ISO info on psychosis in late teens/early 20s.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cousin just called and told us that her DD/our niece has been admitted to a psych ER - has been there for a few days. While the diagnosis is not conclusive, cousin is sharing that the doctors on duty are talking about psychotic disorder, schizophrenia, etc. We are close - more like siblings - and she is asking me to find out anything I can. Have come to this forum for other questions as folks here tend to be more gentle as well as helpful. I would appreciate any information people can share. Cousin told me they are doing tests, but sounds like they do not think this is a drug-induced psychosis as of now.

TIA.

Late teens and 20s are a common time for schizophrenia diagnosis. I am not sure what state your family member is in but some states have increasingly focused on creating supports specific to "first episode psychosis" because it is thought that psychosis causes some damage to the brain that "kindles" further episodes. Early treatment is key.

Here is an example in Maryland of a "First Episode" Clinic -

https://www.mprc.umaryland.edu/Clinical-Care/First-Episode-Clinic/

You might want to have your family member ask about this kind of resource in their state.

Also, I don't know the age of the niece, but if she is in school, the IEP or 504 process can be used to help her while she is recovering and finding proper treatment.

If you want to know more about schizophrenia, Ellyn Saks has written a good memoir about her experience of the illness.

TY!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know what she thinks you'd be able to find out what with you not being a psychologist, not being her daughter's psychologist, you not having access to any of the test results being run on her daughter, and you not being a professional psychiatric disorder researcher. Your posting on a message board to get opinions from CPA's and stay at home moms with English degrees is not going to be helpful.

Why not do what you can to encourage her to be patient and listen to the actual doctors treating her daughter and then do what they suggest? That would actually be helpful to her.

Seriously? That's what you came here to say when I ended my post that folks in this forum tend to be gentle and helpful.

FWIW, CPAs and WAHMs with English degrees may have mental illnesses or know someone who does.

The next time perhaps you should type this out, reread the original comment, then delete because you realize you have nothing to offer.

Good grief you're even worse than I initially thought. Fine, I'll be even more helpful than I already was and really spell it out for you: your niece doesn't even have a diagnosis, so people who are actual professionals can't help her, let alone strangers who don't know her. This is a waiting period, not a doing period. Don't take advice from strangers on the internet about medical issues.

Go eff yourself.

Not OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know what she thinks you'd be able to find out what with you not being a psychologist, not being her daughter's psychologist, you not having access to any of the test results being run on her daughter, and you not being a professional psychiatric disorder researcher. Your posting on a message board to get opinions from CPA's and stay at home moms with English degrees is not going to be helpful.

Why not do what you can to encourage her to be patient and listen to the actual doctors treating her daughter and then do what they suggest? That would actually be helpful to her.

Seriously? That's what you came here to say when I ended my post that folks in this forum tend to be gentle and helpful.

FWIW, CPAs and WAHMs with English degrees may have mental illnesses or know someone who does.

The next time perhaps you should type this out, reread the original comment, then delete because you realize you have nothing to offer.

Good grief you're even worse than I initially thought. Fine, I'll be even more helpful than I already was and really spell it out for you: your niece doesn't even have a diagnosis, so people who are actual professionals can't help her, let alone strangers who don't know her. This is a waiting period, not a doing period. Don't take advice from strangers on the internet about medical issues.

Go eff yourself.

Not OP.

Right??? How unnecessarily cruel and profoundly unhelpful.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know what she thinks you'd be able to find out what with you not being a psychologist, not being her daughter's psychologist, you not having access to any of the test results being run on her daughter, and you not being a professional psychiatric disorder researcher. Your posting on a message board to get opinions from CPA's and stay at home moms with English degrees is not going to be helpful.

Why not do what you can to encourage her to be patient and listen to the actual doctors treating her daughter and then do what they suggest? That would actually be helpful to her.

Seriously? That's what you came here to say when I ended my post that folks in this forum tend to be gentle and helpful.

FWIW, CPAs and WAHMs with English degrees may have mental illnesses or know someone who does.

The next time perhaps you should type this out, reread the original comment, then delete because you realize you have nothing to offer.

+1 what a jerk. Why are you on this board if you distain the posters and don’t find any value in the forum. Posters here an certainly chime in with their experiences with teen mental illness.

[Anonymous]

So, ruling out drug induced means they are evaluating to see if it is a potential contributor or causative. Recent information has show pot use increased likelihood of schizophrenia. It also seems to induce a medical condition that can appear like schizophrenia. So, awareness of pot, or other psychoactive drugs will be an important step. Anticipate that if may take awhile off these drugs to see if the hallucinations, other symptoms resolve. Would talk to child’s pediatrician to see if they know psychiatrists who have managed this in other kids well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:So, ruling out drug induced means they are evaluating to see if it is a potential contributor or causative. Recent information has show pot use increased likelihood of schizophrenia. It also seems to induce a medical condition that can appear like schizophrenia. So, awareness of pot, or other psychoactive drugs will be an important step. Anticipate that if may take awhile off these drugs to see if the hallucinations, other symptoms resolve. Would talk to child’s pediatrician to see if they know psychiatrists who have managed this in other kids well.

