Buyers can't have it both ways

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Sorry, but I doubt any neighborhood in the DC area is "selling like hotcakes" in September 2023.

And if the market was truly as hot as you describe, then any house in any condition would sell, to developers, for instance, who will raze properties and build new.

So I don't dispute that un-renovated homes sell more slowly (DUH!), but I do dispute your description of your neighborhood.

I agree. Houses/townhouses in our NoVa neighborhood are selling like hotcakes even now. I see many with the original oak floors, kitchens and fixtures from mid-90s. Something else is up within this place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:i agree. i am stunned by how many people get turned off by an unstaged home with basic cosmetic issues (but the same people would claim as sellers that staging is worthless)

If not for these houses, people who have vision wouldn’t be able to find good deals.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are you sure it’s just cosmetic upgrades that need to be done?

See that's the thing - when someone hasn't kept up a house - there are usually other issues. At least that's my experience in looking at homes that "need a little work".

OP here. We went to an open house and the house appears to be well maintained - the HVAC and water heater were less than 10 years old, kitchen appliances and cabinets, counters have clearly been upgraded.

Just because an older couple hasn’t updated their paint and furniture doesn’t mean they haven’t maintained the house!!

Yeah, I second this. My parents are incredibly meticulous about maintenance and spend a lot on “systems” but their decor is straight out of 1990. I don’t think there is much correlation. I see a lot of cosmetically updated houses with problems.

Some of it is that younger homeowners just don’t know that much about repairs and home maintenance—in the previous generation I feel like there were more white collar guys who had a woodworking shop in the basement or had grown up with a dad who was a plumber and knew a lot.

[Anonymous]

1) If you’re already stretched to buy, you really don’t want to or in some cases can’t do renovations at the same time. Especially the really annoying stuff like carpet/flooring. 2) We don’t know what potential buyers have seen in the house - it could be more serious than just needing new carpets and a fresh coat of paint. 3) it’s always price. Any home will sell for the right price. If no one is biting at the current price they need to drop it OR do some of the fix-up work themselves. If it’s empty if the people have already moved out that could be an easy option. Take it off the market for a few weeks to get the basics done and re-list.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Millennials here are proving my point, y’all are lazy!!

Anyone can take down wallpaper and re-paint. That’s not bad, just time-consuming. You can also learn a lot about relatively minor stuff from YouTube videos, like installing a new kitchen faucet. But are you going to do your entire kitchen renovation yourself? Are you going to demo, hang those cabinets, take the right accurate measurements to get the granite guys to cut you the right size counter top, and while you’re at it demo your current flooring and then install your new floors? Are you going to rip out and then install a brand new toilet in your half bath to replace the one the previous owners hadn’t touched in 30 years?? It’s not “lazy,” it’s just being stretched financially to where you can’t afford to make hire contractors to make big repairs right away.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Millennials here are proving my point, y’all are lazy!!

Anyone can take down wallpaper and re-paint. That’s not bad, just time-consuming. You can also learn a lot about relatively minor stuff from YouTube videos, like installing a new kitchen faucet. But are you going to do your entire kitchen renovation yourself? Are you going to demo, hang those cabinets, take the right accurate measurements to get the granite guys to cut you the right size counter top, and while you’re at it demo your current flooring and then install your new floors? Are you going to rip out and then install a brand new toilet in your half bath to replace the one the previous owners hadn’t touched in 30 years?? It’s not “lazy,” it’s just being stretched financially to where you can’t afford to make hire contractors to make big repairs right away.

I don't think you read my post - the house I'm referring to needs purely cosmetic changes. It's outdated in style, but the kitchen is updated and the systems are newish. The exterior is really nice. I really, truly think a lot of buyers just want "turnkey" and are unwilling to do work on their house - maybe PPs are right and they don't have the money, but we bought our first house in very outdated condition and spent a few years updating it to our liking. Nothing was wrong with it, it just wasn't to our taste. Our initial updates were just paint and light fixtures and it made a huge difference. I wish I knew these neighbors - I'd suggest they paint and stage and try again. Either their real estate agent sucks or they didn't listen to her. Our house is very similar, we snapped it up. We haven't had to make any initial cosmetic changes except painting one room that one of my kids wanted to be pink instead of gray and swapping out a light fixture.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Millennials here are proving my point, y’all are lazy!!

