New US news rankings: liberal arts colleges

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The three major service academies (Navy, Air Force, West Point) all moved into the top 10. Grinnell rose to 11, just behind Carleton at 9, further erasing any doubt that they’re true peers. The Ohio school that so many on DCUM drool over - Kenyon - dropped to 39, showing that it is not.

Washington & Lee dropped into the 20s, well below Richmond, while Oberlin sank into the 50s.

You sound like you really think these things are meaningful. It's funny.

[Anonymous]

Some of the data being relied on is pretty outdated. For example, “First generation graduation rates (2.5% in National Universities, new) is the same calculation as Pell graduation rates, but based on graduation rates of federal loan recipients who were first in their families to attend college, entering fall 2011 through fall 2013.”

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:US News is kind of a joke these days. It’s no longer a respected publication and just makes money off compiling various lists. I take their rankings with a grain of salt.

+1 The problem is that kids and their parents in competitive high schools (W schools in Montgomery County) follow these rankings as the gospel when choosing schools. It's very damaging. Get rid of these rankings, US News specifically.

I don’t think this is true. In the highly competitive NJ HS my kids attend/attended (one has graduated and the other will soon), the kids have a sense of where the schools cluster but don’t know if Penn is ahead of Northwestern or if Bucknell is ahead of Lehigh. They are also sensitive to other factors such as location and size and everyone applies to Rutgers.

The instinct to censor information because one doesn’t like how they believe other people are using it is epidemic … and saddening. If you don’t think rankings are useful, don’t use them. Others might think they are or just like following them. There’s no need to control what others can read.

[Anonymous]

If LAC means no grad programs….

W&L law?
Wesleyan grad programs
Bucknell has several MS grad programs

Etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:US News is kind of a joke these days. It’s no longer a respected publication and just makes money off compiling various lists. I take their rankings with a grain of salt.

+1 The problem is that kids and their parents in competitive high schools (W schools in Montgomery County) follow these rankings as the gospel when choosing schools. It's very damaging. Get rid of these rankings, US News specifically.

I don’t think this is true. In the highly competitive NJ HS my kids attend/attended (one has graduated and the other will soon), the kids have a sense of where the schools cluster but don’t know if Penn is ahead of Northwestern or if Bucknell is ahead of Lehigh. They are also sensitive to other factors such as location and size and everyone applies to Rutgers.

The instinct to censor information because one doesn’t like how they believe other people are using it is epidemic … and saddening. If you don’t think rankings are useful, don’t use them. Others might think they are or just like following them. There’s no need to control what others can read.

PP was talking about Montgomery County, Maryland. This is a Washington DC area website. If you’re from New Jersey, we don’t care what you think.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If LAC means no grad programs….

W&L law?
Wesleyan grad programs
Bucknell has several MS grad programs

Etc.

I think if they’re a small percentage of the student body or just a small number, it’s still considered LAC. For instance Williams only has 50 grad students out of 2100 students and Washington & Lee has 400 out of 2200 students. Caltech, a national university, is 1400 graduate students and 1000 undergraduates.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If LAC means no grad programs….

W&L law?
Wesleyan grad programs
Bucknell has several MS grad programs

Etc.

It's not that there are no grad programs, it's that LACs emphasize their undergraduate programs. They may in fact also have grad programs.

[Anonymous]

I think Oberlin and Kenyon both suffer from being in Ohio. The kind of kid who wants to go to Oberlin doesn’t want to be in MAGA land. That’s why they’re trying to attract students with so much merit. If Oberlin was in a blue state, it wouldn’t be handing out money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think Oberlin and Kenyon both suffer from being in Ohio. The kind of kid who wants to go to Oberlin doesn’t want to be in MAGA land. That’s why they’re trying to attract students with so much merit. If Oberlin was in a blue state, it wouldn’t be handing out money.

Kenyon just suffers because of the outcome weighting that is pegged to this Pell Grant stuff. Peer assessment rating is generally higher than the schools that moved above it. Kenyon test scores also higher than a lot of schools coming above it. Kenyon ranked 15th in undergraduate teaching. Kenyon has difficulty competing on a lot of these newly emphasized DEI metrics, though, and being in rural Ohio is possibly a factor.

Oberlin has an array of problems, mostly do with the campus culture and extreme wokeness.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Oberlin and Kenyon both suffer from being in Ohio. The kind of kid who wants to go to Oberlin doesn’t want to be in MAGA land. That’s why they’re trying to attract students with so much merit. If Oberlin was in a blue state, it wouldn’t be handing out money.

Kenyon just suffers because of the outcome weighting that is pegged to this Pell Grant stuff. Peer assessment rating is generally higher than the schools that moved above it. Kenyon test scores also higher than a lot of schools coming above it. Kenyon ranked 15th in undergraduate teaching. Kenyon has difficulty competing on a lot of these newly emphasized DEI metrics, though, and being in rural Ohio is possibly a factor.

Oberlin has an array of problems, mostly do with the campus culture and extreme wokeness.

