Roughly 25% of MCPS students are chronically absent, and absenteeism response plan delayed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:(a) If a student fails to attend school without excuse on 10 or more days or parts of days within a six-month period in the same school year, a school district shall within 10 school days of the student's 10th absencerefer the student to a truancy court for truant conduct under Section 65.003(a), Family Code.

^^^
TX truancy laws

If your kid gets covid or a couple bad illnesses, you’re screwed.

Presumably absences for Covid wouldn’t be “without excuse” tho

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:(a) If a student fails to attend school without excuse on 10 or more days or parts of days within a six-month period in the same school year, a school district shall within 10 school days of the student's 10th absencerefer the student to a truancy court for truant conduct under Section 65.003(a), Family Code.

^^^
TX truancy laws

If your kid gets covid or a couple bad illnesses, you’re screwed.

Presumably absences for Covid wouldn’t be “without excuse” tho

You’d be surprised.

Are you schlepping to the doctor for a legit note?

[Anonymous]

They highlight Kennedy. The demographics skew low-income minorities—including newly arrived Latino young men who come to the US without parents to live/work. Plus a high number of black young men who simply don’t want to be in school. That school is surrounded by apartments and other rentals.

Mcps policy should not be driven by anomalies.

Rice used to talk about creating more non-traditional school programs for blue collar trades, etc. Try that.

Plus, the county has poured millions into gang prevention, etc.

[Anonymous]

How do you help the people?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:How do you help the people?

Which people?

The truant kids at Kennedy? The article says 70% are Latino. The article doesn’t say how many are relatively new arrivals. It doesn’t explain that the cultural norm in their home country isn’t education-particularly for boys. The goal is manual labor.

Square peg, round hole.

[Anonymous]

With the immigrant population, I wonder if part of it might be parents who don’t understand it’s important to call/email to excuse an absence for illness (or don’t want to because they don’t speak English and/or are afraid of contact with official people). Some are also probably kids who actually do need to work on some days when work is available to help support their families. Clearly this isn’t all of it but it may increase the numbers somewhat. The individual teachers probably could say which kids are trying but have illness or family obligations versus those that are just blowing off the class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have bones to pick with MCPS, but absenteism is not it. It's very hard to get students into school who do not want to be there, because if you enforce punitive measures, all it does is push them further away, and you're left with dropouts who hold up stores in broad daylight and deal drugs.

However, MCPS and all other schools in the nation should put pressure on state legislatures to force them to discipline students who are violent, verbally and physically (with special plans for those with disabilities). Regular students cannot learn in disruptive environments, and teachers an staff currently have no power to punish students for assaulting them, or other students.

Likewise, MCPS has had sexual and other assaults in many of its schools, even elementary schools, and it has been demonstrated that in certain instances it did not comply with standards of reporting to police. I am thinking about the Damascus rape case specifically, but I'm sure there are others.

If your child reports an assault at school, call 911 immediately. Do not wait for the school to cover it up.

I disagree. Absenteeism plays a role in a lot of the disfunction going on in schools right now.

When teens are allowed to be absent and roaming the streets, that's how they are enabled to commit crimes and link up with bad influences and associates like drug dealers or gang members.

Furthermore, there's no hope in closing the achievement gap if you can't get the kids to show up to be exposed to or engage with the content.

Not to mention state law obliges MCPS to do everything it can to ensure those 18 and under are in school, as dictated by the letter of the law.

I 100% agree that disruptive kids should not be in the same learning environment as those who want to learn, but the answer isn't to ignore those who are intentionally skipping school. The answer to me is that we need to reinstate the alternative schools for those with behavioral problems, which still compels them to be in some sort of school environment, but doesn't allow them to disrupt things.

Law enforcement is there to provide structure and accountability when citizens get out of line. We shouldn't shy away from that.

I mean, you can lead a horse to water… But if they are skipping school and their parents know full well what they’re doing then you can’t make them learn. It’s time to realize that not everyone is going to college (or even necessarily graduating high school).

I don’t think we should be graduating kids that are truant.

+1

HS Teacher here. At the root, we have lost what it means to earn a HS diploma. The state stopped enforcing truancy laws after a case where a petite mom asked a judge how exactly she was supposed to force her 6ft, 200 lb son to go to school. MCPS got rid of automatic failure due to too many unexcused absences (rightly so because some parents just wrote excuses while others wouldn’t). We have grading policies that are so generous that kids only need to turn in a couple of assignments to pass.

The state needs to redefine requirements to earn credit for a course to include a minimum amount of attendance (e.g. 90%), excused or not. For students with chronic absences (for whatever reason) offer an alternative “credit by examination” or just credit by completing an online course.

