More sub 50% means in HS AP Science Classes

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh. What are these teachers doing? If for each and every test, the mean hovers at 50% all year long, doesn't it indicate that the test is out of alignment with the instruction? In College, they curve. Here, the teacher allows correction, but the max when one gets 50% is 75%.

No. It means students are not performing to the level of standard for the class. This year’s juniors in particular seem to be significantly lacking in study skills. They had a virtual 9th grade where they were passive observers of instruction, and an easy 10th grade with overly flexible deadlines, retakes, and grading. They have arrived in 11th grade with an overinflated idea of their natural abilities, and when faced with difficulty have no idea they should do something about it. Many aren’t even doing classwork during class time (they do work for other classes), don’t complete basic homework like reading a textbook, and certainly don’t know how to review for a test. I don’t teach APES specifically, but I get an earful about it from that teacher. They are very experienced and usually have students earning great scores, but this year is just not coming together for kids.

How are they addressing the study skill deficit?

The schools cannot cure all problems. Kids have to learn to step up.

I second this as a parent. Education is a two way street. It’s not passive. If you aren’t getting the grades you desire then first and foremost it is on the student to determine what needs to change. Be it additional studying, getting help from the teacher or tutor, changing how notes are recorded, etc. This doesn’t mean that all teachers are great, as some do did additional training and support. However, in 2023, there are many ways for kids to be able to work around a not so great teacher and still be successful. At a certain point the responsibility for learning shifts to the learner.

Kids have developed serious learned helplessness and blame shifting and some well-meaning parents are enabling this crap by preventing their kids from dealing with the consequences of their lackluster effort or poor choices. If you get one bad grade, you as the student need to pay attention to that grade, inquire why you got that grade and how you can do better next time. That is not on the teacher, that is 100% on the student.

IMO it is both the teacher and student. For example, the student says "what can I do?" and the teacher replies "do more practice problems." There may literally be a million practice problems on the web. It helps if the teacher drills down a bit more by suggesting a source for the problems that they find particularly valuable, or that has a good explanation. Yes, kid can ask follow-up about that, but often these interactions are over email, and how many back-and-forth efforts should be expected?

Are some teachers less than helpful? Yes. Should and could a teacher be more specific? Sure. But it's on the kids to advocate for themselves.

In my experience, with my own kids, teachers often provide all of the tools and resources needed to succeed in the course. Kids, however, often times aren't paying attention in class or can't be bothered to read something comprehensively and thoroughly, so they default to wanting the teacher to tell them what to do, which is not what's expected of an AP student.

In the scenario you outlined, a kid who has paid attention in class and is aware of the resources suggested in the syllabus or by the teacher would approach the teacher from the onset and say, "Hi, I've been doing the practice problems you pointed us to on DeltaMath for at least 2 hours each week, but the practice problems don't seem to be helping me do better on the quiz."

Instead, most kids say something vague or generic like, "How can I get a better grade in the class? My parents are mad at me." The student is not actually engaged or motivated in their learning journey, they're just looking to check a box that their parents are forcing them to and that attitude is apparent in their communication. So I can't blame the teacher for answering a vague question with a vague answer. Developing advocacy and communication skills is part of what is expected of an AP-level student.

[Anonymous]

My kid is in one of these classes and doing reasonably well. Consistently in top quartile but the median grades are shockingly bad. I can tell you that of my kid’s many AP and other classes, kid reports this is the worst teacher. Not a mean or bad person - just not good at teaching this course. Finds attending class to be a waste (but still does). I bought kid all the outside AP materials. Not every family can do that. No other class has had grades this low.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is in one of these classes and doing reasonably well. Consistently in top quartile but the median grades are shockingly bad. I can tell you that of my kid’s many AP and other classes, kid reports this is the worst teacher. Not a mean or bad person - just not good at teaching this course. Finds attending class to be a waste (but still does). I bought kid all the outside AP materials. Not every family can do that. No other class has had grades this low.

I can sympathize if students don’t have a really good teacher in an AP class. That said, that alone is not a reason to throw up their hands. They can schedule to meet with teachers before or after school or during lunch. They could talk to another teacher in the department or the lead for that department, or even reach out to a teacher at another school. MCPS is offer free tutoring. They could form a study group with others students in the class. The public library has study books. They are dozens of resources online. Etc etc.

If a student wants to succeed they can they just need to be willing to put in the effort and not assume attending class is going to be enough or that the can run to mommy or daddy and everything will be well. As someone a PP said, it’s learned helplessness. Parents need to help kids learn to stretch beyond its not working to thinking outside the box and determine how can I make it work for me.

