Williamsburg Pre-Algebra, 931?

[Anonymous]

Wow you folks are obsessed. Summer hasn’t even started yet

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow you folks are obsessed. Summer hasn’t even started yet

I was one of the people who asked last year – it’s annoying that there are no *announced* guidelines or policies. I asked at our elementary last year and got a totally BS answer that I knew was incorrect (they’ll evaluate kids at the beginning of the school year and decide where to place them in the first month or so of school), and when I tried to clarify, was shut down with “most kids don’t benefit from accelerated math and it’s highly inappropriate to parent place.”

Just announce the process/guidelines and that will cut down on a significant amount of speculation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Wow you folks are obsessed. Summer hasn’t even started yet

We are currently on spring break

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow you folks are obsessed. Summer hasn’t even started yet

I was one of the people who asked last year – it’s annoying that there are no *announced* guidelines or policies. I asked at our elementary last year and got a totally BS answer that I knew was incorrect (they’ll evaluate kids at the beginning of the school year and decide where to place them in the first month or so of school), and when I tried to clarify, was shut down with “most kids don’t benefit from accelerated math and it’s highly inappropriate to parent place.”

Just announce the process/guidelines and that will cut down on a significant amount of speculation.

100% this. Although the website says parents will be notified in late June/early July. They do evaluate kids at the beginning of the school year though.


I bet they don't publish anything because it is not a fixed line. I also bet the scores for placement vary depending on the school. Especially if pp is correct and higher scores are based on outside tutoring/help. S. Arlington/lower income schools are less likely to have that help and there is still a pre-algebra class at these schools. I know for a fact that at our school we had no kids score as high as some of the numbers being through around here, but our MS still has a pre-algebra class. Especially when you add in the Spanish schools which may have a different space due to language (especially when kids are more behind these past couple years due to covid).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow you folks are obsessed. Summer hasn’t even started yet

I was one of the people who asked last year – it’s annoying that there are no *announced* guidelines or policies. I asked at our elementary last year and got a totally BS answer that I knew was incorrect (they’ll evaluate kids at the beginning of the school year and decide where to place them in the first month or so of school), and when I tried to clarify, was shut down with “most kids don’t benefit from accelerated math and it’s highly inappropriate to parent place.”

Just announce the process/guidelines and that will cut down on a significant amount of speculation.

100% this. Although the website says parents will be notified in late June/early July. They do evaluate kids at the beginning of the school year though.


I bet they don't publish anything because it is not a fixed line. I also bet the scores for placement vary depending on the school. Especially if pp is correct and higher scores are based on outside tutoring/help. S. Arlington/lower income schools are less likely to have that help and there is still a pre-algebra class at these schools. I know for a fact that at our school we had no kids score as high as some of the numbers being through around here, but our MS still has a pre-algebra class. Especially when you add in the Spanish schools which may have a different space due to language (especially when kids are more behind these past couple years due to covid).

sorry meant to say different pace

[Anonymous]

They only have one pre algebra class per set of teachers. Do if your kid is in the top 50-60 of incoming 6th graders on scores, then they will probably be placed in ore algebra.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They only have one pre algebra class per set of teachers. Do if your kid is in the top 50-60 of incoming 6th graders on scores, then they will probably be placed in ore algebra.

Right, which would seemingly mean there is no county wide score as it would vary by school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow you folks are obsessed. Summer hasn’t even started yet

I was one of the people who asked last year – it’s annoying that there are no *announced* guidelines or policies. I asked at our elementary last year and got a totally BS answer that I knew was incorrect (they’ll evaluate kids at the beginning of the school year and decide where to place them in the first month or so of school), and when I tried to clarify, was shut down with “most kids don’t benefit from accelerated math and it’s highly inappropriate to parent place.”

Just announce the process/guidelines and that will cut down on a significant amount of speculation.

100% this. Although the website says parents will be notified in late June/early July. They do evaluate kids at the beginning of the school year though.


