Why is walkability to public schools & stores so hard to find?

[Anonymous]

We have this now, but we moved to the rust belt.

[Anonymous]

Where are you looking, OP. A general area would allow us to actually help you.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Town of Vienna baby!
When we toured we were told kids walk to ES (one of 3) and high school. They were not able to walk to MS, because it was 2-3 miles away depending on “neighborhood” - 10 min drive at 35 mph through the neighborhoods and with the stop lights.

We didn’t buy there, but it was intriguing.

Also grocery stores, dentist, pediatrician, nail salons, restaurants, etc are all less than a mile away.

I don't think Vienna is what people think of when they talk about walkability. Yes, you can technically walk down Maple Ave, aka Chain Bridge Rd, aka Highway 123 to get a long series of strip malls, but people don't really do that all that much. You can walk/bike down W&OD, but most people don't want to walk that far and that doesn't give a lot of options that are close by. And then the schools are pretty spread out. So, yeah, I think Vienna is definitely a car-centric place.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The short answer to your question is 50+ years of poor urban planning and car-centric design. In most cases, the decision to make things unwalkable was very much on purpose. We've (mostly) realized the error of that approach by now, but walkable spaces are now pretty scarce outside of pre-WWII neighborhoods, and they're enough in demand that they go for a large price premium even though walkability doesn't really cost more to build.

We're starting to retrofit walkable infrastructure into suburban neighborhoods, but it'll take decades, and we're limited with what can be done within the constraints of many of the choices that are already baked in.

Ding ding ding. Basically op, it’s literally illegal to build walkable neighborhoods in most of America. That’s the reason AU Park is so absurdly expensive

I'm sorry... ILLEGAL??
Please cite your sources or explain.

Yes, literally illegal. do you understand that land use regulations and zoning codes exist?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Much of the area zoned to Murch is walkable to stores and all three schools! But agree this is super hard to find.

Zoned to where?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because schools are big. ES have 500+ kids instead of small ones. And it only gets bigger from there.

+1

Everything is on a massive scale.

Yes. And even if you do find something walkable it's very rare to be walkable to ES and MS and HS.

And if you ARE walkable to all 3, there's no way you're walkable to stores too.

The only two that I can think of are North Chevy Chase Elementary & Ashburton Elementary -- they're both walkable to stores less than a mile away... maybe Cabin John too?

Parts of Kensington are technically walkable to downtown and also ES, MS, and HS. I’m just a tad bit too north to make it convenient but it’s technically possible.

+1. We walk to elementary (OTES) and grocery (Safeway in Kensington or Giant in Wheaton) and technically could walk to MS and HS (but probably wouldn’t cross University Ave to do it).

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The short answer to your question is 50+ years of poor urban planning and car-centric design. In most cases, the decision to make things unwalkable was very much on purpose. We've (mostly) realized the error of that approach by now, but walkable spaces are now pretty scarce outside of pre-WWII neighborhoods, and they're enough in demand that they go for a large price premium even though walkability doesn't really cost more to build.

We're starting to retrofit walkable infrastructure into suburban neighborhoods, but it'll take decades, and we're limited with what can be done within the constraints of many of the choices that are already baked in.

Ding ding ding. Basically op, it’s literally illegal to build walkable neighborhoods in most of America. That’s the reason AU Park is so absurdly expensive

I'm sorry... ILLEGAL??
Please cite your sources or explain.

Yes, literally illegal. do you understand that land use regulations and zoning codes exist?

Clarify how zoning makes it illegal to build walkable neighborhoods.

[Anonymous]

Many areas of Takoma Park are walkable to ES and MS, and to various stores and restaurants. As someone said upthread, Kensington has parts that are similar. Not many parts of the suburbs though have that small town feel/design, so walkability is not a common feature.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The short answer to your question is 50+ years of poor urban planning and car-centric design. In most cases, the decision to make things unwalkable was very much on purpose. We've (mostly) realized the error of that approach by now, but walkable spaces are now pretty scarce outside of pre-WWII neighborhoods, and they're enough in demand that they go for a large price premium even though walkability doesn't really cost more to build.

We're starting to retrofit walkable infrastructure into suburban neighborhoods, but it'll take decades, and we're limited with what can be done within the constraints of many of the choices that are already baked in.

