Give me constructive advice on how to help my middle schooler in English

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to first ask yourself what constitutes a challenging novel and Why? You clearly have a problem with what they would choose to read, Why? And then what is the purpose of the reading? Are you trying to get them consume information, learn about a specific topic, or read for enjoyment.

Also reading the Lighting Thief and Hunger Games in third or fourth grade doesn’t mean actual literary analysis was done of the novels at that time.

I'd like them to analyze and understand complex plots. I'd like their vocabulary to improve. I'd like their own writing to improve. I'd like for them to think.

Sounds like you want a tutor.

NP — you realize that’s what kids are supposed to learn in school, right?

DP - I was about to suggest a tutor. I agree that middle schools should be teaching this, but MCPS absolutely is not outside of the humanities magnets. We were waitlisted for CES and now again for the MS magnets and have given up on expecting MCPS to meet our kids’ needs through the “regular” curricula. We do additional coursework and tutoring for enrichment. It’s still cheaper than private.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to first ask yourself what constitutes a challenging novel and Why? You clearly have a problem with what they would choose to read, Why? And then what is the purpose of the reading? Are you trying to get them consume information, learn about a specific topic, or read for enjoyment.

Also reading the Lighting Thief and Hunger Games in third or fourth grade doesn’t mean actual literary analysis was done of the novels at that time.

I'd like them to analyze and understand complex plots. I'd like their vocabulary to improve. I'd like their own writing to improve. I'd like for them to think.

Sounds like you want a tutor.

NP — you realize that’s what kids are supposed to learn in school, right?

. You realize this is MS and not HS. Also these are preteens/teens and it’s summer. Just because they would rather do other things right now doesn’t mean they are incapable of analyzing a text. Nor does it mean they won’t consume more books and text as adults.

OP is saying her kids aren’t learning these skills in school, not that they simply aren’t interested in reading.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to first ask yourself what constitutes a challenging novel and Why? You clearly have a problem with what they would choose to read, Why? And then what is the purpose of the reading? Are you trying to get them consume information, learn about a specific topic, or read for enjoyment.

Also reading the Lighting Thief and Hunger Games in third or fourth grade doesn’t mean actual literary analysis was done of the novels at that time.

I'd like them to analyze and understand complex plots. I'd like their vocabulary to improve. I'd like their own writing to improve. I'd like for them to think.

Sounds like you want a tutor.

NP — you realize that’s what kids are supposed to learn in school, right?

DP - I was about to suggest a tutor. I agree that middle schools should be teaching this, but MCPS absolutely is not outside of the humanities magnets. We were waitlisted for CES and now again for the MS magnets and have given up on expecting MCPS to meet our kids’ needs through the “regular” curricula. We do additional coursework and tutoring for enrichment. It’s still cheaper than private.

But it’s not a replacement for a better school.

[Anonymous]

As far as local resources, St Alban's used to have short summer classes that focused on English.

One thing I did with my kids was choose a book that we would read and discuss aloud at home. They complained - but it served its purpose.

If you want to strengthen vocab, you may want to search for British authors who generally use more challenging vocab.

https://www.stjohnhoughtonilkeston.srscmat.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/sites/19/2022/02/reading-list-year-8-v2.pdf

http://www.themarlboroughscienceacademy.co.uk/_site/data/files/students/Year-8-Reading-List.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to first ask yourself what constitutes a challenging novel and Why? You clearly have a problem with what they would choose to read, Why? And then what is the purpose of the reading? Are you trying to get them consume information, learn about a specific topic, or read for enjoyment.

Also reading the Lighting Thief and Hunger Games in third or fourth grade doesn’t mean actual literary analysis was done of the novels at that time.

I'd like them to analyze and understand complex plots. I'd like their vocabulary to improve. I'd like their own writing to improve. I'd like for them to think.

Sounds like you want a tutor.

NP — you realize that’s what kids are supposed to learn in school, right?

. You realize this is MS and not HS. Also these are preteens/teens and it’s summer. Just because they would rather do other things right now doesn’t mean they are incapable of analyzing a text. Nor does it mean they won’t consume more books and text as adults.