When a kid gets to HS, I as a parent am not responsible for their grades or learning. I’m here to provide support, advice, occasional reminders, help as needed, and resources when not available. I’ve told my own kid since upper elementary, it’s not enough to just say “I need help”. What do you need help with? what you need from me(or whomever) or how do you need me to help you? What have you already done or ruled out?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh. What are these teachers doing? If for each and every test, the mean hovers at 50% all year long, doesn't it indicate that the test is out of alignment with the instruction? In College, they curve. Here, the teacher allows correction, but the max when one gets 50% is 75%.

No. It means students are not performing to the level of standard for the class. This year’s juniors in particular seem to be significantly lacking in study skills. They had a virtual 9th grade where they were passive observers of instruction, and an easy 10th grade with overly flexible deadlines, retakes, and grading. They have arrived in 11th grade with an overinflated idea of their natural abilities, and when faced with difficulty have no idea they should do something about it. Many aren’t even doing classwork during class time (they do work for other classes), don’t complete basic homework like reading a textbook, and certainly don’t know how to review for a test. I don’t teach APES specifically, but I get an earful about it from that teacher. They are very experienced and usually have students earning great scores, but this year is just not coming together for kids.

How are they addressing the study skill deficit?

The schools cannot cure all problems. Kids have to learn to step up.

I second this as a parent. Education is a two way street. It’s not passive. If you aren’t getting the grades you desire then first and foremost it is on the student to determine what needs to change. Be it additional studying, getting help from the teacher or tutor, changing how notes are recorded, etc. This doesn’t mean that all teachers are great, as some do did additional training and support. However, in 2023, there are many ways for kids to be able to work around a not so great teacher and still be successful. At a certain point the responsibility for learning shifts to the learner.

Kids have developed serious learned helplessness and blame shifting and some well-meaning parents are enabling this crap by preventing their kids from dealing with the consequences of their lackluster effort or poor choices. If you get one bad grade, you as the student need to pay attention to that grade, inquire why you got that grade and how you can do better next time. That is not on the teacher, that is 100% on the student.

IMO it is both the teacher and student. For example, the student says "what can I do?" and the teacher replies "do more practice problems." There may literally be a million practice problems on the web. It helps if the teacher drills down a bit more by suggesting a source for the problems that they find particularly valuable, or that has a good explanation. Yes, kid can ask follow-up about that, but often these interactions are over email, and how many back-and-forth efforts should be expected?

Are some teachers less than helpful? Yes. Should and could a teacher be more specific? Sure. But it's on the kids to advocate for themselves.

In my experience, with my own kids, teachers often provide all of the tools and resources needed to succeed in the course. Kids, however, often times aren't paying attention in class or can't be bothered to read something comprehensively and thoroughly, so they default to wanting the teacher to tell them what to do, which is not what's expected of an AP student.

In the scenario you outlined, a kid who has paid attention in class and is aware of the resources suggested in the syllabus or by the teacher would approach the teacher from the onset and say, "Hi, I've been doing the practice problems you pointed us to on DeltaMath for at least 2 hours each week, but the practice problems don't seem to be helping me do better on the quiz."

Instead, most kids say something vague or generic like, "How can I get a better grade in the class? My parents are mad at me." The student is not actually engaged or motivated in their learning journey, they're just looking to check a box that their parents are forcing them to and that attitude is apparent in their communication. So I can't blame the teacher for answering a vague question with a vague answer. Developing advocacy and communication skills is part of what is expected of an AP-level student.

There's a certain level of maturity required to be a successful self-advocate, even to formulate the right follow-up question on the spot to get to the information. Is it the point in HS to hide the ball when the kids brains are not developed to the same level as a "real" college kid? HS kids are capable of learning the curriculum, but they do need a certain level of direct instruction. It's my 7th grader with whom I have the conversation that "I don't get it" is not enough. I expect more of my HS student, too. But I would not expect my HS student to learn science content via Socratic method. They need the bottom line.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is in one of these classes and doing reasonably well. Consistently in top quartile but the median grades are shockingly bad. I can tell you that of my kid’s many AP and other classes, kid reports this is the worst teacher. Not a mean or bad person - just not good at teaching this course. Finds attending class to be a waste (but still does). I bought kid all the outside AP materials. Not every family can do that. No other class has had grades this low.

I can sympathize if students don’t have a really good teacher in an AP class. That said, that alone is not a reason to throw up their hands. They can schedule to meet with teachers before or after school or during lunch. They could talk to another teacher in the department or the lead for that department, or even reach out to a teacher at another school. MCPS is offer free tutoring. They could form a study group with others students in the class. The public library has study books. They are dozens of resources online. Etc etc.

