitt, good option maybe add a few more that he loves.

Also, to add: have him work magic on his essays. You mentioned he has a strong sense of his personality and drive, colleges really like this.

Essays matter very little for the most part...unless they are awful and then it's a negative.

You can see the stats on the weight essays are given at any particular school. Most first have a hard merit/academic cutoff before the essays are even read--application forwarded.

This isn’t accurate for the schools OP is considering. These are colleges with holistic admissions and essays are an essential part of that. Time must be spent on them. Of course rigor and GPA are most important. But essays set students apart.

[Anonymous]

Unless your high school is extremely well known to AOs, they don't know that the high school class called AP Chem IS harder than the high school class AP Psych. This is very teacher dependent. There are high schools where the Chem teacher is easier than the Psych teacher. If your school profile has a grade distribution by class, that helps.

AOs know that AP Chem test has a pass rate at 50-54 % and that the AP Psych test has a pass rate 55-64 % and is generally a harder test/class (but perhaps not to the degree that you think), but the won't assume the class is harder at your high school. This is why nailing a 5 on 6 or 8 tests through junior year is a lot more impressive that just the course load - it's quantitative.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:All I can tell you is my son's experience with this last year. Same AP's (he had 15, including AP BC calc, Phys C, etc). When he applied to colleges, he had a 3.9 uw at a W high school, and 5s in all APs taken to date (obviously there were a handful of APs he was taking senior year so wouldnt get those results until after he graduated).

When we asked whether the rigor or the grades were more important, we were told by his private college counselor, and by any admissions rep we asked this of while he was looking at colleges, that ideally the applicant will have all As AND the highest rigor of classes (not helpful!). His private counselor seemed to think his 3 Bs took a number of colleges off the table for him.

If your son is at a W high school, I don't think that GPA will be offset by the classes he is taking. There are too many other kids taking those classes who have all As.

Nonetheless, I still think he'll have a good chance at the colleges you listed, especially if he applies ED to one.

Your kid sounds impressive! Where did he end up?

Yes he does!
Op here: the thing is most kids don’t double up in science and math, and then also take the hardest humanities courses at his HS according to his counselor. So it is hard to compare the gpas of those who don’t against his. That’s why I find the sort of comments PP shared that the admissions people told her about rigor vs grades so unhelpful. Taking AP psychology is not the same as AP Chem for instance. Is opting to take take no electives and doubling up in math and science classes during junior and senior year the norm at your W school?
I am worried that his over reaching with his rigor has damaged his chances by not taking easier classes and then (likely) getting more As. It seems some colleges are more aware of this, does anyone know which ones are more course selection focused?

I think a lot of people grapple with this same question, and there aren’t easy answers. Colleges are very opaque. His personal qualities will come into play, so spend time building a strong application that highlights any unique characteristics, interests, intellectual thought, courage/kindness. Strong teacher recommendations, essays and his EC will really help round out his application. Good luck!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thank you! I find it frustrating looking at the school profile online as it gives no insight into the average level of rigor, just the gpas.

Yes, that is absolutely useless data.

[Anonymous]

are there high AP exam scores to go with these classes or not?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:are there high AP exam scores to go with these classes or not?

+1

[Anonymous]

IME, if you already have a certain level of rigor -- at least one AP in each subject matter area, then GPA matters much more than loading up on more APs. If more APs means a lower GPA, you are shooting yourself in the foot trying to achieve something that wasn't really going to change your profile enough to make the risk worth it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Unless your high school is extremely well known to AOs, they don't know that the high school class called AP Chem IS harder than the high school class AP Psych. This is very teacher dependent. There are high schools where the Chem teacher is easier than the Psych teacher. If your school profile has a grade distribution by class, that helps.

AOs know that AP Chem test has a pass rate at 50-54 % and that the AP Psych test has a pass rate 55-64 % and is generally a harder test/class (but perhaps not to the degree that you think), but the won't assume the class is harder at your high school. This is why nailing a 5 on 6 or 8 tests through junior year is a lot more impressive that just the course load - it's quantitative.

Oh, I disagree. AP Chemistry is generally considered more rigorous than AP Psych by most colleges.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:are there high AP exam scores to go with these classes or not?

+1

+2

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless your high school is extremely well known to AOs, they don't know that the high school class called AP Chem IS harder than the high school class AP Psych. This is very teacher dependent. There are high schools where the Chem teacher is easier than the Psych teacher. If your school profile has a grade distribution by class, that helps.

AOs know that AP Chem test has a pass rate at 50-54 % and that the AP Psych test has a pass rate 55-64 % and is generally a harder test/class (but perhaps not to the degree that you think), but the won't assume the class is harder at your high school. This is why nailing a 5 on 6 or 8 tests through junior year is a lot more impressive that just the course load - it's quantitative.

Oh, I disagree. AP Chemistry is generally considered more rigorous than AP Psych by most colleges.

Eh, it comes down to test scores. An A plus a 5 means something. Otherwise you're back to dealing with either knowing or not knowing if that's a teacher who is generous with As or not.