Anyone can take down wallpaper and re-paint. That’s not bad, just time-consuming. You can also learn a lot about relatively minor stuff from YouTube videos, like installing a new kitchen faucet. But are you going to do your entire kitchen renovation yourself? Are you going to demo, hang those cabinets, take the right accurate measurements to get the granite guys to cut you the right size counter top, and while you’re at it demo your current flooring and then install your new floors? Are you going to rip out and then install a brand new toilet in your half bath to replace the one the previous owners hadn’t touched in 30 years?? It’s not “lazy,” it’s just being stretched financially to where you can’t afford to make hire contractors to make big repairs right away.

I don't think you read my post - the house I'm referring to needs purely cosmetic changes. It's outdated in style, but the kitchen is updated and the systems are newish. The exterior is really nice. I really, truly think a lot of buyers just want "turnkey" and are unwilling to do work on their house - maybe PPs are right and they don't have the money, but we bought our first house in very outdated condition and spent a few years updating it to our liking. Nothing was wrong with it, it just wasn't to our taste. Our initial updates were just paint and light fixtures and it made a huge difference. I wish I knew these neighbors - I'd suggest they paint and stage and try again. Either their real estate agent sucks or they didn't listen to her. Our house is very similar, we snapped it up. We haven't had to make any initial cosmetic changes except painting one room that one of my kids wanted to be pink instead of gray and swapping out a light fixture.

I don't think you read most replies. Fronting an additional $25K is a stretch for most first time home buyer, especially given the rapid rise in mortgages in the last 2 years. Plus contractor costs are hugely unpredictable and the $25k could end up being 35-40k. Buyers are not biting because they have better options.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Millennials here are proving my point, y’all are lazy!!

Anyone can take down wallpaper and re-paint. That’s not bad, just time-consuming. You can also learn a lot about relatively minor stuff from YouTube videos, like installing a new kitchen faucet. But are you going to do your entire kitchen renovation yourself? Are you going to demo, hang those cabinets, take the right accurate measurements to get the granite guys to cut you the right size counter top, and while you’re at it demo your current flooring and then install your new floors? Are you going to rip out and then install a brand new toilet in your half bath to replace the one the previous owners hadn’t touched in 30 years?? It’s not “lazy,” it’s just being stretched financially to where you can’t afford to make hire contractors to make big repairs right away.

I don't think you read my post - the house I'm referring to needs purely cosmetic changes. It's outdated in style, but the kitchen is updated and the systems are newish. The exterior is really nice. I really, truly think a lot of buyers just want "turnkey" and are unwilling to do work on their house - maybe PPs are right and they don't have the money, but we bought our first house in very outdated condition and spent a few years updating it to our liking. Nothing was wrong with it, it just wasn't to our taste. Our initial updates were just paint and light fixtures and it made a huge difference. I wish I knew these neighbors - I'd suggest they paint and stage and try again. Either their real estate agent sucks or they didn't listen to her. Our house is very similar, we snapped it up. We haven't had to make any initial cosmetic changes except painting one room that one of my kids wanted to be pink instead of gray and swapping out a light fixture.

I don't think you read most replies. Fronting an additional $25K is a stretch for most first time home buyer, especially given the rapid rise in mortgages in the last 2 years. Plus contractor costs are hugely unpredictable and the $25k could end up being 35-40k. Buyers are not biting because they have better options.

+1, I don’t understand why OP is so fixated on this. We moved to a bigger, nicer home 2 years ago and we did not want to take on any updating/refreshing because we we were coming from a starter house half the size and needed extra cash on hand to furnish the house to our liking. It’s not some kind of personal affront for buyers to want turnkey.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Millennials here are proving my point, y’all are lazy!!

Anyone can take down wallpaper and re-paint. That’s not bad, just time-consuming. You can also learn a lot about relatively minor stuff from YouTube videos, like installing a new kitchen faucet. But are you going to do your entire kitchen renovation yourself? Are you going to demo, hang those cabinets, take the right accurate measurements to get the granite guys to cut you the right size counter top, and while you’re at it demo your current flooring and then install your new floors? Are you going to rip out and then install a brand new toilet in your half bath to replace the one the previous owners hadn’t touched in 30 years?? It’s not “lazy,” it’s just being stretched financially to where you can’t afford to make hire contractors to make big repairs right away.

DP. You lost me at "entire kitchen renovation" and "half-bath" renovation. It might not be lazy to want to do this stuff, but absolutely none of it is necessary.

