Resource that will explain to grandparents how college admissions has changed in 30 years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’ve tried with my mom and she gets it…and then starts fussing again. She has off the charts anxiety. She thinks she’s being reassuring and will say “well, I know UMD-CP will be just fine.” And I’ll say again, “Mom, he can’t get into CP. But maybe UMBC, or Salisbury if he wants a state school.” And she looks all devastated and says “Really? You told me he was doing okay in school.” I want to pull my hair out.

She also always tells me when one of her friends…or her friends of friends…went to my dad’s prep school or college alma mater. Sometimes I push back on the snobbishness, and sometimes I just change the subject.

I mean I'm a millennial and I have trouble understanding it all, so I don't blame boomers. Top students when I was in school got into Tulane, Duke, UVA, Georgia Tech, UNC, NYU. The Valedictorian likely went Ivy league if they could afford it. I'm surprised when neighbors hope their smart kids can get into JMU, George Mason, University of Mary Washington (and sometimes aren't getting in anywhere). It's crazy and you can't blame grandparents for not getting it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For a moment of reflection: ours have no living grandparents to (not) care about such things.

That said.....this is a good start.

Anonymous wrote:Give them "Who Gets In and Why."

My current battle with DH is over how to pay for it. (And, yes, I've tried to get him to read "The Price You Pay"). DH thinks our good student/child will get "in" and get lots of "scholarship" money because "back when he [did it]" (in the 90s), kids with our kid's current stats....did. Those days are gone.

He also has no clue what even in-state, all-in costs are. It's going to be a long Fall.

Same. DH and I went to University of Florida (where I see instate is still cheap at $6800). You basically worked an internship in the summer and you had enough money to live on the rest of the year, you got free tuition from bright futures. UVA at 36k is crazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:For a moment of reflection: ours have no living grandparents to (not) care about such things.

That said.....this is a good start.

Anonymous wrote:Give them "Who Gets In and Why."

My current battle with DH is over how to pay for it. (And, yes, I've tried to get him to read "The Price You Pay"). DH thinks our good student/child will get "in" and get lots of "scholarship" money because "back when he [did it]" (in the 90s), kids with our kid's current stats....did. Those days are gone.

He also has no clue what even in-state, all-in costs are. It's going to be a long Fall.

It seems like this piece, at least, is easy to show him? Public Us at least are pretty transparent with the cost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a moment of reflection: ours have no living grandparents to (not) care about such things.

That said.....this is a good start.

Anonymous wrote:Give them "Who Gets In and Why."

My current battle with DH is over how to pay for it. (And, yes, I've tried to get him to read "The Price You Pay"). DH thinks our good student/child will get "in" and get lots of "scholarship" money because "back when he [did it]" (in the 90s), kids with our kid's current stats....did. Those days are gone.

He also has no clue what even in-state, all-in costs are. It's going to be a long Fall.

It seems like this piece, at least, is easy to show him? Public Us at least are pretty transparent with the cost.

There’s a thread from earlier this spring called “Penn State v Yale.” The family could afford Yale. But Penn State (OOS) is like half the price, and when dad finally sat down and looked at the choice he couldn’t stomach the cost differential and balked big time. That’s my nightmare now. They knew what Yale cost. They knew they could afford it. Against all odds, the kid got in. And yet when it came time to write the check. …

There’s seeing what it costs and there’s actually understanding what it costs and those are two different things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a moment of reflection: ours have no living grandparents to (not) care about such things.

That said.....this is a good start.

Anonymous wrote:Give them "Who Gets In and Why."

My current battle with DH is over how to pay for it. (And, yes, I've tried to get him to read "The Price You Pay"). DH thinks our good student/child will get "in" and get lots of "scholarship" money because "back when he [did it]" (in the 90s), kids with our kid's current stats....did. Those days are gone.

He also has no clue what even in-state, all-in costs are. It's going to be a long Fall.

It seems like this piece, at least, is easy to show him? Public Us at least are pretty transparent with the cost.

I'm the PP with no living parents and the slow-to-the-game DH. And I apologize in advance for derailing an otherwise thoughtful thread.

While most State Us do give pricing info, we haven't had a lot of success at finding many straight-up, merit-based monies for Virginia institutions a la University of Alabama, University of Kentucky, or even WVU. We'll just have to wait to see what comes back (if even accepted) in their Financial Aid Award Letter. Can't find the exact quote in Lieber's book but it was something like -- what other high-dollar purchase/expenditure do "we" make where we don't know going in what the final cost will be? At least some other (non-VA) State Us make some effort to be transparent.