If a student wants to succeed they can they just need to be willing to put in the effort and not assume attending class is going to be enough or that the can run to mommy or daddy and everything will be well. As someone a PP said, it’s learned helplessness. Parents need to help kids learn to stretch beyond its not working to thinking outside the box and determine how can I make it work for me.

When a kid gets to HS, I as a parent am not responsible for their grades or learning. I’m here to provide support, advice, occasional reminders, help as needed, and resources when not available. I’ve told my own kid since upper elementary, it’s not enough to just say “I need help”. What do you need help with? what you need from me(or whomever) or how do you need me to help you? What have you already done or ruled out?

It’s stunning how all knowing you are for someone who knows nothing of this particular and unique situation. And you clearly have not used the FEV tutoring. MCPS is desperate to get kids to use it to justify the contract - even offering worthless SAT tutoring.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is in one of these classes and doing reasonably well. Consistently in top quartile but the median grades are shockingly bad. I can tell you that of my kid’s many AP and other classes, kid reports this is the worst teacher. Not a mean or bad person - just not good at teaching this course. Finds attending class to be a waste (but still does). I bought kid all the outside AP materials. Not every family can do that. No other class has had grades this low.

I can sympathize if students don’t have a really good teacher in an AP class. That said, that alone is not a reason to throw up their hands. They can schedule to meet with teachers before or after school or during lunch. They could talk to another teacher in the department or the lead for that department, or even reach out to a teacher at another school. MCPS is offer free tutoring. They could form a study group with others students in the class. The public library has study books. They are dozens of resources online. Etc etc.

If a student wants to succeed they can they just need to be willing to put in the effort and not assume attending class is going to be enough or that the can run to mommy or daddy and everything will be well. As someone a PP said, it’s learned helplessness. Parents need to help kids learn to stretch beyond its not working to thinking outside the box and determine how can I make it work for me.

When a kid gets to HS, I as a parent am not responsible for their grades or learning. I’m here to provide support, advice, occasional reminders, help as needed, and resources when not available. I’ve told my own kid since upper elementary, it’s not enough to just say “I need help”. What do you need help with? what you need from me(or whomever) or how do you need me to help you? What have you already done or ruled out?

It’s stunning how all knowing you are for someone who knows nothing of this particular and unique situation. And you clearly have not used the FEV tutoring. MCPS is desperate to get kids to use it to justify the contract - even offering worthless SAT tutoring.

FEV is not the only tutoring option MCPS provides. There's TutorMe, which is individualized, one-on-one remote tutoring and in-school tutoring options as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is in one of these classes and doing reasonably well. Consistently in top quartile but the median grades are shockingly bad. I can tell you that of my kid’s many AP and other classes, kid reports this is the worst teacher. Not a mean or bad person - just not good at teaching this course. Finds attending class to be a waste (but still does). I bought kid all the outside AP materials. Not every family can do that. No other class has had grades this low.

I can sympathize if students don’t have a really good teacher in an AP class. That said, that alone is not a reason to throw up their hands. They can schedule to meet with teachers before or after school or during lunch. They could talk to another teacher in the department or the lead for that department, or even reach out to a teacher at another school. MCPS is offer free tutoring. They could form a study group with others students in the class. The public library has study books. They are dozens of resources online. Etc etc.

If a student wants to succeed they can they just need to be willing to put in the effort and not assume attending class is going to be enough or that the can run to mommy or daddy and everything will be well. As someone a PP said, it’s learned helplessness. Parents need to help kids learn to stretch beyond its not working to thinking outside the box and determine how can I make it work for me.

When a kid gets to HS, I as a parent am not responsible for their grades or learning. I’m here to provide support, advice, occasional reminders, help as needed, and resources when not available. I’ve told my own kid since upper elementary, it’s not enough to just say “I need help”. What do you need help with? what you need from me(or whomever) or how do you need me to help you? What have you already done or ruled out?

It’s stunning how all knowing you are for someone who knows nothing of this particular and unique situation. And you clearly have not used the FEV tutoring. MCPS is desperate to get kids to use it to justify the contract - even offering worthless SAT tutoring.

I think you are focusing on one resource option and not focusing on the larger message which is that there are MANY resources available to the student that wants to succeed. Education is not just on the teacher, it also requires effort from the learner. A key part of HS is for students to start taking responsibility for their learning. When a student takes an AP class, which is meant to be a college level introductory class, the expectation is definitely that the student will take responsibility for their learning. If a kid can’t or won’t take that responsibility, then they are not ready to take an AP class.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is in one of these classes and doing reasonably well. Consistently in top quartile but the median grades are shockingly bad. I can tell you that of my kid’s many AP and other classes, kid reports this is the worst teacher. Not a mean or bad person - just not good at teaching this course. Finds attending class to be a waste (but still does). I bought kid all the outside AP materials. Not every family can do that. No other class has had grades this low.