This is OP. I would have no issues with them reading pop fiction in the summer of during the school year the schools did their job and set reasonable standards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to first ask yourself what constitutes a challenging novel and Why? You clearly have a problem with what they would choose to read, Why? And then what is the purpose of the reading? Are you trying to get them consume information, learn about a specific topic, or read for enjoyment.

Also reading the Lighting Thief and Hunger Games in third or fourth grade doesn’t mean actual literary analysis was done of the novels at that time.

I'd like them to analyze and understand complex plots. I'd like their vocabulary to improve. I'd like their own writing to improve. I'd like for them to think.

Giving them a book to read is not going to grow them in these areas. Yes, their vocabulary will improve. They will absorb more complex, interesting writing. But being able to produce it is another thing. For analysis and understanding, you'll need someone to guide them through the text. You'll also need someone to point out what constitutes good writing and why. It would also be helpful to be able to discuss the text with peers. They'll have to consider other peoples viewpoints as well as be able to point to specific evidence to support their thoughts.

well exactly! what would you suggest I do? I can't afford to put them into private school for one class (honestly we are happy with the rest of the MS curriculum, just not English). FWIW, we are in a low FARMS area where there are plenty of good students. The issue is that the school has decided to only offer 'Advanced English' to everyone - but it's clearly not advanced because not everyone can handle 'advanced' work and therefore they need to lower the standards for everyone.

And yes, we know tons of parents who are supplementing with private tutors to improve their reading/writing skills. I don't have a problem with the $$ - it's the time. My kids play sports and are also into theatre - they are going to balk at having to do tutoring for a few afternoons a week when it would be much more efficient to read/learn in school itself.

Will they read plays?

This is OP and actually that's a great suggestion. My older one is a theatre lover and absolutely would. Thanks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If you have the money, enroll them in the Aplus Learning Center GT program. This program initially was started to serve GT students who did not get placement in the magnet programs because mcps decided that they had a "cohort" in the home school. The English curriculum has been put together by a very respected and beloved (early retirement) Humanities teacher who was in the ms magnet program.

https://www.apluslearninginc.com/gt-program

Thanks you PP this is amazing!!! Looks like they have a "book study" class which is basically what I am looking for. They also have math/writing courses but my kids are actually good on that front.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have the money, enroll them in the Aplus Learning Center GT program. This program initially was started to serve GT students who did not get placement in the magnet programs because mcps decided that they had a "cohort" in the home school. The English curriculum has been put together by a very respected and beloved (early retirement) Humanities teacher who was in the ms magnet program.

https://www.apluslearninginc.com/gt-program

Thanks you PP this is amazing!!! Looks like they have a "book study" class which is basically what I am looking for. They also have math/writing courses but my kids are actually good on that front.

DP - it’s too bad that the GT programming requires you to do both math and English. My kid is already in AIM, but I would love to have him continue with the William & Mary programming for ELA that he did in ES over his middle school years. The reading/writing “enrichment” courses do not look as rigorous.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to first ask yourself what constitutes a challenging novel and Why? You clearly have a problem with what they would choose to read, Why? And then what is the purpose of the reading? Are you trying to get them consume information, learn about a specific topic, or read for enjoyment.

Also reading the Lighting Thief and Hunger Games in third or fourth grade doesn’t mean actual literary analysis was done of the novels at that time.

I'd like them to analyze and understand complex plots. I'd like their vocabulary to improve. I'd like their own writing to improve. I'd like for them to think.

Giving them a book to read is not going to grow them in these areas. Yes, their vocabulary will improve. They will absorb more complex, interesting writing. But being able to produce it is another thing. For analysis and understanding, you'll need someone to guide them through the text. You'll also need someone to point out what constitutes good writing and why. It would also be helpful to be able to discuss the text with peers. They'll have to consider other peoples viewpoints as well as be able to point to specific evidence to support their thoughts.

well exactly! what would you suggest I do? I can't afford to put them into private school for one class (honestly we are happy with the rest of the MS curriculum, just not English). FWIW, we are in a low FARMS area where there are plenty of good students. The issue is that the school has decided to only offer 'Advanced English' to everyone - but it's clearly not advanced because not everyone can handle 'advanced' work and therefore they need to lower the standards for everyone.