This is exactly the tradeoff OP is talking about.
* Millenial wants turnkey house, including cool new kitchen with Viking stove and renovated half-bath.
* Millenial complains that boomers either (a) aren't doing this for them, or (b) they're doing it but charging a lot to recoup their costs, and/or (c) bidding wars result from all the other millennials who want the Viking stove.

Newsflash: only millennials in a "turnkey house" bracket are going to be able to afford pp's renovated kitchen and half-bath. These higher-income millennials will happily pay the premium for the renovated kitchen and half-bath.

The millennials who aren't in the turnkey house bracket are either unwilling to consider a cheaper area where they can get a turnkey house, or they're on the fainting couch over the thought of having an outdated kitchen. How about you guys learn how to live with an outdated kitchen? And, for the half-bath, pick up a paintbrush and hire a plumber to put in the new toilet. It won't kill you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Houses in our area are selling like hotcakes. These are 1980-2000 built homes, most have been updated or at least cleaned up/staged to look as neutral as possible, and going off the market immediately since the spring. Our offer was super competitive (e.g. no contingencies offered with 12 hr deadline before open house) and accepted. The last house that sold was under similar circumstances (they haven't closed yet but our neighbors are friend with the sellers and loooove to talk). HOWEVER there is a house that has been on the market for four weeks, has had one price drop, and no one has bit. Why? Because the owners have done nothing to update it/make it appealing to millennials - it has granny furniture, granny colors (dark red accent wall, hunter green dining room, anyone?), brass fixtures, old carpet, you name it (the kitchen is actually pretty nice - white cabs, gray counters, stainless appliances). It's at a great price now, but no one wants to touch it because it would require maybe $25,000 worth of work to get up to date (really just paint and replace carpets and fixtures). I just don't get it - you can't have it both ways, folks? Can't complain there are no houses on the market, but then not buy a house that's a great deal!

That's 25k in cash and most people are very cash poor immediately after a home purchase

This is it. Most of us are already spending more than we want to just to get the house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Millennials here are proving my point, y’all are lazy!!

Anyone can take down wallpaper and re-paint. That’s not bad, just time-consuming. You can also learn a lot about relatively minor stuff from YouTube videos, like installing a new kitchen faucet. But are you going to do your entire kitchen renovation yourself? Are you going to demo, hang those cabinets, take the right accurate measurements to get the granite guys to cut you the right size counter top, and while you’re at it demo your current flooring and then install your new floors? Are you going to rip out and then install a brand new toilet in your half bath to replace the one the previous owners hadn’t touched in 30 years?? It’s not “lazy,” it’s just being stretched financially to where you can’t afford to make hire contractors to make big repairs right away.

DP. You lost me at "entire kitchen renovation" and "half-bath" renovation. It might not be lazy to want to do this stuff, but absolutely none of it is necessary.

This is exactly the tradeoff OP is talking about.
* Millenial wants turnkey house, including cool new kitchen with Viking stove and renovated half-bath.
* Millenial complains that boomers either (a) aren't doing this for them, or (b) they're doing it but charging a lot to recoup their costs, and/or (c) bidding wars result from all the other millennials who want the Viking stove.

Newsflash: only millennials in a "turnkey house" bracket are going to be able to afford pp's renovated kitchen and half-bath. These higher-income millennials will happily pay the premium for the renovated kitchen and half-bath.

The millennials who aren't in the turnkey house bracket are either unwilling to consider a cheaper area where they can get a turnkey house, or they're on the fainting couch over the thought of having an outdated kitchen. How about you guys learn how to live with an outdated kitchen? And, for the half-bath, pick up a paintbrush and hire a plumber to put in the new toilet. It won't kill you.

The reality:
Vast majority of Millennial home owners would love a turnkey lovely home, but most a making do with outdated kitchens and baths. Because that's what they can afford in their market.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Millennials here are proving my point, y’all are lazy!!

Anyone can take down wallpaper and re-paint. That’s not bad, just time-consuming. You can also learn a lot about relatively minor stuff from YouTube videos, like installing a new kitchen faucet. But are you going to do your entire kitchen renovation yourself? Are you going to demo, hang those cabinets, take the right accurate measurements to get the granite guys to cut you the right size counter top, and while you’re at it demo your current flooring and then install your new floors? Are you going to rip out and then install a brand new toilet in your half bath to replace the one the previous owners hadn’t touched in 30 years?? It’s not “lazy,” it’s just being stretched financially to where you can’t afford to make hire contractors to make big repairs right away.

+1. I am a millennial, we bought a house that needed absolutely everything last May.

