Charting historic MCPS SMOBs by high school - 2 finalists’ schools represent 33.3% of all SMOBs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ModeratelyMoco wrote:Charting historic MCPS SMOBs by high school.

The 2 schools with SMOB finalists make up 33.3% (1/3) of all SMOBs ever despite 2 schools being under 8% of MCPS HS.

The top 3 schools make up 46.6% of all SMOBs (12% of schools).

6 High Schools have never had a SMOB. Inequity starts at the top.

? Springbrook (tied with Whitman) is a high FARMs school.

RM has a lot because many of the RMIB students are very engaged with leadership and SGA.

You do know that the students vote for their SMOB, right? Should we give extra votes to certain SMOB candidates from certain locations and demographics?

RM is also very close to MCPS HQ. It is easy for the SMOB to attend the meetings etc with other BOE members.

So is Rockville, though and they’ve had none.
There’s not really a pattern among the schools with 2 or more or with the schools that have zero. Maybe sometimes something could be a coincidence.

Does Richard Montgomery have a political science track or a really strong government class? Perhaps a passionate and inspiring teacher? Those numbers are really skewed.

RM just has a larger share of high flyers than most schools, due to the countywide IB magnet.

+1 the other contender is from Springbrook, which also has an IB program. I bet he's in the IBDP there.

But explains a lot. I am not up-to-date with SMOB issues. Are they effective and do they get things moving and happening?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ModeratelyMoco wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in MCPS, and my school has had one SMOB, who was elected while I was there. My kid came home from school with professionally printed campaign stickers one of the candidates and I was already so over it. I'm sure everyone has that kind of financial support and access to have that kind of swag. I wish they didn't even have a SMOB because it's not as though the person can actually do anything to make changes.

Regarding the last bit… they’re a full voting member of the BOE. That said, a lot of the campaign promises usually are not realistic to follow through

I really don't understand how their vote/signature can be legally acceptable for anything while they are under 18 years old. A minor is not allowed to legally sign anything on their own behalf except for "essential items."

The state of Maryland disagrees with you.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/08/25/student-voters-school-board-maryland/

"This week, Maryland’s highest court ruled in favor of student school board members, saying the position did not violate the state’s constitution, which bars minors from voting or from serving in public office. The Maryland Court of Appeals ruled that those provisions applied only to elected positions created by the state constitution — which does not include school boards. And it also pointed to the fact that state lawmakers had passed provisions in the 1970s and 1980s creating and defining the student school board positions, affirming their constitutionality."

No they don’t disagree. The position is different from the ability to sign a contract.

Is it? The post I responded to said "I really don't understand how their vote/signature can be legally acceptable for anything while they are under 18 years old." Was the point not whether the minor can play a part in official action? The answer is that they can. It is about the vote.

We can talk about signatures on contracts, but why would we? That is not relevant at all to the discussion....

Then you have no idea what board members do. Move on, you are clueless.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ModeratelyMoco wrote:Charting historic MCPS SMOBs by high school.

The 2 schools with SMOB finalists make up 33.3% (1/3) of all SMOBs ever despite 2 schools being under 8% of MCPS HS.

The top 3 schools make up 46.6% of all SMOBs (12% of schools).

6 High Schools have never had a SMOB. Inequity starts at the top.

? Springbrook (tied with Whitman) is a high FARMs school.

RM has a lot because many of the RMIB students are very engaged with leadership and SGA.

You do know that the students vote for their SMOB, right? Should we give extra votes to certain SMOB candidates from certain locations and demographics?

RM is also very close to MCPS HQ. It is easy for the SMOB to attend the meetings etc with other BOE members.

So is Rockville, though and they’ve had none.
There’s not really a pattern among the schools with 2 or more or with the schools that have zero. Maybe sometimes something could be a coincidence.

Does Richard Montgomery have a political science track or a really strong government class? Perhaps a passionate and inspiring teacher? Those numbers are really skewed.

RM just has a larger share of high flyers than most schools, due to the countywide IB magnet.

+1 the other contender is from Springbrook, which also has an IB program. I bet he's in the IBDP there.

But explains a lot. I am not up-to-date with SMOB issues. Are they effective and do they get things moving and happening?

No. They do what they are told and then they get a job with MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ModeratelyMoco wrote:Charting historic MCPS SMOBs by high school.

The 2 schools with SMOB finalists make up 33.3% (1/3) of all SMOBs ever despite 2 schools being under 8% of MCPS HS.

The top 3 schools make up 46.6% of all SMOBs (12% of schools).

6 High Schools have never had a SMOB. Inequity starts at the top.

? Springbrook (tied with Whitman) is a high FARMs school.

RM has a lot because many of the RMIB students are very engaged with leadership and SGA.