Also, part of the problem was the change in state law to require attendance until 18. Kids can’t drop out at 16 anymore. But what this did was put a huge burden on schools- teachers, counselors, and admin constantly chasing kids who don’t want to be in school. Being allowed to attend in-person school should be a privilege. If by age 16 a student can’t manage attending school regularly, then enroll them in an online program of study or an apprenticeship. The amount of resources devoted to truant students is staggering and is at a scale where it really is a detriment to the education of everyone else.

+1

Hi school diploma of somebody who’s putting zero effort, is chronically absent, never in school, gets 50s just by being enrolled, has the same value of a straight A, top of his class student at the best Montgomery county school. They both graduated and they both got the same diploma. That’s something to think about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have bones to pick with MCPS, but absenteism is not it. It's very hard to get students into school who do not want to be there, because if you enforce punitive measures, all it does is push them further away, and you're left with dropouts who hold up stores in broad daylight and deal drugs.

However, MCPS and all other schools in the nation should put pressure on state legislatures to force them to discipline students who are violent, verbally and physically (with special plans for those with disabilities). Regular students cannot learn in disruptive environments, and teachers an staff currently have no power to punish students for assaulting them, or other students.

Likewise, MCPS has had sexual and other assaults in many of its schools, even elementary schools, and it has been demonstrated that in certain instances it did not comply with standards of reporting to police. I am thinking about the Damascus rape case specifically, but I'm sure there are others.

If your child reports an assault at school, call 911 immediately. Do not wait for the school to cover it up.

I disagree. Absenteeism plays a role in a lot of the disfunction going on in schools right now.

When teens are allowed to be absent and roaming the streets, that's how they are enabled to commit crimes and link up with bad influences and associates like drug dealers or gang members.

Furthermore, there's no hope in closing the achievement gap if you can't get the kids to show up to be exposed to or engage with the content.

Not to mention state law obliges MCPS to do everything it can to ensure those 18 and under are in school, as dictated by the letter of the law.

I 100% agree that disruptive kids should not be in the same learning environment as those who want to learn, but the answer isn't to ignore those who are intentionally skipping school. The answer to me is that we need to reinstate the alternative schools for those with behavioral problems, which still compels them to be in some sort of school environment, but doesn't allow them to disrupt things.

Law enforcement is there to provide structure and accountability when citizens get out of line. We shouldn't shy away from that.

I mean, you can lead a horse to water… But if they are skipping school and their parents know full well what they’re doing then you can’t make them learn. It’s time to realize that not everyone is going to college (or even necessarily graduating high school).

I don’t think we should be graduating kids that are truant.

+1

HS Teacher here. At the root, we have lost what it means to earn a HS diploma. The state stopped enforcing truancy laws after a case where a petite mom asked a judge how exactly she was supposed to force her 6ft, 200 lb son to go to school. MCPS got rid of automatic failure due to too many unexcused absences (rightly so because some parents just wrote excuses while others wouldn’t). We have grading policies that are so generous that kids only need to turn in a couple of assignments to pass.

The state needs to redefine requirements to earn credit for a course to include a minimum amount of attendance (e.g. 90%), excused or not. For students with chronic absences (for whatever reason) offer an alternative “credit by examination” or just credit by completing an online course.

Also, part of the problem was the change in state law to require attendance until 18. Kids can’t drop out at 16 anymore. But what this did was put a huge burden on schools- teachers, counselors, and admin constantly chasing kids who don’t want to be in school. Being allowed to attend in-person school should be a privilege. If by age 16 a student can’t manage attending school regularly, then enroll them in an online program of study or an apprenticeship. The amount of resources devoted to truant students is staggering and is at a scale where it really is a detriment to the education of everyone else.

+1

Hi school diploma of somebody who’s putting zero effort, is chronically absent, never in school, gets 50s just by being enrolled, has the same value of a straight A, top of his class student at the best Montgomery county school. They both graduated and they both got the same diploma. That’s something to think about.

There's a reason college degrees are worth more than high school diplomas.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:(a) If a student fails to attend school without excuse on 10 or more days or parts of days within a six-month period in the same school year, a school district shall within 10 school days of the student's 10th absencerefer the student to a truancy court for truant conduct under Section 65.003(a), Family Code.

^^^
TX truancy laws

If your kid gets covid or a couple bad illnesses, you’re screwed.

Presumably absences for Covid wouldn’t be “without excuse” tho

You’d be surprised.

Are you schlepping to the doctor for a legit note?

