If my kid has really strong academic credentials in STEM

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I think your kid is fine. From what I saw this year, kids with more diverse ECs were getting into "top" schools than ones like mine that had more STEM focus.

My kid has known what they want in STEM for years and already has had paid jobs and awards for that but sadly probably looked like everyone else.

Definitely not worth adjusting ECs for some hope of admissions. Better to do stuff he likes and then hope to stand out. No one truly knows what it takes. I find the state of college admissions today rather sad.

Fully agree. My DC got in very good engineering schools with no STEM ECs.
Writing strong statements about your DC's passions a nd non-STEM activities will get you further than trying to prove DC is at the top of the math pyramid (unless DC is at the very top).
Top schools have room for accomplished round students, not only for math geniuses.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many big state schools don't look for STEM ecs, just that you did something with your time.

OP here,

He’s a busy kid. He’s just busy doing things like building the sets for the school play, working part time for a landscaper, playing a club sport and a school sport, a coaching summer swim etc . . .

What about small school options.

That’s completely fine. A lot of engineering schools like to see kids do creative things too. Building sets for the school play is creative and also is relevant to engineering. He is designing and building things.
My kid got into a top engineering school without robotics club and the like.

I agree. My kid had 0 stem activities other than Math Honor Society and a science award. All her activities were theatre and music and dance. She got into several T15 listing math as a potential major (& arts). Not the same as applying for Engineering, but I think there it would be even more of an asset to have arts ECs. I totally agree about the sets. Could he take on a leadership role w/ the TD? Like Asst Designer or ATD? Good luck!

DP.. pardon, but it's easier for girls to get into CS/math than boys, especially white/Asian boys.

That is just not flat true. My senior daughter has 22 AP (all but 3 in heavy stem so a lot of post AP college level classes) at a top stem magnet, 1550+ SAT, top GPA, all 5’s on AP scores, USACO gold, other CompSci awards, math prize for girls, AIME, and yeah…….rough year for CompSci. It sucks. She is brilliant and works very hard, but if your parents don’t pay the 20K for private college “help” …..your screwed. It’s not uncommon for many parents at her school to pay $100,000 for senior year college application “help”…..I almost wish we had taken out the loan for college admissions “help” but this seems like madness.

How and why did your kid take 22 APs? At some point (don’t know the number 13? 14?) each incremental AP seems like a negative and taken solely for a GPA bump.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many big state schools don't look for STEM ecs, just that you did something with your time.

OP here,

He’s a busy kid. He’s just busy doing things like building the sets for the school play, working part time for a landscaper, playing a club sport and a school sport, a coaching summer swim etc . . .

What about small school options.

That’s completely fine. A lot of engineering schools like to see kids do creative things too. Building sets for the school play is creative and also is relevant to engineering. He is designing and building things.
My kid got into a top engineering school without robotics club and the like.

I agree. My kid had 0 stem activities other than Math Honor Society and a science award. All her activities were theatre and music and dance. She got into several T15 listing math as a potential major (& arts). Not the same as applying for Engineering, but I think there it would be even more of an asset to have arts ECs. I totally agree about the sets. Could he take on a leadership role w/ the TD? Like Asst Designer or ATD? Good luck!

DP.. pardon, but it's easier for girls to get into CS/math than boys, especially white/Asian boys.

That is just not flat true. My senior daughter has 22 AP (all but 3 in heavy stem so a lot of post AP college level classes) at a top stem magnet, 1550+ SAT, top GPA, all 5’s on AP scores, USACO gold, other CompSci awards, math prize for girls, AIME, and yeah…….rough year for CompSci. It sucks. She is brilliant and works very hard, but if your parents don’t pay the 20K for private college “help” …..your screwed. It’s not uncommon for many parents at her school to pay $100,000 for senior year college application “help”…..I almost wish we had taken out the loan for college admissions “help” but this seems like madness.

How and why did your kid take 22 APs? At some point (don’t know the number 13? 14?) each incremental AP seems like a negative and taken solely for a GPA bump.

OP here,

Who does it seem like this to? My kid is on that path, in a magnet that offers many “post AP” options.