It's still a huge racket. It shouldn't be this hard.

[Anonymous]

My parents knew none of their own kids were getting into Ivies. So, the expectations weren't that high. They are beyond delighted to see their grandson on TV every so often in a Big Ten pep band when basketball season rolls around.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a moment of reflection: ours have no living grandparents to (not) care about such things.

That said.....this is a good start.

Anonymous wrote:Give them "Who Gets In and Why."

My current battle with DH is over how to pay for it. (And, yes, I've tried to get him to read "The Price You Pay"). DH thinks our good student/child will get "in" and get lots of "scholarship" money because "back when he [did it]" (in the 90s), kids with our kid's current stats....did. Those days are gone.

He also has no clue what even in-state, all-in costs are. It's going to be a long Fall.

It seems like this piece, at least, is easy to show him? Public Us at least are pretty transparent with the cost.

There’s a thread from earlier this spring called “Penn State v Yale.” The family could afford Yale. But Penn State (OOS) is like half the price, and when dad finally sat down and looked at the choice he couldn’t stomach the cost differential and balked big time. That’s my nightmare now. They knew what Yale cost. They knew they could afford it. Against all odds, the kid got in. And yet when it came time to write the check. …

There’s seeing what it costs and there’s actually understanding what it costs and those are two different things.

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a moment of reflection: ours have no living grandparents to (not) care about such things.

That said.....this is a good start.

Anonymous wrote:Give them "Who Gets In and Why."

My current battle with DH is over how to pay for it. (And, yes, I've tried to get him to read "The Price You Pay"). DH thinks our good student/child will get "in" and get lots of "scholarship" money because "back when he [did it]" (in the 90s), kids with our kid's current stats....did. Those days are gone.

He also has no clue what even in-state, all-in costs are. It's going to be a long Fall.

It seems like this piece, at least, is easy to show him? Public Us at least are pretty transparent with the cost.

I'm the PP with no living parents and the slow-to-the-game DH. And I apologize in advance for derailing an otherwise thoughtful thread.

While most State Us do give pricing info, we haven't had a lot of success at finding many straight-up, merit-based monies for Virginia institutions a la University of Alabama, University of Kentucky, or even WVU. We'll just have to wait to see what comes back (if even accepted) in their Financial Aid Award Letter. Can't find the exact quote in Lieber's book but it was something like -- what other high-dollar purchase/expenditure do "we" make where we don't know going in what the final cost will be? At least some other (non-VA) State Us make some effort to be transparent.

It's still a huge racket. It shouldn't be this hard.

That's because Virginia colleges, for the most part, don't offer straight-up merit-based scholarships. States that offer that do so because they are trying to attract students to their state. Virginia doesn't need to, at least not at the most competitive schools. If you don't qualify for need-based aid, assume you are paying list price as an in-state student at UVA, W&M, VT.

FWIW, the only standardized merit awards I've found in VA are at UMW ($10k off for 4.0+ students) and CNU (a couple different awards).
https://cnu.edu/admission/freshman/scholarships/
https://www.umw.edu/admissions/in-state-merit-scholarship/

[Anonymous]

Why is this even a topic of discussion with the grandparents? Just deflect and move on. It’s not your job to convince them that the college application landscape has changed.

Grandma: Oh I’m sure Larlo is a sure-thing to get into Yale. He’s so smart!
You: Yes, he’s looking at a variety of schools.
Grandpa: We’ll, is he applying there? He should.
You: We’ll see. How’s Aunt Sally doing? Did she have her surgery?

And so on. Deflect and move on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a moment of reflection: ours have no living grandparents to (not) care about such things.

That said.....this is a good start.

Anonymous wrote:Give them "Who Gets In and Why."

My current battle with DH is over how to pay for it. (And, yes, I've tried to get him to read "The Price You Pay"). DH thinks our good student/child will get "in" and get lots of "scholarship" money because "back when he [did it]" (in the 90s), kids with our kid's current stats....did. Those days are gone.

He also has no clue what even in-state, all-in costs are. It's going to be a long Fall.

It seems like this piece, at least, is easy to show him? Public Us at least are pretty transparent with the cost.

There’s a thread from earlier this spring called “Penn State v Yale.” The family could afford Yale. But Penn State (OOS) is like half the price, and when dad finally sat down and looked at the choice he couldn’t stomach the cost differential and balked big time. That’s my nightmare now. They knew what Yale cost. They knew they could afford it. Against all odds, the kid got in. And yet when it came time to write the check. …

There’s seeing what it costs and there’s actually understanding what it costs and those are two different things.