I can sympathize if students don’t have a really good teacher in an AP class. That said, that alone is not a reason to throw up their hands. They can schedule to meet with teachers before or after school or during lunch. They could talk to another teacher in the department or the lead for that department, or even reach out to a teacher at another school. MCPS is offer free tutoring. They could form a study group with others students in the class. The public library has study books. They are dozens of resources online. Etc etc.

If a student wants to succeed they can they just need to be willing to put in the effort and not assume attending class is going to be enough or that the can run to mommy or daddy and everything will be well. As someone a PP said, it’s learned helplessness. Parents need to help kids learn to stretch beyond its not working to thinking outside the box and determine how can I make it work for me.

When a kid gets to HS, I as a parent am not responsible for their grades or learning. I’m here to provide support, advice, occasional reminders, help as needed, and resources when not available. I’ve told my own kid since upper elementary, it’s not enough to just say “I need help”. What do you need help with? what you need from me(or whomever) or how do you need me to help you? What have you already done or ruled out?

It’s stunning how all knowing you are for someone who knows nothing of this particular and unique situation. And you clearly have not used the FEV tutoring. MCPS is desperate to get kids to use it to justify the contract - even offering worthless SAT tutoring.

I think you are focusing on one resource option and not focusing on the larger message which is that there are MANY resources available to the student that wants to succeed. Education is not just on the teacher, it also requires effort from the learner. A key part of HS is for students to start taking responsibility for their learning. When a student takes an AP class, which is meant to be a college level introductory class, the expectation is definitely that the student will take responsibility for their learning. If a kid can’t or won’t take that responsibility, then they are not ready to take an AP class.

Well aware and my kid is doing quite well in all of their AP classes, thanks. When your kid is taking double digit number of AP classes throughout HS, though, you can appreciate when something isn’t quite right with one class. I’m not sure why you feel compelled to sanctimommy on something you know nothing about.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is in one of these classes and doing reasonably well. Consistently in top quartile but the median grades are shockingly bad. I can tell you that of my kid’s many AP and other classes, kid reports this is the worst teacher. Not a mean or bad person - just not good at teaching this course. Finds attending class to be a waste (but still does). I bought kid all the outside AP materials. Not every family can do that. No other class has had grades this low.

I can sympathize if students don’t have a really good teacher in an AP class. That said, that alone is not a reason to throw up their hands. They can schedule to meet with teachers before or after school or during lunch. They could talk to another teacher in the department or the lead for that department, or even reach out to a teacher at another school. MCPS is offer free tutoring. They could form a study group with others students in the class. The public library has study books. They are dozens of resources online. Etc etc.

If a student wants to succeed they can they just need to be willing to put in the effort and not assume attending class is going to be enough or that the can run to mommy or daddy and everything will be well. As someone a PP said, it’s learned helplessness. Parents need to help kids learn to stretch beyond its not working to thinking outside the box and determine how can I make it work for me.

When a kid gets to HS, I as a parent am not responsible for their grades or learning. I’m here to provide support, advice, occasional reminders, help as needed, and resources when not available. I’ve told my own kid since upper elementary, it’s not enough to just say “I need help”. What do you need help with? what you need from me(or whomever) or how do you need me to help you? What have you already done or ruled out?

It’s stunning how all knowing you are for someone who knows nothing of this particular and unique situation. And you clearly have not used the FEV tutoring. MCPS is desperate to get kids to use it to justify the contract - even offering worthless SAT tutoring.

I think you are focusing on one resource option and not focusing on the larger message which is that there are MANY resources available to the student that wants to succeed. Education is not just on the teacher, it also requires effort from the learner. A key part of HS is for students to start taking responsibility for their learning. When a student takes an AP class, which is meant to be a college level introductory class, the expectation is definitely that the student will take responsibility for their learning. If a kid can’t or won’t take that responsibility, then they are not ready to take an AP class.

Well aware and my kid is doing quite well in all of their AP classes, thanks. When your kid is taking double digit number of AP classes throughout HS, though, you can appreciate when something isn’t quite right with one class. I’m not sure why you feel compelled to sanctimommy on something you know nothing about.

Then, since you are smarter than everyone, maybe you can teach some of these classes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kid is in one of these classes and doing reasonably well. Consistently in top quartile but the median grades are shockingly bad. I can tell you that of my kid’s many AP and other classes, kid reports this is the worst teacher. Not a mean or bad person - just not good at teaching this course. Finds attending class to be a waste (but still does). I bought kid all the outside AP materials. Not every family can do that. No other class has had grades this low.