You do know that the students vote for their SMOB, right? Should we give extra votes to certain SMOB candidates from certain locations and demographics?

RM is also very close to MCPS HQ. It is easy for the SMOB to attend the meetings etc with other BOE members.

So is Rockville, though and they’ve had none.
There’s not really a pattern among the schools with 2 or more or with the schools that have zero. Maybe sometimes something could be a coincidence.

Does Richard Montgomery have a political science track or a really strong government class? Perhaps a passionate and inspiring teacher? Those numbers are really skewed.

RM just has a larger share of high flyers than most schools, due to the countywide IB magnet.

+1 the other contender is from Springbrook, which also has an IB program. I bet he's in the IBDP there.

But explains a lot. I am not up-to-date with SMOB issues. Are they effective and do they get things moving and happening?

No. They do what they are told and then they get a job with MCPS.

? The one from two years ago or so ended up at Harvard. I seriously doubt they will get a job at MCPS.

SMOBs can make a difference in that they can put forward resolutions, and of course, they have voting power.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ModeratelyMoco wrote:Charting historic MCPS SMOBs by high school.

The 2 schools with SMOB finalists make up 33.3% (1/3) of all SMOBs ever despite 2 schools being under 8% of MCPS HS.

The top 3 schools make up 46.6% of all SMOBs (12% of schools).

6 High Schools have never had a SMOB. Inequity starts at the top.

? Springbrook (tied with Whitman) is a high FARMs school.

RM has a lot because many of the RMIB students are very engaged with leadership and SGA.

You do know that the students vote for their SMOB, right? Should we give extra votes to certain SMOB candidates from certain locations and demographics?

RM is also very close to MCPS HQ. It is easy for the SMOB to attend the meetings etc with other BOE members.

So is Rockville, though and they’ve had none.
There’s not really a pattern among the schools with 2 or more or with the schools that have zero. Maybe sometimes something could be a coincidence.

Does Richard Montgomery have a political science track or a really strong government class? Perhaps a passionate and inspiring teacher? Those numbers are really skewed.

RM just has a larger share of high flyers than most schools, due to the countywide IB magnet.

+1 the other contender is from Springbrook, which also has an IB program. I bet he's in the IBDP there.

But explains a lot. I am not up-to-date with SMOB issues. Are they effective and do they get things moving and happening?

No. They do what they are told and then they get a job with MCPS.

? The one from two years ago or so ended up at Harvard. I seriously doubt they will get a job at MCPS.

SMOBs can make a difference in that they can put forward resolutions, and of course, they have voting power.

Smobs get nothing done and make no difference.

You are wrong on employment. Shows you don’t actually know what goes on.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ModeratelyMoco wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I grew up in MCPS, and my school has had one SMOB, who was elected while I was there. My kid came home from school with professionally printed campaign stickers one of the candidates and I was already so over it. I'm sure everyone has that kind of financial support and access to have that kind of swag. I wish they didn't even have a SMOB because it's not as though the person can actually do anything to make changes.

Regarding the last bit… they’re a full voting member of the BOE. That said, a lot of the campaign promises usually are not realistic to follow through

I really don't understand how their vote/signature can be legally acceptable for anything while they are under 18 years old. A minor is not allowed to legally sign anything on their own behalf except for "essential items."

The state of Maryland disagrees with you.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/education/2022/08/25/student-voters-school-board-maryland/

"This week, Maryland’s highest court ruled in favor of student school board members, saying the position did not violate the state’s constitution, which bars minors from voting or from serving in public office. The Maryland Court of Appeals ruled that those provisions applied only to elected positions created by the state constitution — which does not include school boards. And it also pointed to the fact that state lawmakers had passed provisions in the 1970s and 1980s creating and defining the student school board positions, affirming their constitutionality."

No they don’t disagree. The position is different from the ability to sign a contract.

Is it? The post I responded to said "I really don't understand how their vote/signature can be legally acceptable for anything while they are under 18 years old." Was the point not whether the minor can play a part in official action? The answer is that they can. It is about the vote.

We can talk about signatures on contracts, but why would we? That is not relevant at all to the discussion....

Then you have no idea what board members do. Move on, you are clueless.

I don't think of myself as fully uneducated on this, but I'm happy to hear what you think I am missing.

Board members vote. SMOBS vote. And their vote has been determined by the court to have authority and impact. Are there legal contracts between parties that individual Board members sign that you are questioning the ability for SMOBS to do?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

ModeratelyMoco wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, the students are the ones who vote. What do you suggest to remedy the issue? Is there something inherent in the process that causes this inequity?

I’d think outreach to schools to identify strong candidates would be a first step, perhaps working with counselors and SGA sponsors.

