Pursuing PhD @ 50+

[Anonymous]

I'm the PP who said everyone who does a PhD is miserable. I didn't mean to imply that it's pure misery throughout, or that there are no good outcomes - neither was the case for me personally. But it can be a long, uncertain, isolating process, through which you are paid at poverty levels even as you work incredibly hard. And for a lot of people with academic aspirations, it ends with disappointment because tenure-track faculty positions have shrunk drastically in the past few decades. I'm grateful for my PhD but most people I know who have one wish they'd appreciated the tradeoffs and considered other options instead.

Add to that for someone 50+, they will be even more isolated from their peer grad students, faculty will be unwilling to invest in them because it's highly unlikely that they'll become a meaningful player in the field, and there's almost no prospect of a better or even good job at the end of the process.

As someone who is in her 50s, I'd tell a contemporary who wanted to do this to find a different path to scratch that academic itch. Take classes, read books, go to lectures if you have the time and money to do that. But pursuing a PhD at this stage of life is really pointless.

[Anonymous]

I’m in my mid-40’s, have a PhD, left after graduating for a gov job and to start my family and I day dream all the time about going back for another in a new field. It was brutal, but not filled with the backstabbing, etc that’s described here. I have very fond memories of that time. (Physics). I mean, I’m not going to, but I wish it were a possibility.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m in my mid-40’s, have a PhD, left after graduating for a gov job and to start my family and I day dream all the time about going back for another in a new field. It was brutal, but not filled with the backstabbing, etc that’s described here. I have very fond memories of that time. (Physics). I mean, I’m not going to, but I wish it were a possibility.

As someone whose college senior is applying to PhD programs this fall, thank you and the other PP for the more positive accounts.

[Anonymous]

Be rich before you start or have outside funding of your retirement savings are not where they should be.

Remember educational loans can't be removed by bankruptcy. If something goes wrong, you don't want to be the ill 75 yo with student loan payments.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Be rich before you start or have outside funding of your retirement savings are not where they should be.

Remember educational loans can't be removed by bankruptcy. If something goes wrong, you don't want to be the ill 75 yo with student loan payments.

*private loans

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No one enjoys getting their PhD. No one. You will be very much the odd person out trying to do it in your 50s. My DH had a postdoc once where one of his cohort was a late-in-life PhDer. Started after a finance career and a marriage implosion. Nice guy, never got an academic job or published anything. Hard to see the point of so much academic drudgery if it doesn't lead to anything.

My kid who is a current PhD candidate has a very difference story to tell. He is exceedingly happy and fulfilled, loves his lab and work.

While it isn't for everyone, one person's experience does not describe all.

Wait until he tries to graduate. That's when the claws come out.

That's ridiculous. My son just received his PhD in a science at a flagship. His advisor and department were very supportive throughout his program. Didn't cost him a penny.

Might be because he's male. I don't think I know a single woman that didn't have an issue with their advisor and knew many that needed their advisor removed to graduate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m in my mid-40’s, have a PhD, left after graduating for a gov job and to start my family and I day dream all the time about going back for another in a new field. It was brutal, but not filled with the backstabbing, etc that’s described here. I have very fond memories of that time. (Physics). I mean, I’m not going to, but I wish it were a possibility.

For me, the backstabbing was a result of the funding cliff we had. If the economy ever crashes again, those kinds of behaviors will be back.

[Anonymous]

I went for psychology but never finished my dissertation because life/kids got in the way. It’s a huge regret. I am still close friends with my classmates. There was no backstabbing at all. These are weird comments. Decades later in my early 50s I’m thinking of going back because I want to work as a clinical psychologist. However I have to start the PhD all over. I’ve been home for 20 years with kids and can see working for 20 after graduating. I wouldn’t assume someone older is doing it for a hobby or has nothing to contribute. The big obstacle is getting academic references 20-25 years out of school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of these responses are looking at it from the student's perspective. But a PhD is a two-way street. Taking on a new student is a big commitment for a Professor, both in terms of funding and time. TBH, they may be reluctant to take on a student who is simply doing the work for personal reward.