I can sympathize if students don’t have a really good teacher in an AP class. That said, that alone is not a reason to throw up their hands. They can schedule to meet with teachers before or after school or during lunch. They could talk to another teacher in the department or the lead for that department, or even reach out to a teacher at another school. MCPS is offer free tutoring. They could form a study group with others students in the class. The public library has study books. They are dozens of resources online. Etc etc.

If a student wants to succeed they can they just need to be willing to put in the effort and not assume attending class is going to be enough or that the can run to mommy or daddy and everything will be well. As someone a PP said, it’s learned helplessness. Parents need to help kids learn to stretch beyond its not working to thinking outside the box and determine how can I make it work for me.

When a kid gets to HS, I as a parent am not responsible for their grades or learning. I’m here to provide support, advice, occasional reminders, help as needed, and resources when not available. I’ve told my own kid since upper elementary, it’s not enough to just say “I need help”. What do you need help with? what you need from me(or whomever) or how do you need me to help you? What have you already done or ruled out?

It’s stunning how all knowing you are for someone who knows nothing of this particular and unique situation. And you clearly have not used the FEV tutoring. MCPS is desperate to get kids to use it to justify the contract - even offering worthless SAT tutoring.

I think you are focusing on one resource option and not focusing on the larger message which is that there are MANY resources available to the student that wants to succeed. Education is not just on the teacher, it also requires effort from the learner. A key part of HS is for students to start taking responsibility for their learning. When a student takes an AP class, which is meant to be a college level introductory class, the expectation is definitely that the student will take responsibility for their learning. If a kid can’t or won’t take that responsibility, then they are not ready to take an AP class.

Well aware and my kid is doing quite well in all of their AP classes, thanks. When your kid is taking double digit number of AP classes throughout HS, though, you can appreciate when something isn’t quite right with one class. I’m not sure why you feel compelled to sanctimommy on something you know nothing about.

Then, since you are smarter than everyone, maybe you can teach some of these classes.

I do. I’m booked.

[Anonymous]

Some teachers, not that many, still seem to have high grading standards.
We should be glad given all the ridiculous grade inflation in MCPS.
Kids have gotten used to getting As without putting in much work

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ugh. What are these teachers doing? If for each and every test, the mean hovers at 50% all year long, doesn't it indicate that the test is out of alignment with the instruction? In College, they curve. Here, the teacher allows correction, but the max when one gets 50% is 75%.

No. It means students are not performing to the level of standard for the class. This year’s juniors in particular seem to be significantly lacking in study skills. They had a virtual 9th grade where they were passive observers of instruction, and an easy 10th grade with overly flexible deadlines, retakes, and grading. They have arrived in 11th grade with an overinflated idea of their natural abilities, and when faced with difficulty have no idea they should do something about it. Many aren’t even doing classwork during class time (they do work for other classes), don’t complete basic homework like reading a textbook, and certainly don’t know how to review for a test. I don’t teach APES specifically, but I get an earful about it from that teacher. They are very experienced and usually have students earning great scores, but this year is just not coming together for kids.

How are they addressing the study skill deficit?

That probably won't be addressed much in an AP class. We have limited time to present information and expect kids to engage with the material. For me (have taught AP courses for 13 years), I work on note-taking skills at the beginning of the year, but other basic study skills? No, it is all based on practice assignments and those count toward your grade. Though I'm not sure that the current problems are specifically based on study skills. It is more about resilience, being willing to work, etc. If kids refuse to read assignments, etc. that is going to be a problem for them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:APES? That’s about how it’s going for my DC’s class. Teacher is not great. I’ve never seen such low exam averages.

APES is the easiest AP. That doesn’t bode well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid is in one of these classes and doing reasonably well. Consistently in top quartile but the median grades are shockingly bad. I can tell you that of my kid’s many AP and other classes, kid reports this is the worst teacher. Not a mean or bad person - just not good at teaching this course. Finds attending class to be a waste (but still does). I bought kid all the outside AP materials. Not every family can do that. No other class has had grades this low.

All kids who are registered for AP exams have access to a full library of videos from the College Board that cover all content. They also have access to practice questions on that website. In addition, Khan Academy, Crash Course, Heimler's History, Bozeman Science videos, etc. Then there are all of the test prep books found in the school library and in the teacher's classroom. Yes, all students have access to the necessary resources (assuming their teacher does not teach them the content.)

[Anonymous]

If OP wants to let us know which AP class this is, we can probably list some resources, and/or provide some context for the scoring... It kind of seems like they have another agenda, though.