Let me walk you through our timeline for just the kitchen -
Closed in May - husband and I went back to work after very generous parental leave with our first at this point so things got hairy for a few weeks
Ordered cabinets in early June
Ordered appliances in July
Appliances arrived in August, but oops, the wrong dishwasher got sent
Hardwood floors refinished in mid-August because of scheduling issues on his end
Correct appliances arrived in September
Cabinets showed up first week of October
GC came by mid October to throw the cabinets in - one was broken upon delivery
Ordered countertops mid October, installed early November
Had our second kid May of '23
Broken cabinet replacement showed up June of '23 (yes, 8.5 months later)
GC came back out in July to install the kickplates, cabinet pulls, and final cabinet

This is also with my dad being a GC so we were using his contacts - paying a fair price but at least the people showed up when they said they would. The cost of labor has gone up astronomically in the last few years. We blew the ballpark budget, even with being more Home Depot people than like, Restoration Hardware. And, we lived with my parents during this entire process and paid them a friends & family rate for living there, ha. Where are people living during a gut reno?

I cannot begrudge anyone for not wanting to take this on. That is just one project. We've also moved walls, reno'd one of the bathrooms, had to replace the boiler, upgrade the electric, re-insulated the house, replaced the roof, had chimney repairs, had to replace the front stairs, etc. This is before we did things we want to do, like fix the landscaping, get a new couch, and all the other crap you need to buy that comes with living in a new space.

With 2 kids, 2 "big jobs", and everything else that you need to do, like getting the car fixed it is a LOT. My husband is handy and spends a lot of time around the house, but we also now have 2 under 2 so it's like, what gives?

Anyone seriously arguing that millenials are lazy for not wanting your grandma's house is out to lunch.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Houses in our area are selling like hotcakes. These are 1980-2000 built homes, most have been updated or at least cleaned up/staged to look as neutral as possible, and going off the market immediately since the spring. Our offer was super competitive (e.g. no contingencies offered with 12 hr deadline before open house) and accepted. The last house that sold was under similar circumstances (they haven't closed yet but our neighbors are friend with the sellers and loooove to talk). HOWEVER there is a house that has been on the market for four weeks, has had one price drop, and no one has bit. Why? Because the owners have done nothing to update it/make it appealing to millennials - it has granny furniture, granny colors (dark red accent wall, hunter green dining room, anyone?), brass fixtures, old carpet, you name it (the kitchen is actually pretty nice - white cabs, gray counters, stainless appliances). It's at a great price now, but no one wants to touch it because it would require maybe $25,000 worth of work to get up to date (really just paint and replace carpets and fixtures). I just don't get it - you can't have it both ways, folks? Can't complain there are no houses on the market, but then not buy a house that's a great deal!

That's 25k in cash and most people are very cash poor immediately after a home purchase

This is it. Most of us are already spending more than we want to just to get the house.

Actually lots of millennials just add $25k to the mortgage. I know millennials who have done this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Millennials here are proving my point, y’all are lazy!!

Anyone can take down wallpaper and re-paint. That’s not bad, just time-consuming. You can also learn a lot about relatively minor stuff from YouTube videos, like installing a new kitchen faucet. But are you going to do your entire kitchen renovation yourself? Are you going to demo, hang those cabinets, take the right accurate measurements to get the granite guys to cut you the right size counter top, and while you’re at it demo your current flooring and then install your new floors? Are you going to rip out and then install a brand new toilet in your half bath to replace the one the previous owners hadn’t touched in 30 years?? It’s not “lazy,” it’s just being stretched financially to where you can’t afford to make hire contractors to make big repairs right away.

+1. I am a millennial, we bought a house that needed absolutely everything last May.

Let me walk you through our timeline for just the kitchen -
Closed in May - husband and I went back to work after very generous parental leave with our first at this point so things got hairy for a few weeks
Ordered cabinets in early June
Ordered appliances in July
Appliances arrived in August, but oops, the wrong dishwasher got sent
Hardwood floors refinished in mid-August because of scheduling issues on his end
Correct appliances arrived in September
Cabinets showed up first week of October
GC came by mid October to throw the cabinets in - one was broken upon delivery
Ordered countertops mid October, installed early November
Had our second kid May of '23
Broken cabinet replacement showed up June of '23 (yes, 8.5 months later)
GC came back out in July to install the kickplates, cabinet pulls, and final cabinet

This is also with my dad being a GC so we were using his contacts - paying a fair price but at least the people showed up when they said they would. The cost of labor has gone up astronomically in the last few years. We blew the ballpark budget, even with being more Home Depot people than like, Restoration Hardware. And, we lived with my parents during this entire process and paid them a friends & family rate for living there, ha. Where are people living during a gut reno?