So niece doesn't really smoke pot. She is fairly candid about what she does and is pretty open that pot is not her thing. She does socially drink with friends on the weekend, but that's largely it according to her mom.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, ruling out drug induced means they are evaluating to see if it is a potential contributor or causative. Recent information has show pot use increased likelihood of schizophrenia. It also seems to induce a medical condition that can appear like schizophrenia. So, awareness of pot, or other psychoactive drugs will be an important step. Anticipate that if may take awhile off these drugs to see if the hallucinations, other symptoms resolve. Would talk to child’s pediatrician to see if they know psychiatrists who have managed this in other kids well.

So niece doesn't really smoke pot. She is fairly candid about what she does and is pretty open that pot is not her thing. She does socially drink with friends on the weekend, but that's largely it according to her mom.

Someone needs to have a serious conversation with her that pot can exasperate psychosis. I have first-hand experience about this with my family member. We thought the psychosis was under control and then my family member ended up missing for three weeks. When they finally got back, they filled us in on what has been going on (hiding symptoms) and they had been smoking pot 3+ times a day. We got them into a treatment program and the doctors told them they could never use pot again. Well, now they also refuse to take medication so here we are years later, and they still are not in a healthy place. It’s a very hard road, and pot makes it much worse. My point being even if she’s not doing it now. She really needs to understand what happens if she does.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Though you say they have ruled out drug induced psychosis, it’s not always easy to test for all substances and teens may not tell parents what they’ve done (hopefully they will be more open with doctors). A family member took mushrooms to self medicate depression and it caused a psychotic episode.

Pot can also induce psychosis and, because it is now de-criminalized, patients may nog think it is the kind of drug that they need to report in considering psychosis - because everybody does it and few become psychotic. OTOH, now that it's decriminalized, people may be more willing to self-report.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know what she thinks you'd be able to find out what with you not being a psychologist, not being her daughter's psychologist, you not having access to any of the test results being run on her daughter, and you not being a professional psychiatric disorder researcher. Your posting on a message board to get opinions from CPA's and stay at home moms with English degrees is not going to be helpful.

Why not do what you can to encourage her to be patient and listen to the actual doctors treating her daughter and then do what they suggest? That would actually be helpful to her.

Seriously? That's what you came here to say when I ended my post that folks in this forum tend to be gentle and helpful.

FWIW, CPAs and WAHMs with English degrees may have mental illnesses or know someone who does.

The next time perhaps you should type this out, reread the original comment, then delete because you realize you have nothing to offer.

Good grief you're even worse than I initially thought. Fine, I'll be even more helpful than I already was and really spell it out for you: your niece doesn't even have a diagnosis, so people who are actual professionals can't help her, let alone strangers who don't know her. This is a waiting period, not a doing period. Don't take advice from strangers on the internet about medical issues.

Go eff yourself.

Not OP.

Right??? How unnecessarily cruel and profoundly unhelpful.

Yes, but they got that nasty little burst of dopamine from being deliberately unkind to someone who’s already struggling, so mission accomplished.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know what she thinks you'd be able to find out what with you not being a psychologist, not being her daughter's psychologist, you not having access to any of the test results being run on her daughter, and you not being a professional psychiatric disorder researcher. Your posting on a message board to get opinions from CPA's and stay at home moms with English degrees is not going to be helpful.

Why not do what you can to encourage her to be patient and listen to the actual doctors treating her daughter and then do what they suggest? That would actually be helpful to her.

Seriously? That's what you came here to say when I ended my post that folks in this forum tend to be gentle and helpful.

FWIW, CPAs and WAHMs with English degrees may have mental illnesses or know someone who does.

The next time perhaps you should type this out, reread the original comment, then delete because you realize you have nothing to offer.

Good grief you're even worse than I initially thought. Fine, I'll be even more helpful than I already was and really spell it out for you: your niece doesn't even have a diagnosis, so people who are actual professionals can't help her, let alone strangers who don't know her. This is a waiting period, not a doing period. Don't take advice from strangers on the internet about medical issues.

DP, who actually is a mental health professional and who has treated people with psychotic illnesses: yes, actual professionals CAN help her. They can keep her calm. They can help her family stay as calm as possible. They can provide a safe place to wait to rule out substance-induced psychosis (as the OP mentioned). They can take detailed histories from folks willing to provide that information. None of those things are dependent upon a formal diagnosis.

If it’s ever helpful at some point, OP, the improved care for initial psychotic episodes is largely due to an NIMH initiative called RAISE (Recovery After an Initial Schizophrenia Episode). Sometimes family and friends find it helpful to learn more about the research used to guide treatment. Sometimes they don’t, which is fine. Just wanted to share in case it’s helpful. And I’ll +1,000 the recommendation for NAMI.

+1 to this rec. As someone who has a loved one with mental illness - I find it very helpful to read the NIMH pages about mental illness and, in addition to schizophrenia, they have also run large trials on bipolar and ADHD.