Ding ding ding. Basically op, it’s literally illegal to build walkable neighborhoods in most of America. That’s the reason AU Park is so absurdly expensive

I'm sorry... ILLEGAL??
Please cite your sources or explain.

I'm the PP they were responding to (not the poster who said it's illegal), but they're not being inaccurate. Minimum lot size and occupancy regulations often make it impossible to build anything that we would think of as walkable in any kind of practical sense. In many jurisdictions, sidewalks are still not required consistently, which makes walking difficult. Regulations often require roads to be built in ways that prioritize car throughout but make walking unpleasant or dangerous. It may not be illegal to walk, but laws and regulations often make it illegal to build anyplace where you would want to.

NP here. Our built environment is also the product of historical racism. Black neighborhoods were destroyed by highways leading to car dependent sprawl for white people. Proponents of the car industry ripped up public transportation in favor of roads and tried to make SFH areas inaccessible except by car.

Also traditional development had always been more like a spoke and hub. That is why older cities have so many bedroom communities which have their own little downtowns, and then those little communities are transit accessible to the bigger community. Also, roads used to be built in grid patterns.

But then some rich guys who had a personal interest in making the US car dependent decided we should build retail, housing, and job centers in different locations. Add in some cul de sacs and lack of connected roads, everyone must commute on the major parkways. When those get backed up, you are essentially stuck. I don’t know how we even begin to undo it, but I find large swaths of outside the beltway to be so horrifically unattractive. Anytime I find myself visiting family out there and driving on the Fairfax County Parkway or crawling along the strip malls off route 50, it feels so utterly depressing. And I can’t even imagine living in a townhouse right off some major Loudoun County road with cloud storage buildings all around. We have made this country so damn ugly in the name of car worship.

[Anonymous]

Takoma Park is walkable for K-8 and shops and a close community.

[Anonymous]

We live in an "undesirable " neighborhood in S. Arlington. We can walk to ES and Shirlington (so restaurants, groceries ans the movie theater). We can bike to the MS ans HS easily (and could wall if we weren't always rushed lol).

We also often go fishing in the stream near us. But again "undesirable " neighborhood.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because schools are big. ES have 500+ kids instead of small ones. And it only gets bigger from there.

+1

Everything is on a massive scale.

Yes. And even if you do find something walkable it's very rare to be walkable to ES and MS and HS.

My kids had a bus to ES but are walkable to MS and HS and I really appreciate that. ES kids still need parents to take them to/from school so the walkability is of limited value IMO. But the independence for teens in getting to/from school has been great.

??? My children walked/biked/scooted/took the bus to their ES school starting in 1st grade. Can't imagine taking them to school through ES if it was walkable...

[Anonymous]

The short answer is because of lack of density. In a SFH environment, only a few houses can be close enough to what you want to walk to it.

I live in Pimmit Hills in 22043, which is walkable by the suburban definition of the word. Kids walk and bike to their ES, we walk to metro, library, parks and CAN walk to several grocery stores but we obviously don't walk to stores because I don't want to carry my shopping on foot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We live in an "undesirable " neighborhood in S. Arlington. We can walk to ES and Shirlington (so restaurants, groceries ans the movie theater). We can bike to the MS ans HS easily (and could wall if we weren't always rushed lol).

We also often go fishing in the stream near us. But again "undesirable " neighborhood.

South Arlington looks so drab and poor and run down.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Because schools are big. ES have 500+ kids instead of small ones. And it only gets bigger from there.

+1

Everything is on a massive scale.

Yes. And even if you do find something walkable it's very rare to be walkable to ES and MS and HS.

My kids had a bus to ES but are walkable to MS and HS and I really appreciate that. ES kids still need parents to take them to/from school so the walkability is of limited value IMO. But the independence for teens in getting to/from school has been great.

??? My children walked/biked/scooted/took the bus to their ES school starting in 1st grade. Can't imagine taking them to school through ES if it was walkable...

My kids took the bus but I didn't know a single child who walked to ES without a parent before 4th or 5th grade. I agree that kids should be able to get to school on their own but, at least in our area, it is not at all socially acceptable to allow a k-3rd grader to walk to school unattended.