And yes, we know tons of parents who are supplementing with private tutors to improve their reading/writing skills. I don't have a problem with the $$ - it's the time. My kids play sports and are also into theatre - they are going to balk at having to do tutoring for a few afternoons a week when it would be much more efficient to read/learn in school itself.

Will they read plays?

This is OP and actually that's a great suggestion. My older one is a theatre lover and absolutely would. Thanks.

I'm the PP who made my ES kids rewrite some of their papers.

I've noticed lately how my entering sophmore DD's vocabulary and speech has gotten better and more mature. I asked her what made her expand her vocabulary and speak better, and she said that she's been writing plays with her friend, and stories on her own. They are theater geeks. She also likes murder mysteries, but doesn't like reading, so she listens to a lot of audio books.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to first ask yourself what constitutes a challenging novel and Why? You clearly have a problem with what they would choose to read, Why? And then what is the purpose of the reading? Are you trying to get them consume information, learn about a specific topic, or read for enjoyment.

Also reading the Lighting Thief and Hunger Games in third or fourth grade doesn’t mean actual literary analysis was done of the novels at that time.

I'd like them to analyze and understand complex plots. I'd like their vocabulary to improve. I'd like their own writing to improve. I'd like for them to think.

Giving them a book to read is not going to grow them in these areas. Yes, their vocabulary will improve. They will absorb more complex, interesting writing. But being able to produce it is another thing. For analysis and understanding, you'll need someone to guide them through the text. You'll also need someone to point out what constitutes good writing and why. It would also be helpful to be able to discuss the text with peers. They'll have to consider other peoples viewpoints as well as be able to point to specific evidence to support their thoughts.

well exactly! what would you suggest I do? I can't afford to put them into private school for one class (honestly we are happy with the rest of the MS curriculum, just not English). FWIW, we are in a low FARMS area where there are plenty of good students. The issue is that the school has decided to only offer 'Advanced English' to everyone - but it's clearly not advanced because not everyone can handle 'advanced' work and therefore they need to lower the standards for everyone.

And yes, we know tons of parents who are supplementing with private tutors to improve their reading/writing skills. I don't have a problem with the $$ - it's the time. My kids play sports and are also into theatre - they are going to balk at having to do tutoring for a few afternoons a week when it would be much more efficient to read/learn in school itself.

Will they read plays?

This is OP and actually that's a great suggestion. My older one is a theatre lover and absolutely would. Thanks.

Check out The Crucible, The Lottery, and The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas. The first is a long play while the other two are short stories. They're all on similar themes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have the money, enroll them in the Aplus Learning Center GT program. This program initially was started to serve GT students who did not get placement in the magnet programs because mcps decided that they had a "cohort" in the home school. The English curriculum has been put together by a very respected and beloved (early retirement) Humanities teacher who was in the ms magnet program.

https://www.apluslearninginc.com/gt-program

Thanks you PP this is amazing!!! Looks like they have a "book study" class which is basically what I am looking for. They also have math/writing courses but my kids are actually good on that front.

DP - it’s too bad that the GT programming requires you to do both math and English. My kid is already in AIM, but I would love to have him continue with the William & Mary programming for ELA that he did in ES over his middle school years. The reading/writing “enrichment” courses do not look as rigorous.

Do you mean https://education.wm.edu/centers/cfge/precollegiate/sep/index.php or https://k12.kendallhunt.com/program/william-mary-gifted-language-arts-curriculum?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Have you tried CTY? They would be in class with other high performing peers which could get them out of the rut. My poor kid was in the dumbed down curriculum and became catatonic by the end of the school year, producing mediocre work. Being around kids who are at their same level might snap them out of that.

CTY is overpriced. If you're willing to go online and have gifted kids, there are better options like AoPS, NUMATS, Davidson, Athena's Academy, Astra Nova, Cresco Nova, Synthesis, Northwestern GLL, Eclipse Academy, Online G3, Stanford OHS, Lukeion, and CLRC. https://www.davidsongifted.org/gifted-blog/online-gifted-learning-options/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If you have the money, enroll them in the Aplus Learning Center GT program. This program initially was started to serve GT students who did not get placement in the magnet programs because mcps decided that they had a "cohort" in the home school. The English curriculum has been put together by a very respected and beloved (early retirement) Humanities teacher who was in the ms magnet program.

https://www.apluslearninginc.com/gt-program

Thanks you PP this is amazing!!! Looks like they have a "book study" class which is basically what I am looking for. They also have math/writing courses but my kids are actually good on that front.