I find it useful to peruse the clinicaltrials.gov website, which I have done for mental illness but also COVID and migraine - it can be a one preview of new thinking or treatment about illnesses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Cousin just called and told us that her DD/our niece has been admitted to a psych ER - has been there for a few days. While the diagnosis is not conclusive, cousin is sharing that the doctors on duty are talking about psychotic disorder, schizophrenia, etc. We are close - more like siblings - and she is asking me to find out anything I can. Have come to this forum for other questions as folks here tend to be more gentle as well as helpful. I would appreciate any information people can share. Cousin told me they are doing tests, but sounds like they do not think this is a drug-induced psychosis as of now.

TIA.

Late teens and 20s are a common time for schizophrenia diagnosis. I am not sure what state your family member is in but some states have increasingly focused on creating supports specific to "first episode psychosis" because it is thought that psychosis causes some damage to the brain that "kindles" further episodes. Early treatment is key.

Here is an example in Maryland of a "First Episode" Clinic -

https://www.mprc.umaryland.edu/Clinical-Care/First-Episode-Clinic/

You might want to have your family member ask about this kind of resource in their state.

Also, I don't know the age of the niece, but if she is in school, the IEP or 504 process can be used to help her while she is recovering and finding proper treatment.

If you want to know more about schizophrenia, Ellyn Saks has written a good memoir about her experience of the illness.

TY!

I see you mentioned she is 19 - so I want to adjust what I wrote - IEP and 504 processes only apply to public schools up to 12 th grade. BUT, private schools at any grade or colleges and universities must accommodate (under the ADA) serious illnesses like schizophrenia, which are considered long term disabilities even when well-treated because sudden relapse is possible.

If your niece is in college, her family can contact the Office of Disabilities and ask to meet with someone who can help explain what the process is for notifying professors she is ill, providing information about how to and by what dates request to withdraw, request incompletes or extensions on work. Schools (like Yale and some other Ivies) sometimes have unfair, discriminatory policies about re-admitting students

If the family bought "tuition insurance", they need to read the plan carefully and see if new onset mental illness is covered (it is on our university's plan).

I know it seems like it might create pressure to refer to school, but IME, kids really feel like this kind of mental health crisis is destroying their perception of what their life could be, which is a huge stressor. Parents can also be under financial pressure because losing a semester's worth of tuition can be a huge financial burden.

Finally, even without a signed healthcare form or school release form, you can sometimes navigate "consent" issues. Consent doesn't have to be a particular signed form (although that's helpful). A good healthcare worker can often frame an oral question to the patient in a way that encourages them to provide oral consent. Schools have to tell you about process even if they can't tell you about a particular child. School websites for the disability and registrar's office often have a lot of good information about these policies.

[Anonymous]

Something else to consider, depending on what state they live in, is a psychiatric advanced directive:

https://www.nami.org/Advocacy/Policy-Priorities/Responding-to-Crises/Psychiatric-Advance-Directives

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know what she thinks you'd be able to find out what with you not being a psychologist, not being her daughter's psychologist, you not having access to any of the test results being run on her daughter, and you not being a professional psychiatric disorder researcher. Your posting on a message board to get opinions from CPA's and stay at home moms with English degrees is not going to be helpful.

Why not do what you can to encourage her to be patient and listen to the actual doctors treating her daughter and then do what they suggest? That would actually be helpful to her.

Seriously? That's what you came here to say when I ended my post that folks in this forum tend to be gentle and helpful.

FWIW, CPAs and WAHMs with English degrees may have mental illnesses or know someone who does.

The next time perhaps you should type this out, reread the original comment, then delete because you realize you have nothing to offer.

Good grief you're even worse than I initially thought. Fine, I'll be even more helpful than I already was and really spell it out for you: your niece doesn't even have a diagnosis, so people who are actual professionals can't help her, let alone strangers who don't know her. This is a waiting period, not a doing period. Don't take advice from strangers on the internet about medical issues.

You’re the one who doesn’t get it. And your not in the least helpful.

It’s just nice to hear from people who have experienced it or who have gone through it with their child. She’s not asking for a treatment plan.

There are plenty of us with experience on how difficult it is to find a decent psychiatrist and the fact that there is still a lot of misdiagnosis because there are no concrete tests that can be done.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Something else to consider, depending on what state they live in, is a psychiatric advanced directive:

https://www.nami.org/Advocacy/Policy-Priorities/Responding-to-Crises/Psychiatric-Advance-Directives

will share - thanks

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Though you say they have ruled out drug induced psychosis, it’s not always easy to test for all substances and teens may not tell parents what they’ve done (hopefully they will be more open with doctors). A family member took mushrooms to self medicate depression and it caused a psychotic episode.

Pot can also induce psychosis and, because it is now de-criminalized, patients may nog think it is the kind of drug that they need to report in considering psychosis - because everybody does it and few become psychotic. OTOH, now that it's decriminalized, people may be more willing to self-report.

Got it. They are testing, but doesn't seem likely. Cousin's DD has offered a lot in these early days.