The biggest issue is that the narrowing down to finalists is done by a small select group of kids who need to go in person to vote and not everyone gets to vote.

Once the finalists are narrowed down, everyone gets to vote but that is not so for selecting who the finalists are.

This is incorrect. The biggest issue is earlier than that. There are not enough well qualified candidates that choose to run from the missing schools.

I think people don't realize the complex network of HS and MS SGA activities that exists across the county. It's not just the local school SGA. There is also Montgomery County Junior Council (MCJC) https://www.mcjcsga.org/ and Montgomery County Regional Student Government Association (MCR) https://www.mcrsga.com/ . MCR has a committee that manages the SMOB nominating process - they work on it all year from revising the SMOB Election Protocols through the nominating convention and running the election (my DC was on this a couple years ago). The students involved in student government function just like any other network of people over time. They get to know each other through different things they work on, they invite their friends to be involved, and over the years they build up a network of people who will vote for them. That narrowing down of candidates isn't done by a small select group of kids. It's a full blown nominating convention with the number of delegates based on school population (~1 per 200 students). There's a process for selecting the delegates spelled out. Anyone in the school can apply. However, the kids who usually end up as delegates are typically already part of the SGA at the school, because they are the ones interested and already involved. And because they are already involved, they probably are somewhat familiar with the candidates already. Again, it's all about the networking already done over the years.

If you want to improve equitable representation of the SMOB across high schools, there needs to be more equity in programs at the schools that leads to highly qualified candidates. Part of that is strong school level SGAs that have a high level of involved kids and who communicate the importance of being involve in MCJC and MCR. But I also think a key piece is having a good debate team at the school. I'm pretty sure most the recent SMOBs have been on their school debate team. At the nominating convention, the candidates need to sell themselves and their ideas to other students. Debate trained students can just talk circles around candidates who are not strong speakers. It doesn't matter if a SMOB candidate has some good ideas, if they can't sell them to the other students, they won't get nominated.

DC found out by chance that there is such a thing as MCJC. They ran into someone during an EC activity that was participating in MCJC in another school. In DC's school there was never any mention of MCJC. When DC inquired about spreading awareness to other schools, DC got the impression that MCJC was quite ok staying obscure.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ModeratelyMoco wrote:Charting historic MCPS SMOBs by high school.

The 2 schools with SMOB finalists make up 33.3% (1/3) of all SMOBs ever despite 2 schools being under 8% of MCPS HS.

The top 3 schools make up 46.6% of all SMOBs (12% of schools).

6 High Schools have never had a SMOB. Inequity starts at the top.

? Springbrook (tied with Whitman) is a high FARMs school.

RM has a lot because many of the RMIB students are very engaged with leadership and SGA.

You do know that the students vote for their SMOB, right? Should we give extra votes to certain SMOB candidates from certain locations and demographics?

RM is also very close to MCPS HQ. It is easy for the SMOB to attend the meetings etc with other BOE members.

So is Rockville, though and they’ve had none.
There’s not really a pattern among the schools with 2 or more or with the schools that have zero. Maybe sometimes something could be a coincidence.

Does Richard Montgomery have a political science track or a really strong government class? Perhaps a passionate and inspiring teacher? Those numbers are really skewed.

RM just has a larger share of high flyers than most schools, due to the countywide IB magnet.

+1 the other contender is from Springbrook, which also has an IB program. I bet he's in the IBDP there.

But explains a lot. I am not up-to-date with SMOB issues. Are they effective and do they get things moving and happening?

No. They do what they are told and then they get a job with MCPS.

? The one from two years ago or so ended up at Harvard. I seriously doubt they will get a job at MCPS.

SMOBs can make a difference in that they can put forward resolutions, and of course, they have voting power.

Smobs get nothing done and make no difference.

You are wrong on employment. Shows you don’t actually know what goes on.

? cite your source then.

https://thermtide.com/15888/news/hana-olooney-wraps-up-the-semester-as-smob/

You think she will end up working for MCPS? I doubt it.

[Anonymous]

There is one former SMOB who is currently an assistant to the MCPS chief of staff. Another former SMOB is a current principal. I'm not aware that there are others working for MCPS.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ModeratelyMoco wrote:Charting historic MCPS SMOBs by high school.

The 2 schools with SMOB finalists make up 33.3% (1/3) of all SMOBs ever despite 2 schools being under 8% of MCPS HS.

The top 3 schools make up 46.6% of all SMOBs (12% of schools).

6 High Schools have never had a SMOB. Inequity starts at the top.

? Springbrook (tied with Whitman) is a high FARMs school.

RM has a lot because many of the RMIB students are very engaged with leadership and SGA.