"Wokeness" is not an issue for the kind of kid who likes Oberlin. Being in Ohio is.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Carleton is way too woke. My DW hated it

I bet the educated (aka woke) community didn’t think much of him either.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:US News is kind of a joke these days. It’s no longer a respected publication and just makes money off compiling various lists. I take their rankings with a grain of salt.

+1 The problem is that kids and their parents in competitive high schools (W schools in Montgomery County) follow these rankings as the gospel when choosing schools. It's very damaging. Get rid of these rankings, US News specifically.

I don’t think this is true. In the highly competitive NJ HS my kids attend/attended (one has graduated and the other will soon), the kids have a sense of where the schools cluster but don’t know if Penn is ahead of Northwestern or if Bucknell is ahead of Lehigh. They are also sensitive to other factors such as location and size and everyone applies to Rutgers.

The instinct to censor information because one doesn’t like how they believe other people are using it is epidemic … and saddening. If you don’t think rankings are useful, don’t use them. Others might think they are or just like following them. There’s no need to control what others can read.

PP was talking about Montgomery County, Maryland. This is a Washington DC area website. If you’re from New Jersey, we don’t care what you think.

I guess we’ve found the spokesperson for the entire DC area. I just figured the kids in your area were in many respects similar to those up here academically and demographically. I guess Montgomery County is unique and there are and can be no analogous situations anywhere other than in the DC area. I’ve learned a lot from reading the thoughts of the people on this site despite not living in this area - unfortunately too often it’s been about the close-mindedness and hostility of many posters. Oh well. Live and learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:US News is kind of a joke these days. It’s no longer a respected publication and just makes money off compiling various lists. I take their rankings with a grain of salt.

+1 The problem is that kids and their parents in competitive high schools (W schools in Montgomery County) follow these rankings as the gospel when choosing schools. It's very damaging. Get rid of these rankings, US News specifically.

You know you don’t have to read it or comment on it, right? How is it “damaging”?

Opportunities often come down to who you know. These rankings almost ensure that the rich W school kids who are well connected will keep going to Williams, Kenyon or Colgate for example. The kids will enjoy the experience and send their kids there too. It’s how the world works.

You can get a good education elsewhere but reputation matters. It’s always nice to have a prestigious school on your resume.

I am aware that my kid has an advantage going to a top high school and he won’t apply for aid. Should I send him to a no name school and pay the same or save a few bucks on tuition?

Also I don’t want my kid going to some school that is not promoting critical thinking and diversity. Liberal arts schools provide a great education and can be life-changing for those poor kids who were stuck with narrow-minded Trump supporting parents.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:US News is kind of a joke these days. It’s no longer a respected publication and just makes money off compiling various lists. I take their rankings with a grain of salt.

+1 The problem is that kids and their parents in competitive high schools (W schools in Montgomery County) follow these rankings as the gospel when choosing schools. It's very damaging. Get rid of these rankings, US News specifically.

You know you don’t have to read it or comment on it, right? How is it “damaging”?

Opportunities often come down to who you know. These rankings almost ensure that the rich W school kids who are well connected will keep going to Williams, Kenyon or Colgate for example. The kids will enjoy the experience and send their kids there too. It’s how the world works.

You can get a good education elsewhere but reputation matters. It’s always nice to have a prestigious school on your resume.

I am aware that my kid has an advantage going to a top high school and he won’t apply for aid. Should I send him to a no name school and pay the same or save a few bucks on tuition?

Also I don’t want my kid going to some school that is not promoting critical thinking and diversity. Liberal arts schools provide a great education and can be life-changing for those poor kids who were stuck with narrow-minded Trump supporting parents.

Not the poster to whom you directed your mini-tirade.

Maybe you have a good point or maybe you don't; I can't tell because I am blinded by your hostility and anger--which indicates that your thoughts are based on something other than intelligence.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think Oberlin and Kenyon both suffer from being in Ohio. The kind of kid who wants to go to Oberlin doesn’t want to be in MAGA land. That’s why they’re trying to attract students with so much merit. If Oberlin was in a blue state, it wouldn’t be handing out money.

Kenyon just suffers because of the outcome weighting that is pegged to this Pell Grant stuff. Peer assessment rating is generally higher than the schools that moved above it. Kenyon test scores also higher than a lot of schools coming above it. Kenyon ranked 15th in undergraduate teaching. Kenyon has difficulty competing on a lot of these newly emphasized DEI metrics, though, and being in rural Ohio is possibly a factor.

Oberlin has an array of problems, mostly do with the campus culture and extreme wokeness.

I actually think that Trinity is underrated because of this. It's in a bad neighborhood, although at the same time kids want city schools and it's in a city. There aren't that many LACs in cities: Tufts, Emory, Tulane, Macalaster, but not many others. It's also not as woke as Oberlin by far so for people who want a little more balance it's a good choice. Not sure why it's not higher up on the ranking. It has good academics, a nice campus, and is sporty and it's not in the boonies like Kenyon.