I bet they don't publish anything because it is not a fixed line. I also bet the scores for placement vary depending on the school. Especially if pp is correct and higher scores are based on outside tutoring/help. S. Arlington/lower income schools are less likely to have that help and there is still a pre-algebra class at these schools. I know for a fact that at our school we had no kids score as high as some of the numbers being through around here, but our MS still has a pre-algebra class. Especially when you add in the Spanish schools which may have a different space due to language (especially when kids are more behind these past couple years due to covid).

That makes sense. There may be some kids who can score highly on the test but not meet other readiness markers like attendance or study skills/work ethic. Automatically placing them would be a disservice

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow you folks are obsessed. Summer hasn’t even started yet

I was one of the people who asked last year – it’s annoying that there are no *announced* guidelines or policies. I asked at our elementary last year and got a totally BS answer that I knew was incorrect (they’ll evaluate kids at the beginning of the school year and decide where to place them in the first month or so of school), and when I tried to clarify, was shut down with “most kids don’t benefit from accelerated math and it’s highly inappropriate to parent place.”

Just announce the process/guidelines and that will cut down on a significant amount of speculation.

100% this. Although the website says parents will be notified in late June/early July. They do evaluate kids at the beginning of the school year though.


I bet they don't publish anything because it is not a fixed line. I also bet the scores for placement vary depending on the school. Especially if pp is correct and higher scores are based on outside tutoring/help. S. Arlington/lower income schools are less likely to have that help and there is still a pre-algebra class at these schools. I know for a fact that at our school we had no kids score as high as some of the numbers being through around here, but our MS still has a pre-algebra class. Especially when you add in the Spanish schools which may have a different space due to language (especially when kids are more behind these past couple years due to covid).

That makes sense. There may be some kids who can score highly on the test but not meet other readiness markers like attendance or study skills/work ethic. Automatically placing them would be a disservice

That might apply to some kids but in general, if a kid is scoring above the SOL/MI threshold for acceleration, it's unlikely they have issues with attendance. Scoring high on a test of knowledge (not aptitude) requires a kid to have worked with the material consistently.
A better approach is follow a PP's advice and do what FCPS does. Offer kids more challenging math material in ES so that all kids have the opportunity to accelerate in school. Then more kids would be able to meet the thresholds. Failing to offer more challenging material is ES will lead families that are able to seek enrichment outside of school, which will lead to widening gaps in the number of kids meeting accelerated math thresholds according to the SES level of the MS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow you folks are obsessed. Summer hasn’t even started yet

I was one of the people who asked last year – it’s annoying that there are no *announced* guidelines or policies. I asked at our elementary last year and got a totally BS answer that I knew was incorrect (they’ll evaluate kids at the beginning of the school year and decide where to place them in the first month or so of school), and when I tried to clarify, was shut down with “most kids don’t benefit from accelerated math and it’s highly inappropriate to parent place.”

Just announce the process/guidelines and that will cut down on a significant amount of speculation.

100% this. Although the website says parents will be notified in late June/early July. They do evaluate kids at the beginning of the school year though.


I bet they don't publish anything because it is not a fixed line. I also bet the scores for placement vary depending on the school. Especially if pp is correct and higher scores are based on outside tutoring/help. S. Arlington/lower income schools are less likely to have that help and there is still a pre-algebra class at these schools. I know for a fact that at our school we had no kids score as high as some of the numbers being through around here, but our MS still has a pre-algebra class. Especially when you add in the Spanish schools which may have a different space due to language (especially when kids are more behind these past couple years due to covid).

That makes sense. There may be some kids who can score highly on the test but not meet other readiness markers like attendance or study skills/work ethic. Automatically placing them would be a disservice

That might apply to some kids but in general, if a kid is scoring above the SOL/MI threshold for acceleration, it's unlikely they have issues with attendance. Scoring high on a test of knowledge (not aptitude) requires a kid to have worked with the material consistently.
A better approach is follow a PP's advice and do what FCPS does. Offer kids more challenging math material in ES so that all kids have the opportunity to accelerate in school. Then more kids would be able to meet the thresholds. Failing to offer more challenging material is ES will lead families that are able to seek enrichment outside of school, which will lead to widening gaps in the number of kids meeting accelerated math thresholds according to the SES level of the MS.