You do know that the students vote for their SMOB, right? Should we give extra votes to certain SMOB candidates from certain locations and demographics?

RM is also very close to MCPS HQ. It is easy for the SMOB to attend the meetings etc with other BOE members.

So is Rockville, though and they’ve had none.
There’s not really a pattern among the schools with 2 or more or with the schools that have zero. Maybe sometimes something could be a coincidence.

Does Richard Montgomery have a political science track or a really strong government class? Perhaps a passionate and inspiring teacher? Those numbers are really skewed.

RM just has a larger share of high flyers than most schools, due to the countywide IB magnet.

+1 the other contender is from Springbrook, which also has an IB program. I bet he's in the IBDP there.

But explains a lot. I am not up-to-date with SMOB issues. Are they effective and do they get things moving and happening?

No. They do what they are told and then they get a job with MCPS.

? The one from two years ago or so ended up at Harvard. I seriously doubt they will get a job at MCPS.

SMOBs can make a difference in that they can put forward resolutions, and of course, they have voting power.

Smobs get nothing done and make no difference.

You are wrong on employment. Shows you don’t actually know what goes on.

? cite your source then.

https://thermtide.com/15888/news/hana-olooney-wraps-up-the-semester-as-smob/

You think she will end up working for MCPS? I doubt it.

NP. I was curious and ran a bunch of the old SMOBs through Google. Dustin Jeter SMOB 2001-2002 has been an MCPS teacher for 16 years. That was the only one I found, but obviously some of them don't have online presences that I could be sure of who they were (a surprising number do list their SMOB experience on LinkedIn though)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

ModeratelyMoco wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well, the students are the ones who vote. What do you suggest to remedy the issue? Is there something inherent in the process that causes this inequity?

I’d think outreach to schools to identify strong candidates would be a first step, perhaps working with counselors and SGA sponsors.

The biggest issue is that the narrowing down to finalists is done by a small select group of kids who need to go in person to vote and not everyone gets to vote.

Once the finalists are narrowed down, everyone gets to vote but that is not so for selecting who the finalists are.

This is incorrect. The biggest issue is earlier than that. There are not enough well qualified candidates that choose to run from the missing schools.

I think people don't realize the complex network of HS and MS SGA activities that exists across the county. It's not just the local school SGA. There is also Montgomery County Junior Council (MCJC) https://www.mcjcsga.org/ and Montgomery County Regional Student Government Association (MCR) https://www.mcrsga.com/ . MCR has a committee that manages the SMOB nominating process - they work on it all year from revising the SMOB Election Protocols through the nominating convention and running the election (my DC was on this a couple years ago). The students involved in student government function just like any other network of people over time. They get to know each other through different things they work on, they invite their friends to be involved, and over the years they build up a network of people who will vote for them. That narrowing down of candidates isn't done by a small select group of kids. It's a full blown nominating convention with the number of delegates based on school population (~1 per 200 students). There's a process for selecting the delegates spelled out. Anyone in the school can apply. However, the kids who usually end up as delegates are typically already part of the SGA at the school, because they are the ones interested and already involved. And because they are already involved, they probably are somewhat familiar with the candidates already. Again, it's all about the networking already done over the years.

If you want to improve equitable representation of the SMOB across high schools, there needs to be more equity in programs at the schools that leads to highly qualified candidates. Part of that is strong school level SGAs that have a high level of involved kids and who communicate the importance of being involve in MCJC and MCR. But I also think a key piece is having a good debate team at the school. I'm pretty sure most the recent SMOBs have been on their school debate team. At the nominating convention, the candidates need to sell themselves and their ideas to other students. Debate trained students can just talk circles around candidates who are not strong speakers. It doesn't matter if a SMOB candidate has some good ideas, if they can't sell them to the other students, they won't get nominated.

DC found out by chance that there is such a thing as MCJC. They ran into someone during an EC activity that was participating in MCJC in another school. In DC's school there was never any mention of MCJC. When DC inquired about spreading awareness to other schools, DC got the impression that MCJC was quite ok staying obscure.

It’s a club. DC isn’t welcome.

[Anonymous]

You find out through your school's SGA. Is your child involved in the SGA?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:You find out through your school's SGA. Is your child involved in the SGA?

It's politics 101. SGA is the first step. Get involved and move up. SMOB is realpolitik.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You find out through your school's SGA. Is your child involved in the SGA?

It's politics 101. SGA is the first step. Get involved and move up. SMOB is realpolitik.

It's not realpolitik, it's just plain politics. Like every other elected office.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You find out through your school's SGA. Is your child involved in the SGA?

It's politics 101. SGA is the first step. Get involved and move up. SMOB is realpolitik.

Odd, the adults don't have to join a private club to run for office. They just sign up at the Board of Elections.