University Choices in Europe/UK for Liberal Arts
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Anonymous
Four years of German is not going to cut if for German Universities. https://www.lmu.de/en/study/degree-students/prerequisites/german-proficiency/index.html |
but I was curious if anyone has first-hand info.
Anonymous
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Here you go OP, a link to all the English language taught programs in Germany. Looks like there are 350 bachelors degrees to choose from
https://www.mastersportal.com/articles/2991/best-english-taught-universities-in-germany-in-2023.html |
Anonymous
Yes, bare in mind though: Bard Berlin is an Bard's (an American college's) branch campus, with only 300 students, so very small. CEU does have some prestige, but the undergraduate programmes are less than 5 years old—very new, and I think also with very small undergraduate populations. Of course the endowment and support from George Soros, and CEU's recent, but exceptional history as a postgraduate institution are worth noting. CEU is all based in Vienna now, right? I'd research these two options very carefully. |
Anonymous
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St Andrews has great great liberal arts.
Stellar departments across subjects, but especially in topics like philosophy, classics, history, art history, anthropology, languages and the like. Students can combine two subjects for a degree in years 3-4, but can take three subjects, and mix and match different subjects, in their years 1-2. Very international spot too—DC wouldn't feel out of place at all, while still having the international experience. |
Anonymous
These options are both in English, but you can also take German classes (and would be living in a German speaking country). They are American accredited universities. Bard Berlin allows easy transfer to the main campus/or study there for a year, including a semester in NYC. It is very cheap by American standards; CEU is super cheap. CEU is expanding their undergrad population, as far as I know. Both Bard (Berlin and other campuses) and CEU are heavily funded and linked into a growing and expanding network of international universities; they aren’t going anywhere. German universities are soulless places at the undergrad level, with lots of lectures, huge classes, and rote memorization. The English of the professors and students is not up to native standard and you are getting a second class degree in the eyes of Germans (who have a certain attitude if you catch my drift). Meanwhile, the proper degrees in German are really only for native speakers. |
Anonymous
| All Germans learn English in school. When you visit Germany most of them speak English better than us Brits. Those who do not speak English are usually in very much lower-level jobs (no higher ed). |
Anonymous
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For the UK: UCL, Kings or Queen Mary in London; Edinburgh and St. Andrew’s are also great
Germany: Humboldt or Freie in Berlin Netherlands: University of Amsterdam, Utrecht or Leiden Switzerland: University of Zurich |
Anonymous
Not our experience at all. The Nordics and the Dutch have MUCH broader and extensive English fluency than Germans. |
Anonymous
That is also true. The two things are not mutually exclusive. |
Anonymous
| Is she too cool for US schools? Too special? |
Anonymous
| If you want a quality education at a reasonable price most kids are better off going to a UK university. |
Anonymous
Like anywhere in the world, not all institutions of higher education are created equally. Russell Group universities in the UK have the highest standing after Oxford & Cambridge. There's a slew of colleges not worth attending of course, as well, where you barely need a 2.8 GPA (and no SATs or APs) to attend. Places like that will indeed save you tuition money but what you're buying is often next to worthless. Same as in every country, there are BS colleges. |
Anonymous
Internstional students can get a Fachgebundene Hochschulreife with AP scores |
Anonymous
How much does it cost? When I looked at Cambridge, it seemed like the cost would be about $70k for US students, which isn't exactly a bargain. But it was confusing because you have to add it all up, hoping you're catching it all, and convert it to dollars. https://www.undergraduate.study.cam.ac.uk/international-students/international-fees-and-costs Also, how do kids do study abroad at one of these institutions? My son has a friend who went to Cambridge over the summer. |
Anonymous
I’d prefer the English-language European studies program at Leuven over a Dutch university, because the Belgian housing market works better: https://onderwijsaanbod.kuleuven.be/opleidingen/e/CQ_56359369.htm#activetab=diploma_omschrijving If you have friends or relatives who can help with housing in the Netherlands, consider the “university college” (U.S. style liberal arts programs) at places like the University of Amsterdam or Leiden University. I think EU schools make sense for bright, hard-working, sober kids who have the stats to consider applying to Top 25 schools; have great executive function skills; have good attendance and turn everything in on time; and are open to having an unusual college experience and an unusual career. UK schools might work better for students who want a little more American-like college. You can probably hold the total cost under $40,000 per year, or even under $30,000, in the EU and under $55,000 in the UK, but, if your daughter isn’t an EU national, she might have a hard time working, and she might have to look hard to find schools that can take 529 plan money or U.S. student loans. |