And that is absolutely cruel to do to a kid. You must tell them upfront the max you are willing to pay (and ideally it should be the same for any school---none of this I'll pay $90K for Harvard, but not for OOS PSU---give a number and make it non-conditional).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a moment of reflection: ours have no living grandparents to (not) care about such things.

That said.....this is a good start.

Anonymous wrote:Give them "Who Gets In and Why."

My current battle with DH is over how to pay for it. (And, yes, I've tried to get him to read "The Price You Pay"). DH thinks our good student/child will get "in" and get lots of "scholarship" money because "back when he [did it]" (in the 90s), kids with our kid's current stats....did. Those days are gone.

He also has no clue what even in-state, all-in costs are. It's going to be a long Fall.

Same. DH and I went to University of Florida (where I see instate is still cheap at $6800). You basically worked an internship in the summer and you had enough money to live on the rest of the year, you got free tuition from bright futures. UVA at 36k is crazy.

UVA business/engineering is 50k in state.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If they're anything like my parents, your words will just go in at one ear, and out the other. They'll nod while your words cross the empty space from ear to ear, but then they'll go right back to thinking whatever they were thinking before... because value systems from when they were younger are just more tenacious than anything anyone says now. And not just about college!

So true, so true

[Anonymous]

Why are you discussing college applications in so much detail with ANYONE? Just change the subject.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:If they can read a graph, have them look at this blog post (the entire site is great, but this particular piece has stuck with me): https://www.highereddatastories.com/2022/10/yes-your-yield-rate-is-still-falling.html

You can enter any school to see specific data about that school. They're all pretty wild, but if you really want to make an impression, try Northeastern: in 2001, Northeastern had less than 15k applicants and a 70% acceptance rate. In 2021, there were more than 75k applicants and the admit rate was 18.4%. And of course, all the top 50 or 100 schools have become even more competitive in the past 2 years since this data was released.

This example is probably a good one - even if NEU is gaming the system as some folks argue - as many older folks think of Northeastern as the commuter, coop school of yesteryear. When my kids were in MS, a college friend was talking about her HS DC's college tours. I couldn't imagine NEU given what the DC was interested in studying, but then I looked it up and began to realize how much the admissions world has changed.

It's not unusual to read on here two groups of folks - people who have DCs who are now in their late 20s and up with no recognition of how admissions has changed ("Buffy got into X, Y, and Z in 2010. Your DC must be dumb") and another group of parents with young DCs also with no idea how admissions has shifted. They got into T20s and they just don't get that the world is different from when they applied. Folks from both these categories will make these sweeping comments, then, when pressed, reveal they really know nothing about college admissions from ~2015ish on, especially the last 3 years.

OP, GL!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For a moment of reflection: ours have no living grandparents to (not) care about such things.

That said.....this is a good start.

Anonymous wrote:Give them "Who Gets In and Why."

My current battle with DH is over how to pay for it. (And, yes, I've tried to get him to read "The Price You Pay"). DH thinks our good student/child will get "in" and get lots of "scholarship" money because "back when he [did it]" (in the 90s), kids with our kid's current stats....did. Those days are gone.

He also has no clue what even in-state, all-in costs are. It's going to be a long Fall.

It seems like this piece, at least, is easy to show him? Public Us at least are pretty transparent with the cost.

There’s a thread from earlier this spring called “Penn State v Yale.” The family could afford Yale. But Penn State (OOS) is like half the price, and when dad finally sat down and looked at the choice he couldn’t stomach the cost differential and balked big time. That’s my nightmare now. They knew what Yale cost. They knew they could afford it. Against all odds, the kid got in. And yet when it came time to write the check. …

There’s seeing what it costs and there’s actually understanding what it costs and those are two different things.

And that is absolutely cruel to do to a kid. You must tell them upfront the max you are willing to pay (and ideally it should be the same for any school---none of this I'll pay $90K for Harvard, but not for OOS PSU---give a number and make it non-conditional).

So agree. A friend's family kinda did this a few cycles ago. They are big higher ed snobs and didn't really give a budget to kid. They are full pay but barely with younger kids. Don't even think the kid applied to a single public school. Kid had a choice of schools, but only got merit at the schools that traditionally offer and none at the most select schools. The kid, who internalized the parents' snobbery, now is taking out loans when it might not have been that way if they had had a more frank conversation about budget.

Also dislike when I hear parents, who can afford full pay, say "we would never pay full cost for X, so good that they got merit," then turn around and say they would pay full price for T20s, top SLACs alma maters, etc.