Good school with weak financials?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some schools with small endowments like Bates and Kenyon seem to have good ratings. What’s going on with Conn College? I don’t know enough about these ratings.

Small is relative - yes, smaller than other schools, particularly the most selective LACs - but they still have hundreds of millions in their endowments. Look at the Moody's ratings. Bates, for example, has an A1 rating, student demand is rising and they have rising tuition revenue. Bates also has not overspent on facilities construction (which is also a metric in the Forbes methodology). You can have a smaller endowment and have a strong rating if the school is well managed. We didn't look at Kenyon so I cannot speak to that but I'm guessing it is similar. I do remember reading that they got a huge donation not too long ago.

Kenyon endowment has grown substantially past few years thanks to a highly successful campaign by the departing President who is going to Natural History. Endowment up to $550 and they also got an anonymous $100 million gift for new dorms.

How does Oberlin have an endowment of over $1B by comparison? We're interested in Midwestern LACs and curious about this difference.

Oberlin and Denison have very high endowments for midwestern LACs in part because of some very large donors at key periods before market growth. But per capita Kenyon's endowment is pretty sizeable (Kenyon has 1700 students, Oberlin 2800).

Midwest LACs endowments are arguably "larger" than east coast in the sense that a million dollars goes further in the midwest than it does around NY Boston or Philly. Costs must be somewhat lower, salaries, etc.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some schools with small endowments like Bates and Kenyon seem to have good ratings. What’s going on with Conn College? I don’t know enough about these ratings.

Small is relative - yes, smaller than other schools, particularly the most selective LACs - but they still have hundreds of millions in their endowments. Look at the Moody's ratings. Bates, for example, has an A1 rating, student demand is rising and they have rising tuition revenue. Bates also has not overspent on facilities construction (which is also a metric in the Forbes methodology). You can have a smaller endowment and have a strong rating if the school is well managed. We didn't look at Kenyon so I cannot speak to that but I'm guessing it is similar. I do remember reading that they got a huge donation not too long ago.

Kenyon endowment has grown substantially past few years thanks to a highly successful campaign by the departing President who is going to Natural History. Endowment up to $550 and they also got an anonymous $100 million gift for new dorms.

How does Oberlin have an endowment of over $1B by comparison? We're interested in Midwestern LACs and curious about this difference.

There is a good overview of Kenyon's finances on page 18 of this document (p 19 of the pdf file). It's actually a very good overview of the school from an administrative and strategic perspective. A lot of good info.

https://www.kenyon.edu/files/resources/presidential-search-prospectus-2023.pdf

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the possibilities for my kid scores a D on this list - https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawhitford/2022/06/09/the-strongest-and-weakest-colleges-in-america---behind-forbes-2022-financial-grades/

I am worried. Would you be?

Yes many good schools are struggling and will face tougher conditions in 2026 when the 18 yr old population starts declining. Covid was also expensive for them. I filtered out schools with a C or lower. Def check the bond rating. I think of it as an investment and want the place to be around in 10 years. I also noticed a lot of schools that give large merit to attract enrollment have lower Financial grades. It is not sustainable.

+1. My SLAC is a B according to this list - and I can tell you I won't send my kids there. Covid and prior mismanagement hit it hard. I don't know what a D means

B is fine. They can still turn things around. I wouldn't go below, though.

+1

I wouldn't send my kid to a school that scores a D because the opportunities will be limited there.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some schools with small endowments like Bates and Kenyon seem to have good ratings. What’s going on with Conn College? I don’t know enough about these ratings.

Small is relative - yes, smaller than other schools, particularly the most selective LACs - but they still have hundreds of millions in their endowments. Look at the Moody's ratings. Bates, for example, has an A1 rating, student demand is rising and they have rising tuition revenue. Bates also has not overspent on facilities construction (which is also a metric in the Forbes methodology). You can have a smaller endowment and have a strong rating if the school is well managed. We didn't look at Kenyon so I cannot speak to that but I'm guessing it is similar. I do remember reading that they got a huge donation not too long ago.

Kenyon endowment has grown substantially past few years thanks to a highly successful campaign by the departing President who is going to Natural History. Endowment up to $550 and they also got an anonymous $100 million gift for new dorms.

How does Oberlin have an endowment of over $1B by comparison? We're interested in Midwestern LACs and curious about this difference.

Oberlin and Denison have very high endowments for midwestern LACs in part because of some very large donors at key periods before market growth. But per capita Kenyon's endowment is pretty sizeable (Kenyon has 1700 students, Oberlin 2800).

Agreed, and Denison has a very loyal alumni network.

Big endowments broken down into per-student figures enable institutions to create opportunities that they otherwise could not, such as e.g. paid research, paid internships, funded club sports, school-sponsored travel, etc. My Denison grad had SO many opportunities thanks to Denison's generosity with its funds.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:One of the possibilities for my kid scores a D on this list - https://www.forbes.com/sites/emmawhitford/2022/06/09/the-strongest-and-weakest-colleges-in-america---behind-forbes-2022-financial-grades/

I am worried. Would you be?

Yes many good schools are struggling and will face tougher conditions in 2026 when the 18 yr old population starts declining. Covid was also expensive for them. I filtered out schools with a C or lower. Def check the bond rating. I think of it as an investment and want the place to be around in 10 years. I also noticed a lot of schools that give large merit to attract enrollment have lower Financial grades. It is not sustainable.

+1. My SLAC is a B according to this list - and I can tell you I won't send my kids there. Covid and prior mismanagement hit it hard. I don't know what a D means

B is fine. They can still turn things around. I wouldn't go below, though.

Poor Moody's rating too. Covid really slammed it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m surprised Sarah Lawrence is in so much trouble (at least according to Forbes)

You should not confuse wealthy students with a wealthy school.