Our schools (one SA, one option) both provided opportunities for enrichment/acceleration.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow you folks are obsessed. Summer hasn’t even started yet

I was one of the people who asked last year – it’s annoying that there are no *announced* guidelines or policies. I asked at our elementary last year and got a totally BS answer that I knew was incorrect (they’ll evaluate kids at the beginning of the school year and decide where to place them in the first month or so of school), and when I tried to clarify, was shut down with “most kids don’t benefit from accelerated math and it’s highly inappropriate to parent place.”

Just announce the process/guidelines and that will cut down on a significant amount of speculation.

100% this. Although the website says parents will be notified in late June/early July. They do evaluate kids at the beginning of the school year though.


I bet they don't publish anything because it is not a fixed line. I also bet the scores for placement vary depending on the school. Especially if pp is correct and higher scores are based on outside tutoring/help. S. Arlington/lower income schools are less likely to have that help and there is still a pre-algebra class at these schools. I know for a fact that at our school we had no kids score as high as some of the numbers being through around here, but our MS still has a pre-algebra class. Especially when you add in the Spanish schools which may have a different space due to language (especially when kids are more behind these past couple years due to covid).

That makes sense. There may be some kids who can score highly on the test but not meet other readiness markers like attendance or study skills/work ethic. Automatically placing them would be a disservice

That might apply to some kids but in general, if a kid is scoring above the SOL/MI threshold for acceleration, it's unlikely they have issues with attendance. Scoring high on a test of knowledge (not aptitude) requires a kid to have worked with the material consistently.
A better approach is follow a PP's advice and do what FCPS does. Offer kids more challenging math material in ES so that all kids have the opportunity to accelerate in school. Then more kids would be able to meet the thresholds. Failing to offer more challenging material is ES will lead families that are able to seek enrichment outside of school, which will lead to widening gaps in the number of kids meeting accelerated math thresholds according to the SES level of the MS.

Our schools (one SA, one option) both provided opportunities for enrichment/acceleration.

That's great. But in order to prepare for accelerated MS math, the enrichment need to be structured toward a certain end goal. FCPS structures the advanced math curriculum so that by the end of 5th grade, students have accelerated to cover all content through 6th grade. Ad-hoc enrichment within a class is good but 1) sometimes enrichment may focus on grade level content, not accelerated content and 2) even when accelerated content is offered in one class, it may not be formalized enough across years to cover all the topics needed to prepare kids well for accelerated MS math.

[Anonymous]

Ugh. Is APS turning into another FCPS with nutter parents? Maybe adding more acceleration options in MS was a bad idea.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow you folks are obsessed. Summer hasn’t even started yet

I was one of the people who asked last year – it’s annoying that there are no *announced* guidelines or policies. I asked at our elementary last year and got a totally BS answer that I knew was incorrect (they’ll evaluate kids at the beginning of the school year and decide where to place them in the first month or so of school), and when I tried to clarify, was shut down with “most kids don’t benefit from accelerated math and it’s highly inappropriate to parent place.”

Just announce the process/guidelines and that will cut down on a significant amount of speculation.

100% this. Although the website says parents will be notified in late June/early July. They do evaluate kids at the beginning of the school year though.


I bet they don't publish anything because it is not a fixed line. I also bet the scores for placement vary depending on the school. Especially if pp is correct and higher scores are based on outside tutoring/help. S. Arlington/lower income schools are less likely to have that help and there is still a pre-algebra class at these schools. I know for a fact that at our school we had no kids score as high as some of the numbers being through around here, but our MS still has a pre-algebra class. Especially when you add in the Spanish schools which may have a different space due to language (especially when kids are more behind these past couple years due to covid).