[Anonymous]

Ok…I posted earlier. My kid took 22 AP / DE / post-AP but NOT for the GPA bump. In fact, many kids this top stem magnet avoid certain difficult post-AP classes just to not have their grade dinged by a A- (or God forbid a B+) in Differential Equations/ Electrodynamics/ AI/ Orgo…. They only take difficult classes spring semester senior year, if they think they will need the class in college. My kid took them starting in 9th grade because she loved stem and loved learning. She was making the most of the free learning and she’s very smart. Why the heck else go to a stem magnet?

We aren’t rich, and my kid is honest, so the college process was upsetting this year.
A lot of the parents at this top stem magnet feel if they can get away with it, then they are smarter and deserve it, even if lying and cheating.
It was upsetting to see how many kids flat out lied about internships. They would do 2 weeks at a family friend’s company every summer and make their resume look great. Paid professors 20K for “guided” research and self-published books, cheating on USACO contests getting help from college family friends, charities run by parents…..
I don’t know why the FBI hasn’t investigated some of these companies that claim they only help with essays and advice for seniors and charge $100,000. That’s not help with essays. That’s bribe money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Ok…I posted earlier. My kid took 22 AP / DE / post-AP but NOT for the GPA bump. In fact, many kids this top stem magnet avoid certain difficult post-AP classes just to not have their grade dinged by a A- (or God forbid a B+) in Differential Equations/ Electrodynamics/ AI/ Orgo…. They only take difficult classes spring semester senior year, if they think they will need the class in college. My kid took them starting in 9th grade because she loved stem and loved learning. She was making the most of the free learning and she’s very smart. Why the heck else go to a stem magnet?

We aren’t rich, and my kid is honest, so the college process was upsetting this year.
A lot of the parents at this top stem magnet feel if they can get away with it, then they are smarter and deserve it, even if lying and cheating.
It was upsetting to see how many kids flat out lied about internships. They would do 2 weeks at a family friend’s company every summer and make their resume look great. Paid professors 20K for “guided” research and self-published books, cheating on USACO contests getting help from college family friends, charities run by parents…..
I don’t know why the FBI hasn’t investigated some of these companies that claim they only help with essays and advice for seniors and charge $100,000. That’s not help with essays. That’s bribe money.

Can I ask what options your kid has ended up with? It sounds like your kid is similar to what mine might achieve if he does switch to STEM extracurriculars so it would helpful.

You don’t have to name schools, just giving a sense.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok…I posted earlier. My kid took 22 AP / DE / post-AP but NOT for the GPA bump. In fact, many kids this top stem magnet avoid certain difficult post-AP classes just to not have their grade dinged by a A- (or God forbid a B+) in Differential Equations/ Electrodynamics/ AI/ Orgo…. They only take difficult classes spring semester senior year, if they think they will need the class in college. My kid took them starting in 9th grade because she loved stem and loved learning. She was making the most of the free learning and she’s very smart. Why the heck else go to a stem magnet?

We aren’t rich, and my kid is honest, so the college process was upsetting this year.
A lot of the parents at this top stem magnet feel if they can get away with it, then they are smarter and deserve it, even if lying and cheating.
It was upsetting to see how many kids flat out lied about internships. They would do 2 weeks at a family friend’s company every summer and make their resume look great. Paid professors 20K for “guided” research and self-published books, cheating on USACO contests getting help from college family friends, charities run by parents…..
I don’t know why the FBI hasn’t investigated some of these companies that claim they only help with essays and advice for seniors and charge $100,000. That’s not help with essays. That’s bribe money.

Can I ask what options your kid has ended up with? It sounds like your kid is similar to what mine might achieve if he does switch to STEM extracurriculars so it would helpful.

You don’t have to name schools, just giving a sense.

DP but just to give you an idea. CS boy with 36 ACT, 13 AP (almost all 5s), STEM magnet, 4.0 UW, 4.8 W, and numerous STEM ECs. Only got into UMD and safety schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok…I posted earlier. My kid took 22 AP / DE / post-AP but NOT for the GPA bump. In fact, many kids this top stem magnet avoid certain difficult post-AP classes just to not have their grade dinged by a A- (or God forbid a B+) in Differential Equations/ Electrodynamics/ AI/ Orgo…. They only take difficult classes spring semester senior year, if they think they will need the class in college. My kid took them starting in 9th grade because she loved stem and loved learning. She was making the most of the free learning and she’s very smart. Why the heck else go to a stem magnet?