Vs getting in trouble with truancy court? Sure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Would love to see some more nuanced data on this. Are they saying 18 full days? What do the parents say when contacted? How many can't be reached, versus how many say they didn't know, versus how many say that there was a good reason, versus how many say that their kid is out of control and there's nothing they can do?

At a lot of schools, the attendance records aren't accurate because subs don't keep them correctly or teachers can't correct them for tardies. Also some parents don't bother to write notes when a kid is coming in late after an orthodontist appointment or similar appointment, because no one really cares about that.

My understanding from our MCPS school is that this includes excused absences such as due to illness - meaning we were contacted about this for our elementary schooler who has only 2 unexcused absences the entire year (due to family travel) but 20 excused absences due to the constant illness circulating everywhere. So I’d like to see a better breakdown of how many kids are “chronically absent” based on unexcused absences before deciding whether this warrants the level of concern it seems to be provoking.

Way too rational a take for DCUM!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have bones to pick with MCPS, but absenteism is not it. It's very hard to get students into school who do not want to be there, because if you enforce punitive measures, all it does is push them further away, and you're left with dropouts who hold up stores in broad daylight and deal drugs.

However, MCPS and all other schools in the nation should put pressure on state legislatures to force them to discipline students who are violent, verbally and physically (with special plans for those with disabilities). Regular students cannot learn in disruptive environments, and teachers an staff currently have no power to punish students for assaulting them, or other students.

Likewise, MCPS has had sexual and other assaults in many of its schools, even elementary schools, and it has been demonstrated that in certain instances it did not comply with standards of reporting to police. I am thinking about the Damascus rape case specifically, but I'm sure there are others.

If your child reports an assault at school, call 911 immediately. Do not wait for the school to cover it up.

I disagree. Absenteeism plays a role in a lot of the disfunction going on in schools right now.

When teens are allowed to be absent and roaming the streets, that's how they are enabled to commit crimes and link up with bad influences and associates like drug dealers or gang members.

Furthermore, there's no hope in closing the achievement gap if you can't get the kids to show up to be exposed to or engage with the content.

Not to mention state law obliges MCPS to do everything it can to ensure those 18 and under are in school, as dictated by the letter of the law.

I 100% agree that disruptive kids should not be in the same learning environment as those who want to learn, but the answer isn't to ignore those who are intentionally skipping school. The answer to me is that we need to reinstate the alternative schools for those with behavioral problems, which still compels them to be in some sort of school environment, but doesn't allow them to disrupt things.

Law enforcement is there to provide structure and accountability when citizens get out of line. We shouldn't shy away from that.

I mean, you can lead a horse to water… But if they are skipping school and their parents know full well what they’re doing then you can’t make them learn. It’s time to realize that not everyone is going to college (or even necessarily graduating high school).

I don’t think we should be graduating kids that are truant.

+1

HS Teacher here. At the root, we have lost what it means to earn a HS diploma. The state stopped enforcing truancy laws after a case where a petite mom asked a judge how exactly she was supposed to force her 6ft, 200 lb son to go to school. MCPS got rid of automatic failure due to too many unexcused absences (rightly so because some parents just wrote excuses while others wouldn’t). We have grading policies that are so generous that kids only need to turn in a couple of assignments to pass.

The state needs to redefine requirements to earn credit for a course to include a minimum amount of attendance (e.g. 90%), excused or not. For students with chronic absences (for whatever reason) offer an alternative “credit by examination” or just credit by completing an online course.

Also, part of the problem was the change in state law to require attendance until 18. Kids can’t drop out at 16 anymore. But what this did was put a huge burden on schools- teachers, counselors, and admin constantly chasing kids who don’t want to be in school. Being allowed to attend in-person school should be a privilege. If by age 16 a student can’t manage attending school regularly, then enroll them in an online program of study or an apprenticeship. The amount of resources devoted to truant students is staggering and is at a scale where it really is a detriment to the education of everyone else.

+1

Hi school diploma of somebody who’s putting zero effort, is chronically absent, never in school, gets 50s just by being enrolled, has the same value of a straight A, top of his class student at the best Montgomery county school. They both graduated and they both got the same diploma. That’s something to think about.

Yup. The bar for high school diplomas is too damn low. No way someone who barely scrapes by with Ds should be recognized with the same thing as kids who bust their asses and get As and Bs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have bones to pick with MCPS, but absenteism is not it. It's very hard to get students into school who do not want to be there, because if you enforce punitive measures, all it does is push them further away, and you're left with dropouts who hold up stores in broad daylight and deal drugs.

However, MCPS and all other schools in the nation should put pressure on state legislatures to force them to discipline students who are violent, verbally and physically (with special plans for those with disabilities). Regular students cannot learn in disruptive environments, and teachers an staff currently have no power to punish students for assaulting them, or other students.