I cannot begrudge anyone for not wanting to take this on. That is just one project. We've also moved walls, reno'd one of the bathrooms, had to replace the boiler, upgrade the electric, re-insulated the house, replaced the roof, had chimney repairs, had to replace the front stairs, etc. This is before we did things we want to do, like fix the landscaping, get a new couch, and all the other crap you need to buy that comes with living in a new space.

With 2 kids, 2 "big jobs", and everything else that you need to do, like getting the car fixed it is a LOT. My husband is handy and spends a lot of time around the house, but we also now have 2 under 2 so it's like, what gives?

Anyone seriously arguing that millenials are lazy for not wanting your grandma's house is out to lunch.

We're arguing that nobody needs a gut reno like yours, with new cabinets, new appliances, moving walls, and a bathroom reno right out of the gate, like you did. Nice for you that you swung hiring people to do this, and props for the humblebrag.

But the millennials who can't afford to do this--yeah, they should stop complaining about grandma's house. As long as grandma's house has good bones, they should learn to pick up a paintbrush and take the long view.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Millennials here are proving my point, y’all are lazy!!

Anyone can take down wallpaper and re-paint. That’s not bad, just time-consuming. You can also learn a lot about relatively minor stuff from YouTube videos, like installing a new kitchen faucet. But are you going to do your entire kitchen renovation yourself? Are you going to demo, hang those cabinets, take the right accurate measurements to get the granite guys to cut you the right size counter top, and while you’re at it demo your current flooring and then install your new floors? Are you going to rip out and then install a brand new toilet in your half bath to replace the one the previous owners hadn’t touched in 30 years?? It’s not “lazy,” it’s just being stretched financially to where you can’t afford to make hire contractors to make big repairs right away.

+1. I am a millennial, we bought a house that needed absolutely everything last May.

Let me walk you through our timeline for just the kitchen -
Closed in May - husband and I went back to work after very generous parental leave with our first at this point so things got hairy for a few weeks
Ordered cabinets in early June
Ordered appliances in July
Appliances arrived in August, but oops, the wrong dishwasher got sent
Hardwood floors refinished in mid-August because of scheduling issues on his end
Correct appliances arrived in September
Cabinets showed up first week of October
GC came by mid October to throw the cabinets in - one was broken upon delivery
Ordered countertops mid October, installed early November
Had our second kid May of '23
Broken cabinet replacement showed up June of '23 (yes, 8.5 months later)
GC came back out in July to install the kickplates, cabinet pulls, and final cabinet

This is also with my dad being a GC so we were using his contacts - paying a fair price but at least the people showed up when they said they would. The cost of labor has gone up astronomically in the last few years. We blew the ballpark budget, even with being more Home Depot people than like, Restoration Hardware. And, we lived with my parents during this entire process and paid them a friends & family rate for living there, ha. Where are people living during a gut reno?

I cannot begrudge anyone for not wanting to take this on. That is just one project. We've also moved walls, reno'd one of the bathrooms, had to replace the boiler, upgrade the electric, re-insulated the house, replaced the roof, had chimney repairs, had to replace the front stairs, etc. This is before we did things we want to do, like fix the landscaping, get a new couch, and all the other crap you need to buy that comes with living in a new space.

With 2 kids, 2 "big jobs", and everything else that you need to do, like getting the car fixed it is a LOT. My husband is handy and spends a lot of time around the house, but we also now have 2 under 2 so it's like, what gives?

Anyone seriously arguing that millenials are lazy for not wanting your grandma's house is out to lunch.

We're arguing that nobody needs a gut reno like yours, with new cabinets, new appliances, moving walls, and a bathroom reno right out of the gate, like you did. Nice for you that you swung hiring people to do this, and props for the humblebrag.

But the millennials who can't afford to do this--yeah, they should stop complaining about grandma's house. As long as grandma's house has good bones, they should learn to pick up a paintbrush and take the long view.

The house was falling apart. If I could show you the listing pictures without doxing myself, I would. The house needed most of the above outlined work to be habitable. Maybe not the wall moving, but yeah, everything else needed to make the house livable - and again, this is Home Depot grade stuff, not the La Cornue range. Are you expecting my husband to get his plumbing and electrical licenses so that we don't have to hire people?