We aren’t rich, and my kid is honest, so the college process was upsetting this year.
A lot of the parents at this top stem magnet feel if they can get away with it, then they are smarter and deserve it, even if lying and cheating.
It was upsetting to see how many kids flat out lied about internships. They would do 2 weeks at a family friend’s company every summer and make their resume look great. Paid professors 20K for “guided” research and self-published books, cheating on USACO contests getting help from college family friends, charities run by parents…..
I don’t know why the FBI hasn’t investigated some of these companies that claim they only help with essays and advice for seniors and charge $100,000. That’s not help with essays. That’s bribe money.

Can I ask what options your kid has ended up with? It sounds like your kid is similar to what mine might achieve if he does switch to STEM extracurriculars so it would helpful.

You don’t have to name schools, just giving a sense.

DP but just to give you an idea. CS boy with 36 ACT, 13 AP (almost all 5s), STEM magnet, 4.0 UW, 4.8 W, and numerous STEM ECs. Only got into UMD and safety schools.

UMD is T20 for CS. I’d be delighted with that outcome. — OP

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok…I posted earlier. My kid took 22 AP / DE / post-AP but NOT for the GPA bump. In fact, many kids this top stem magnet avoid certain difficult post-AP classes just to not have their grade dinged by a A- (or God forbid a B+) in Differential Equations/ Electrodynamics/ AI/ Orgo…. They only take difficult classes spring semester senior year, if they think they will need the class in college. My kid took them starting in 9th grade because she loved stem and loved learning. She was making the most of the free learning and she’s very smart. Why the heck else go to a stem magnet?

We aren’t rich, and my kid is honest, so the college process was upsetting this year.
A lot of the parents at this top stem magnet feel if they can get away with it, then they are smarter and deserve it, even if lying and cheating.
It was upsetting to see how many kids flat out lied about internships. They would do 2 weeks at a family friend’s company every summer and make their resume look great. Paid professors 20K for “guided” research and self-published books, cheating on USACO contests getting help from college family friends, charities run by parents…..
I don’t know why the FBI hasn’t investigated some of these companies that claim they only help with essays and advice for seniors and charge $100,000. That’s not help with essays. That’s bribe money.

Can I ask what options your kid has ended up with? It sounds like your kid is similar to what mine might achieve if he does switch to STEM extracurriculars so it would helpful.

You don’t have to name schools, just giving a sense.

DP but just to give you an idea. CS boy with 36 ACT, 13 AP (almost all 5s), STEM magnet, 4.0 UW, 4.8 W, and numerous STEM ECs. Only got into UMD and safety schools.

UMD is T20 for CS. I’d be delighted with that outcome. — OP

Yes. Thank goodness for UMD! Lots of people are surprised by these results though.

[Anonymous]

OP, he sounds great. Apply to a mix of reaches, targets and safeties. Try and get in in the EA/ED round. You have as good a chance of getting in as anyone else, if you are not hooked.

All the best.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ok…I posted earlier. My kid took 22 AP / DE / post-AP but NOT for the GPA bump. In fact, many kids this top stem magnet avoid certain difficult post-AP classes just to not have their grade dinged by a A- (or God forbid a B+) in Differential Equations/ Electrodynamics/ AI/ Orgo…. They only take difficult classes spring semester senior year, if they think they will need the class in college. My kid took them starting in 9th grade because she loved stem and loved learning. She was making the most of the free learning and she’s very smart. Why the heck else go to a stem magnet?

We aren’t rich, and my kid is honest, so the college process was upsetting this year.
A lot of the parents at this top stem magnet feel if they can get away with it, then they are smarter and deserve it, even if lying and cheating.
It was upsetting to see how many kids flat out lied about internships. They would do 2 weeks at a family friend’s company every summer and make their resume look great. Paid professors 20K for “guided” research and self-published books, cheating on USACO contests getting help from college family friends, charities run by parents…..
I don’t know why the FBI hasn’t investigated some of these companies that claim they only help with essays and advice for seniors and charge $100,000. That’s not help with essays. That’s bribe money.