Likewise, MCPS has had sexual and other assaults in many of its schools, even elementary schools, and it has been demonstrated that in certain instances it did not comply with standards of reporting to police. I am thinking about the Damascus rape case specifically, but I'm sure there are others.

If your child reports an assault at school, call 911 immediately. Do not wait for the school to cover it up.

I disagree. Absenteeism plays a role in a lot of the disfunction going on in schools right now.

When teens are allowed to be absent and roaming the streets, that's how they are enabled to commit crimes and link up with bad influences and associates like drug dealers or gang members.

Furthermore, there's no hope in closing the achievement gap if you can't get the kids to show up to be exposed to or engage with the content.

Not to mention state law obliges MCPS to do everything it can to ensure those 18 and under are in school, as dictated by the letter of the law.

I 100% agree that disruptive kids should not be in the same learning environment as those who want to learn, but the answer isn't to ignore those who are intentionally skipping school. The answer to me is that we need to reinstate the alternative schools for those with behavioral problems, which still compels them to be in some sort of school environment, but doesn't allow them to disrupt things.

Law enforcement is there to provide structure and accountability when citizens get out of line. We shouldn't shy away from that.

I mean, you can lead a horse to water… But if they are skipping school and their parents know full well what they’re doing then you can’t make them learn. It’s time to realize that not everyone is going to college (or even necessarily graduating high school).

I don’t think we should be graduating kids that are truant.

+1

HS Teacher here. At the root, we have lost what it means to earn a HS diploma. The state stopped enforcing truancy laws after a case where a petite mom asked a judge how exactly she was supposed to force her 6ft, 200 lb son to go to school. MCPS got rid of automatic failure due to too many unexcused absences (rightly so because some parents just wrote excuses while others wouldn’t). We have grading policies that are so generous that kids only need to turn in a couple of assignments to pass.

The state needs to redefine requirements to earn credit for a course to include a minimum amount of attendance (e.g. 90%), excused or not. For students with chronic absences (for whatever reason) offer an alternative “credit by examination” or just credit by completing an online course.

Also, part of the problem was the change in state law to require attendance until 18. Kids can’t drop out at 16 anymore. But what this did was put a huge burden on schools- teachers, counselors, and admin constantly chasing kids who don’t want to be in school. Being allowed to attend in-person school should be a privilege. If by age 16 a student can’t manage attending school regularly, then enroll them in an online program of study or an apprenticeship. The amount of resources devoted to truant students is staggering and is at a scale where it really is a detriment to the education of everyone else.

+1

Hi school diploma of somebody who’s putting zero effort, is chronically absent, never in school, gets 50s just by being enrolled, has the same value of a straight A, top of his class student at the best Montgomery county school. They both graduated and they both got the same diploma. That’s something to think about.

There's a reason college degrees are worth more than high school diplomas.

Right, but High Schools diplomas should be worth something, not nothing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:They highlight Kennedy. The demographics skew low-income minorities—including newly arrived Latino young men who come to the US without parents to live/work. Plus a high number of black young men who simply don’t want to be in school. That school is surrounded by apartments and other rentals.

Mcps policy should not be driven by anomalies.

Rice used to talk about creating more non-traditional school programs for blue collar trades, etc. Try that.

Plus, the county has poured millions into gang prevention, etc.

Kennedy has among the highest chronic absenteeism but other MCPS high schools have notably higher than pre-pandemic chronic absenteeism rates too. So no, this is not some anomaly. It is a systemwide issue, with Kennedy just being the most extreme end of that issue.

Just to compare within the DCC:

Wheaton: 30%
Northwood: 39%
Blair: 34%
Einstein: 30%

And for other high FARMS schools, Kennedy is on par:

Watkins Mill: 48%
Gaithersburg High: 43%

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe school districts are responsible to ensure kids attend school. That is a parenting issue. I'm sorry, but why waste money on some kind of plan? Parents can send their kids or not.

Yes, agree with this. Why should schools care at this point. Honestly, the ones who are chronically absent are probably the ones who are causing problems at the school so the more they're absent, the better.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't believe school districts are responsible to ensure kids attend school. That is a parenting issue. I'm sorry, but why waste money on some kind of plan? Parents can send their kids or not.

Yes, agree with this. Why should schools care at this point. Honestly, the ones who are chronically absent are probably the ones who are causing problems at the school so the more they're absent, the better.

Not really, cause then they're out in the community pushing drugs, robbing stores or carjacking.

Keeping kids in school is a public safety and community wellbeing issue and we all should care about it. This selfish mindset is why we're in the mess that we're in right now.