That makes sense. There may be some kids who can score highly on the test but not meet other readiness markers like attendance or study skills/work ethic. Automatically placing them would be a disservice

That might apply to some kids but in general, if a kid is scoring above the SOL/MI threshold for acceleration, it's unlikely they have issues with attendance. Scoring high on a test of knowledge (not aptitude) requires a kid to have worked with the material consistently.
A better approach is follow a PP's advice and do what FCPS does. Offer kids more challenging math material in ES so that all kids have the opportunity to accelerate in school. Then more kids would be able to meet the thresholds. Failing to offer more challenging material is ES will lead families that are able to seek enrichment outside of school, which will lead to widening gaps in the number of kids meeting accelerated math thresholds according to the SES level of the MS.

Our schools (one SA, one option) both provided opportunities for enrichment/acceleration.

Enrichment is not acceleration. Our SA ES was very clear that enrichment is fine but nothing above grade level was allowed. They can only go deeper, not faster/higher. Kids in a school with that approach who aren’t learning on their own or from a parent/tutor/outside vendor outside of school hours are NOT going to meet the score threshold. The economic/ethnic makeup of the accelerated class at our MS bears this out. APS is doing equity wrong and it pisses me off. It’s widening gaps, not closing them!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow you folks are obsessed. Summer hasn’t even started yet

I was one of the people who asked last year – it’s annoying that there are no *announced* guidelines or policies. I asked at our elementary last year and got a totally BS answer that I knew was incorrect (they’ll evaluate kids at the beginning of the school year and decide where to place them in the first month or so of school), and when I tried to clarify, was shut down with “most kids don’t benefit from accelerated math and it’s highly inappropriate to parent place.”

Just announce the process/guidelines and that will cut down on a significant amount of speculation.

100% this. Although the website says parents will be notified in late June/early July. They do evaluate kids at the beginning of the school year though.


I bet they don't publish anything because it is not a fixed line. I also bet the scores for placement vary depending on the school. Especially if pp is correct and higher scores are based on outside tutoring/help. S. Arlington/lower income schools are less likely to have that help and there is still a pre-algebra class at these schools. I know for a fact that at our school we had no kids score as high as some of the numbers being through around here, but our MS still has a pre-algebra class. Especially when you add in the Spanish schools which may have a different space due to language (especially when kids are more behind these past couple years due to covid).

That makes sense. There may be some kids who can score highly on the test but not meet other readiness markers like attendance or study skills/work ethic. Automatically placing them would be a disservice

That might apply to some kids but in general, if a kid is scoring above the SOL/MI threshold for acceleration, it's unlikely they have issues with attendance. Scoring high on a test of knowledge (not aptitude) requires a kid to have worked with the material consistently.
A better approach is follow a PP's advice and do what FCPS does. Offer kids more challenging math material in ES so that all kids have the opportunity to accelerate in school. Then more kids would be able to meet the thresholds. Failing to offer more challenging material is ES will lead families that are able to seek enrichment outside of school, which will lead to widening gaps in the number of kids meeting accelerated math thresholds according to the SES level of the MS.

Our schools (one SA, one option) both provided opportunities for enrichment/acceleration.

Enrichment is not acceleration. Our SA ES was very clear that enrichment is fine but nothing above grade level was allowed. They can only go deeper, not faster/higher. Kids in a school with that approach who aren’t learning on their own or from a parent/tutor/outside vendor outside of school hours are NOT going to meet the score threshold. The economic/ethnic makeup of the accelerated class at our MS bears this out. APS is doing equity wrong and it pisses me off. It’s widening gaps, not closing them!

I am one of the previous PPs and agree completely. I am kicking around the idea of showing up to the school board with this argument next year. For my 2e child who thrives with math, enrichment does Jack shit and acceleration is exactly what they need. I accelerate at home - and that child thrives with respect to confidence. The school is being lazy by hiding behind “enrichment”. The enrichment is a complete waste of time.