Sarah Lawrence has been in financial need for a couple of decades at least. A common saying is that: "Sarah Lawrence needs every tuition dollar that it can get."

For anyone who takes the time to read their financial filings, they would see that the school is certainly not in financial need, at least not today or in recent years.

The balance sheet indicates cash and marketable securities of $169 million with outstanding long-term debt of $87 million. Aside from that, there are no major debts which stand out. This is not an enterprise that is having financial difficulties.

The basis for the Forbes rating in the referenced article is suspect, throwing in parameters that really have no bearing on the financial strength of the institution. Who cares about the acceptance yield? You fill a cohort, that's all that matters.

[Anonymous]

It’s probably a sign full pay will help!

[Anonymous]

The tree Socrates taught under was chopped down a long time ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m surprised Sarah Lawrence is in so much trouble (at least according to Forbes)

You should not confuse wealthy students with a wealthy school.

Sarah Lawrence has been in financial need for a couple of decades at least. A common saying is that: "Sarah Lawrence needs every tuition dollar that it can get."

For anyone who takes the time to read their financial filings, they would see that the school is certainly not in financial need, at least not today or in recent years.

The balance sheet indicates cash and marketable securities of $169 million with outstanding long-term debt of $87 million. Aside from that, there are no major debts which stand out. This is not an enterprise that is having financial difficulties.

The basis for the Forbes rating in the referenced article is suspect, throwing in parameters that really have no bearing on the financial strength of the institution. Who cares about the acceptance yield? You fill a cohort, that's all that matters.

Their endowment per student is 80k. That's not good

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I’m surprised Sarah Lawrence is in so much trouble (at least according to Forbes)

That school is a train wreck. Tiny endowment and every building looks like they are at least 40 years behind on deferred maintenance.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m surprised Sarah Lawrence is in so much trouble (at least according to Forbes)

Maybe we will have a NYC campus of Northeastern soon....

Northeastern itself is basically a house of cards. Ready to fall.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m surprised Sarah Lawrence is in so much trouble (at least according to Forbes)

Maybe we will have a NYC campus of Northeastern soon....

Northeastern itself is basically a house of cards. Ready to fall.

They brought Marymount Manhattan under their umbrella earlier this year. So they DO now have a nyc campus

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some schools with small endowments like Bates and Kenyon seem to have good ratings. What’s going on with Conn College? I don’t know enough about these ratings.

Small is relative - yes, smaller than other schools, particularly the most selective LACs - but they still have hundreds of millions in their endowments. Look at the Moody's ratings. Bates, for example, has an A1 rating, student demand is rising and they have rising tuition revenue. Bates also has not overspent on facilities construction (which is also a metric in the Forbes methodology). You can have a smaller endowment and have a strong rating if the school is well managed. We didn't look at Kenyon so I cannot speak to that but I'm guessing it is similar. I do remember reading that they got a huge donation not too long ago.

Kenyon endowment has grown substantially past few years thanks to a highly successful campaign by the departing President who is going to Natural History. Endowment up to $550 and they also got an anonymous $100 million gift for new dorms.

How does Oberlin have an endowment of over $1B by comparison? We're interested in Midwestern LACs and curious about this difference.

It's well over a billion. The bulk of it grew out of a gift many years ago from Charles Hall, who developed the aluminum reduction process that allowed the commercial processing and production of alum8num. His research began while an Oberlin student and he went on to cofound Alcoa. He left much of his fortune to Oberlin.

His gift is a big reason why the college has so many architecturally exceptional buildings ( many designed by the architecu who did the Supreme Court) from when the nain campus was built a century ago. And it is such an amazing resource for the college now. Huge benefits.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some schools with small endowments like Bates and Kenyon seem to have good ratings. What’s going on with Conn College? I don’t know enough about these ratings.

Small is relative - yes, smaller than other schools, particularly the most selective LACs - but they still have hundreds of millions in their endowments. Look at the Moody's ratings. Bates, for example, has an A1 rating, student demand is rising and they have rising tuition revenue. Bates also has not overspent on facilities construction (which is also a metric in the Forbes methodology). You can have a smaller endowment and have a strong rating if the school is well managed. We didn't look at Kenyon so I cannot speak to that but I'm guessing it is similar. I do remember reading that they got a huge donation not too long ago.

Kenyon endowment has grown substantially past few years thanks to a highly successful campaign by the departing President who is going to Natural History. Endowment up to $550 and they also got an anonymous $100 million gift for new dorms.

How does Oberlin have an endowment of over $1B by comparison? We're interested in Midwestern LACs and curious about this difference.

It's well over a billion. The bulk of it grew out of a gift many years ago from Charles Hall, who developed the aluminum reduction process that allowed the commercial processing and production of alum8num. His research began while an Oberlin student and he went on to cofound Alcoa. He left much of his fortune to Oberlin.

His gift is a big reason why the college has so many architecturally exceptional buildings ( many designed by the architecu who did the Supreme Court) from when the nain campus was built a century ago. And it is such an amazing resource for the college now. Huge benefits.

Definitely a better origin story for a college endowment than a couple of colleges benefitting from cigarette fortunes. Or worse, from the slavev trade.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What’s going on at ODU such that it has a D? It stood out to me among the many small, private, and/or religious affiliated schools.

RPI is the one that stood out to me.

OP here - yes, that's the one. Moody's says A3. That studentaid.gov number (from 2019-20) is a 2.9.

I know about the Summer Arch program, and I'm a little concerned about future initiatives.

Yeah, it has a great academic reputation, but apparently not the best financial situation. That would worry me, especially given the cost.

ODU shouldn't even be on the list. It's a public university. The Commonwealth backs it