DP - it’s too bad that the GT programming requires you to do both math and English. My kid is already in AIM, but I would love to have him continue with the William & Mary programming for ELA that he did in ES over his middle school years. The reading/writing “enrichment” courses do not look as rigorous.

Do you mean https://education.wm.edu/centers/cfge/precollegiate/sep/index.php or https://k12.kendallhunt.com/program/william-mary-gifted-language-arts-curriculum?

My kid did the William & Mary curriculum at our MCPS: https://k12.kendallhunt.com/program/william-mary-gifted-language-arts-curriculum?

It is part of CES and ELC, but our school didn't offer ELC and still offered William & Mary to kids who needed the enrichment. It was the only part of the curriculum that challenged my kid.

We did do some of the virtual Saturday school classes throgh Wiliam & Mary during the pandemic, and they were ok but not great.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to first ask yourself what constitutes a challenging novel and Why? You clearly have a problem with what they would choose to read, Why? And then what is the purpose of the reading? Are you trying to get them consume information, learn about a specific topic, or read for enjoyment.

Also reading the Lighting Thief and Hunger Games in third or fourth grade doesn’t mean actual literary analysis was done of the novels at that time.

I'd like them to analyze and understand complex plots. I'd like their vocabulary to improve. I'd like their own writing to improve. I'd like for them to think.

My kid hates to read and always has. But he likes current events. So I chose selective news articles for him to read and discuss with me. They are relatively short. But some papers, like Reuters, NYT, Wall Street Journal, write at a fairly high lexile level.

http://cdn.lexile.com/m/cms_page_media/135/Text%20Complexity%20of%20English%20International%20Newspapers_1.pdf

https://ttac.gmu.edu/archive/telegram/article-1

And if they still let you, keep reading to them. Choose some harder texts. Get some audio books. These expose kids to higher-level vocabulary and sentence structure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You have to first ask yourself what constitutes a challenging novel and Why? You clearly have a problem with what they would choose to read, Why? And then what is the purpose of the reading? Are you trying to get them consume information, learn about a specific topic, or read for enjoyment.

Also reading the Lighting Thief and Hunger Games in third or fourth grade doesn’t mean actual literary analysis was done of the novels at that time.

I'd like them to analyze and understand complex plots. I'd like their vocabulary to improve. I'd like their own writing to improve. I'd like for them to think.

Giving them a book to read is not going to grow them in these areas. Yes, their vocabulary will improve. They will absorb more complex, interesting writing. But being able to produce it is another thing. For analysis and understanding, you'll need someone to guide them through the text. You'll also need someone to point out what constitutes good writing and why. It would also be helpful to be able to discuss the text with peers. They'll have to consider other peoples viewpoints as well as be able to point to specific evidence to support their thoughts.

well exactly! what would you suggest I do? I can't afford to put them into private school for one class (honestly we are happy with the rest of the MS curriculum, just not English). FWIW, we are in a low FARMS area where there are plenty of good students. The issue is that the school has decided to only offer 'Advanced English' to everyone - but it's clearly not advanced because not everyone can handle 'advanced' work and therefore they need to lower the standards for everyone.

And yes, we know tons of parents who are supplementing with private tutors to improve their reading/writing skills. I don't have a problem with the $$ - it's the time. My kids play sports and are also into theatre - they are going to balk at having to do tutoring for a few afternoons a week when it would be much more efficient to read/learn in school itself.

Will they read plays?

This is OP and actually that's a great suggestion. My older one is a theatre lover and absolutely would. Thanks.

Check out The Crucible, The Lottery, and The Ones Who Walk Away from Omelas. The first is a long play while the other two are short stories. They're all on similar themes.

Ironically I read the first 2 in mcps honors English and you are right - those are good choices. Not sure what the hell happened in the last 25 years. -OP