Feel free to come to board meetings with me…I keep debating it with myself. But this - holding kids back in the name of equity - is simply wrong.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow you folks are obsessed. Summer hasn’t even started yet

I was one of the people who asked last year – it’s annoying that there are no *announced* guidelines or policies. I asked at our elementary last year and got a totally BS answer that I knew was incorrect (they’ll evaluate kids at the beginning of the school year and decide where to place them in the first month or so of school), and when I tried to clarify, was shut down with “most kids don’t benefit from accelerated math and it’s highly inappropriate to parent place.”

Just announce the process/guidelines and that will cut down on a significant amount of speculation.

100% this. Although the website says parents will be notified in late June/early July. They do evaluate kids at the beginning of the school year though.


I bet they don't publish anything because it is not a fixed line. I also bet the scores for placement vary depending on the school. Especially if pp is correct and higher scores are based on outside tutoring/help. S. Arlington/lower income schools are less likely to have that help and there is still a pre-algebra class at these schools. I know for a fact that at our school we had no kids score as high as some of the numbers being through around here, but our MS still has a pre-algebra class. Especially when you add in the Spanish schools which may have a different space due to language (especially when kids are more behind these past couple years due to covid).

That makes sense. There may be some kids who can score highly on the test but not meet other readiness markers like attendance or study skills/work ethic. Automatically placing them would be a disservice

That might apply to some kids but in general, if a kid is scoring above the SOL/MI threshold for acceleration, it's unlikely they have issues with attendance. Scoring high on a test of knowledge (not aptitude) requires a kid to have worked with the material consistently.
A better approach is follow a PP's advice and do what FCPS does. Offer kids more challenging math material in ES so that all kids have the opportunity to accelerate in school. Then more kids would be able to meet the thresholds. Failing to offer more challenging material is ES will lead families that are able to seek enrichment outside of school, which will lead to widening gaps in the number of kids meeting accelerated math thresholds according to the SES level of the MS.

Our schools (one SA, one option) both provided opportunities for enrichment/acceleration.

Enrichment is not acceleration. Our SA ES was very clear that enrichment is fine but nothing above grade level was allowed. They can only go deeper, not faster/higher. Kids in a school with that approach who aren’t learning on their own or from a parent/tutor/outside vendor outside of school hours are NOT going to meet the score threshold. The economic/ethnic makeup of the accelerated class at our MS bears this out. APS is doing equity wrong and it pisses me off. It’s widening gaps, not closing them!

I am one of the previous PPs and agree completely. I am kicking around the idea of showing up to the school board with this argument next year. For my 2e child who thrives with math, enrichment does Jack shit and acceleration is exactly what they need. I accelerate at home - and that child thrives with respect to confidence. The school is being lazy by hiding behind “enrichment”. The enrichment is a complete waste of time.

Feel free to come to board meetings with me…I keep debating it with myself. But this - holding kids back in the name of equity - is simply wrong.

Yuk, the "deeper but not higher" myth raises its ugly head again.

I hope that those perpetrating it are not in a position to determine our children's math education - but to the extent that they are, they should remember that they will be fought every step of the way. (Recall VMPI and the political shifts to which it led.)

"Grade level" math is fundamentally incompatible with engaging mathematically talented children. To pick one of many examples: in VA, grade level standards do not introduce simple variables until 5th grade. No x, no y, no z. Good luck going "deeper" without variables. Actually, good luck even teaching your children the way you were taught in 2nd or 3rd grade 30 years ago when variables weren't taboo. Or, take another example: negative numbers - they're reserved for 5th graders also - mathematicians can only laugh at the idea of "going deeper" without them. Yet, we have to discuss with elementary school teachers why it's ok for our 3rd grader to be fluent in them.

In actuality, there's no notion of "going deeper but not higher." Advanced children will discover the need for, and inquire about concepts that are 2-4 years ahead of what the school establishment considers "grade level." It is the duty of a teacher to respect this fact and support and teach those students no matter their actual grade or age. It is our responsibility as citizens to fight ideologues who (sometimes in the name of so-called "equity") want to hold our children back so that they conform to their notions.