This. They will be very reluctant to take on a student who will essentially be a dilettante.

Does anyone know of a 50+ PhD who has gotten a tenure-line position in academia? Institutions invest a lot of money in TL faculty, no incentive to invest in an older candidate who will be retirement age if they get through the ~6 year long tenure process. It makes sense that this could be different in industry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Most of these responses are looking at it from the student's perspective. But a PhD is a two-way street. Taking on a new student is a big commitment for a Professor, both in terms of funding and time. TBH, they may be reluctant to take on a student who is simply doing the work for personal reward.

This. They will be very reluctant to take on a student who will essentially be a dilettante.

Does anyone know of a 50+ PhD who has gotten a tenure-line position in academia? Institutions invest a lot of money in TL faculty, no incentive to invest in an older candidate who will be retirement age if they get through the ~6 year long tenure process. It makes sense that this could be different in industry.

I have known multiple people, mostly female, who got their first tenure track job in their 50s.

Remember, tenure is for life so schools view, rightly or wrongly, older candidates as a safer bet--they figure for sure they'll retire by 70, so that's a salary of 20 years, vs a possible 50 year commitment for a 30 year old asst prof.

There is another benefit, schools in undesirable locations have a lot of turn-over as younger faculty do not want to live in a podunk, whereas a 55 year old whose husband is retired and has golf as his main hobby, is unlikely to leave for greener pastures.

And this sounds terrible, but a 50 year old is unlikely to ask for multiple paternity/maternity leaves, so that's appealing to them, too.

Certain fields, like nursing, engineering, journalism, being old with real life job experience is a plus.

[Anonymous]

Sounds like a move to get out of the mid-life crisis rut.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Student loan payments on federal loans are income based, so you needn’t worry so much about the debt. Obviously consider your overall financial burden and whether you’ve got kids to support and for how long. But if it fits your situation, then why not?

This is your one life. There are plenty of worse ways to spend your time and money than pursuing intellectual growth. I’m 52 and I’d go back to school for a PhD in a heartbeat if I could afford to. I lament that I pursued a JD instead of a PhD way back when.

I’m guessing your question might be more about what the dynamic is DC area PhD programs for older students? I haven’t experienced it myself, but I would venture a guess that especially in the DC area there are plenty of midlife folks taking graduate level courses at the various universities.

This thinking and practice is at the root of the student debt crisis in this country. When income-based payments are low, interest accrued and total debt balloons. Student debt in retirement is not a good idea. As others have said, if the finances are not a burden, go for it!

[Anonymous]

I did not do this myself but have taught a couple of students at UMD who started a Ph.D. in the humanities after retirement. I can report they were loving the work and were great to have in class.

As others have said, I would NOT take on debt to do this, and even for younger students I would advise doing it because you want to spend this portion of your life doing this and not because you can count on a career coming out of it. Pick a program that is congenial and supportive. And only do it if you're funded or have the funds to do it on your own dime without compromising your retirement.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I went for psychology but never finished my dissertation because life/kids got in the way. It’s a huge regret. I am still close friends with my classmates. There was no backstabbing at all. These are weird comments. Decades later in my early 50s I’m thinking of going back because I want to work as a clinical psychologist. However I have to start the PhD all over. I’ve been home for 20 years with kids and can see working for 20 after graduating. I wouldn’t assume someone older is doing it for a hobby or has nothing to contribute. The big obstacle is getting academic references 20-25 years out of school.

People have shared stories of abusive Ph.D situation and you are discounting them and calling them "weird." You assume because you had a good experience, that must be the norm and there is something wrong with those who faced abuse even though it's almost a cliche to hear about taking advantage of Ph.D. students. and treat them poorly. Perhaps it is best you don't go back and get that degree and practice. You are minimizing and discounting people's stories and showing no empathy. Those are not qualities people look for in a clinical psychologist.

[Anonymous]

Why? It is only to pursue a vanity title to do this in one's 50s, not a career moving endeavor. Somehow you will have to find a way to give this legs for the next however many years after, but it doesn't translate to any really big career changes or money.