Can I ask what options your kid has ended up with? It sounds like your kid is similar to what mine might achieve if he does switch to STEM extracurriculars so it would helpful.

You don’t have to name schools, just giving a sense.

DP but just to give you an idea. CS boy with 36 ACT, 13 AP (almost all 5s), STEM magnet, 4.0 UW, 4.8 W, and numerous STEM ECs. Only got into UMD and safety schools.

UMD is T20 for CS. I’d be delighted with that outcome. — OP

Yes. Thank goodness for UMD! Lots of people are surprised by these results though.

My kid is in cs at UMD. His cohort includes mcps and TJ kids who declined UCB, UMich, GTech, Duke, UPenn, purdue etc. These are UMC kids who can afford to pay but chose to keep the money for more impactful spending. Some declined because of distance, weather, cost, lack of diversity, politics etc. Some declined because they are already working part time or have internships in organizations in DMV area. UMD also went a-shopping with some of the students and offered generouss merit scholarship. Almost free college education sounds very, very good.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many big state schools don't look for STEM ecs, just that you did something with your time.

OP here,

He’s a busy kid. He’s just busy doing things like building the sets for the school play, working part time for a landscaper, playing a club sport and a school sport, a coaching summer swim etc . . .

What about small school options.

That’s completely fine. A lot of engineering schools like to see kids do creative things too. Building sets for the school play is creative and also is relevant to engineering. He is designing and building things.
My kid got into a top engineering school without robotics club and the like.

I agree. My kid had 0 stem activities other than Math Honor Society and a science award. All her activities were theatre and music and dance. She got into several T15 listing math as a potential major (& arts). Not the same as applying for Engineering, but I think there it would be even more of an asset to have arts ECs. I totally agree about the sets. Could he take on a leadership role w/ the TD? Like Asst Designer or ATD? Good luck!

DP.. pardon, but it's easier for girls to get into CS/math than boys, especially white/Asian boys.

That is just not flat true. My senior daughter has 22 AP (all but 3 in heavy stem so a lot of post AP college level classes) at a top stem magnet, 1550+ SAT, top GPA, all 5’s on AP scores, USACO gold, other CompSci awards, math prize for girls, AIME, and yeah…….rough year for CompSci. It sucks. She is brilliant and works very hard, but if your parents don’t pay the 20K for private college “help” …..your screwed. It’s not uncommon for many parents at her school to pay $100,000 for senior year college application “help”…..I almost wish we had taken out the loan for college admissions “help” but this seems like madness.

It's competitive for sure, but it is still "easier" for girls. We spoke to a CMU student who was there for graduate and undergraduate, and they said that CMU is trying very hard to fill the class 50/50 male/female and DEI, and they are noticing the caliber of students starting to decline. More and more undergrads are needing tutors.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many big state schools don't look for STEM ecs, just that you did something with your time.

OP here,

He’s a busy kid. He’s just busy doing things like building the sets for the school play, working part time for a landscaper, playing a club sport and a school sport, a coaching summer swim etc . . .

What about small school options.

That’s completely fine. A lot of engineering schools like to see kids do creative things too. Building sets for the school play is creative and also is relevant to engineering. He is designing and building things.
My kid got into a top engineering school without robotics club and the like.

I agree. My kid had 0 stem activities other than Math Honor Society and a science award. All her activities were theatre and music and dance. She got into several T15 listing math as a potential major (& arts). Not the same as applying for Engineering, but I think there it would be even more of an asset to have arts ECs. I totally agree about the sets. Could he take on a leadership role w/ the TD? Like Asst Designer or ATD? Good luck!

DP.. pardon, but it's easier for girls to get into CS/math than boys, especially white/Asian boys.

That is just not flat true. My senior daughter has 22 AP (all but 3 in heavy stem so a lot of post AP college level classes) at a top stem magnet, 1550+ SAT, top GPA, all 5’s on AP scores, USACO gold, other CompSci awards, math prize for girls, AIME, and yeah…….rough year for CompSci. It sucks. She is brilliant and works very hard, but if your parents don’t pay the 20K for private college “help” …..your screwed. It’s not uncommon for many parents at her school to pay $100,000 for senior year college application “help”…..I almost wish we had taken out the loan for college admissions “help” but this seems like madness.

It's competitive for sure, but it is still "easier" for girls. We spoke to a CMU student who was there for graduate and undergraduate, and they said that CMU is trying very hard to fill the class 50/50 male/female and DEI, and they are noticing the caliber of students starting to decline. More and more undergrads are needing tutors.

It couldn’t possibly be that women are better at asking for help when they need it. It must be because they aren’t qualified.

At schools where majors aren’t selected in advance, like most ivies, women have the disadvantage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many big state schools don't look for STEM ecs, just that you did something with your time.

OP here,

He’s a busy kid. He’s just busy doing things like building the sets for the school play, working part time for a landscaper, playing a club sport and a school sport, a coaching summer swim etc . . .

What about small school options.

That’s completely fine. A lot of engineering schools like to see kids do creative things too. Building sets for the school play is creative and also is relevant to engineering. He is designing and building things.
My kid got into a top engineering school without robotics club and the like.

I agree. My kid had 0 stem activities other than Math Honor Society and a science award. All her activities were theatre and music and dance. She got into several T15 listing math as a potential major (& arts). Not the same as applying for Engineering, but I think there it would be even more of an asset to have arts ECs. I totally agree about the sets. Could he take on a leadership role w/ the TD? Like Asst Designer or ATD? Good luck!

DP.. pardon, but it's easier for girls to get into CS/math than boys, especially white/Asian boys.

That is just not flat true. My senior daughter has 22 AP (all but 3 in heavy stem so a lot of post AP college level classes) at a top stem magnet, 1550+ SAT, top GPA, all 5’s on AP scores, USACO gold, other CompSci awards, math prize for girls, AIME, and yeah…….rough year for CompSci. It sucks. She is brilliant and works very hard, but if your parents don’t pay the 20K for private college “help” …..your screwed. It’s not uncommon for many parents at her school to pay $100,000 for senior year college application “help”…..I almost wish we had taken out the loan for college admissions “help” but this seems like madness.

It's competitive for sure, but it is still "easier" for girls. We spoke to a CMU student who was there for graduate and undergraduate, and they said that CMU is trying very hard to fill the class 50/50 male/female and DEI, and they are noticing the caliber of students starting to decline. More and more undergrads are needing tutors.

It couldn’t possibly be that women are better at asking for help when they need it. It must be because they aren’t qualified.

At schools where majors aren’t selected in advance, like most ivies, women have the disadvantage.

DP. Yeah, the PP's "observations " smack of bias. Good grief.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many big state schools don't look for STEM ecs, just that you did something with your time.

OP here,

He’s a busy kid. He’s just busy doing things like building the sets for the school play, working part time for a landscaper, playing a club sport and a school sport, a coaching summer swim etc . . .

What about small school options.

Look at Wpi, rpi, URochester, CWRU, stevens (Nj). Most of those schools value kids with diverse interests. Yes, there will be plenty who did robotics etc, but also plenty who do music, theater, dance, etc as their other interests.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My magnet kid, 1580 SAT (800 math), 10+ APs, including 5 in calc , straight As, 4.9 wgpa with zero STEM related activities, but has others, was shut out at T15 for CS. Got into UMD.

CS is super tough. IMO, your kid needs more STEM related activities. We went the too well rounded route, and I don't think that helped.

OP here, I think that more STEM activities might help him get into T15 CS, or at least increase the very low odds to slightly less low odds.

I don't know that I see a benefit to T15 over UMD for this particular kid though, so in my mind he's fine as he is, and doesn't "need" more STEM.

But I also want him steering the ship, and right now he's saying that maybe he wants to shift to more STEM EC's. I'm fine with him shifting, but if he does then I want it based on reality. The idea that he won't get in "anywhere" is clearly absurd, so I'm trying to figure out what the actual impact could be.

Let him do what he loves!! Because ultimately, it would suck to do ECs “just to get into college” and then not get into where you want. I read let him do what he wants and dig deep into theater and have fun. Schools love the well balanced kid. However, maybe have him do a 2-3 week summer camp in coding/some engineering to demonstrate some interest. But let him focus on what he loves for ECs. Worked for my DD —in at all targets, WL at one reach and first year abroad at another reach, and refracted at t10. But I don’t think the ECs caused that—to think the 5% acceptance rates caused it.