Tutoring to get ready for immersion program?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Reading is a blind spot for me. I taught myself to read a few years before school so I was given different work while other kids learned to read. I thought kids learned in first or second grade, definitely not kindergarten, but I never had the same work as my peers in English then so I really don’t know. If I had been aware that kids are expected to read by 1st grade, I would have just taught him before K. They should make this clear to parents. Honestly, I don’t understand the work I see coming home from school as being an effective way to teach reading. DS doesn’t seem to have issues in math.

Thanks for the reading input, I’ll work on it and see where we are at the end of the year and then reassess.

In terms on “skills for immersion”, I agree that Japanese is a difficult language. The three alphabets are unique to that language. If it was not Japanese, I would put him in. Many of the other languages start in K and it’s not like they know who’s a self starter at that time. Nevermind the kids who go to school not speaking English and get “immersed” that way.

JI Mom here. Yes, Japanese is challenging but the schools who have the program have had success teaching it. They break things down into decent sized chunks. The alphabets are taught over a period of years, not weeks. They have been running this program for a long time and have had many successful students. Also, the number of immersion programs in my area, FCPS, start in 1rst grade, only a few start in K. Sign up for the lottery and give it a go. You can change programs if you need to. Especially if the program is at your base school. I would be more cautious if I was going to need my child to change schools if they left the program.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He can’t read at all and it’s February of Kindergarten? That would concern me. I wouldn’t be rushing to immersion.

+1. Your kid isn’t reading English yet. You want to put him in an immersion program in one of the hardest languages to learn in 1st? Don’t the programs start in K so he would already be behind? Lastly, the teacher doesn’t recommend him for the program.

I think it’s a bad idea.

Sorry to be obtuse, are kids reading in kindergarten? What they seem to be covering in school now is sight words. They have covered 20 - I don’t get a book like another parent mentioned (that would be awesome lol), I had to go through all the class newsletters and compile a list. DS can read 10 of the 20 words. To me that seems normal because memorizing site words is boring. I just started working on those when the teacher told me she wouldn’t recommend him this week, I’m sure I can get him up to speed in a few weeks. As far as I l know they haven’t covered phonics other than letter sounds, which he knew before he went to kindergarten.

Yes most parents know their kids are ahead by K. I knew with both my kids already. They were reading at a DRA 3-4 by the end of K. And around a 2 by Feb. they completed all their work on time and we didn’t have behavior issues. I knew they were AAP bound as well.
That is a huge red flag to me. Kids are supposed to be at a DRA 3 or 4 by the end of K in FCPS. You should be having your child practicing reading every night at this age. You can get BOB books at the library.

Your child is absolutely not a good candidate for immersion, I’m sorry. Immersion kids are typically high achieving kids and self motivators.

Half the kids at our school are in immersion. I seriously doubt that the parents knew that their kid was high achieving or self motivated at 6. It is more that the parents liked the idea of the program and we were willing to accept the additional work that the kids needed to do, DS had homework for LA and Japanese in first grade.

Kids that were not a great fit, because they were struggling with concentration or one of the core subjects, left for Gen Ed. It wasn’t a big deal for the kids to switch groups.

We used the Bob books for reading, we started in Pre School because DS was interested. He was reading by the end of K and he happens to love math. I think the K Teachers tend to have a good idea about what kids will be successful in immersion and who might struggle but there are always exceptions to the rule.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He can’t read at all and it’s February of Kindergarten? That would concern me. I wouldn’t be rushing to immersion.

+1. Your kid isn’t reading English yet. You want to put him in an immersion program in one of the hardest languages to learn in 1st? Don’t the programs start in K so he would already be behind? Lastly, the teacher doesn’t recommend him for the program.

I think it’s a bad idea.

Sorry to be obtuse, are kids reading in kindergarten? What they seem to be covering in school now is sight words. They have covered 20 - I don’t get a book like another parent mentioned (that would be awesome lol), I had to go through all the class newsletters and compile a list. DS can read 10 of the 20 words. To me that seems normal because memorizing site words is boring. I just started working on those when the teacher told me she wouldn’t recommend him this week, I’m sure I can get him up to speed in a few weeks. As far as I l know they haven’t covered phonics other than letter sounds, which he knew before he went to kindergarten.

Yes most parents know their kids are ahead by K. I knew with both my kids already. They were reading at a DRA 3-4 by the end of K. And around a 2 by Feb. they completed all their work on time and we didn’t have behavior issues. I knew they were AAP bound as well.
That is a huge red flag to me. Kids are supposed to be at a DRA 3 or 4 by the end of K in FCPS. You should be having your child practicing reading every night at this age. You can get BOB books at the library.

Your child is absolutely not a good candidate for immersion, I’m sorry. Immersion kids are typically high achieving kids and self motivators.

Half the kids at our school are in immersion. I seriously doubt that the parents knew that their kid was high achieving or self motivated at 6. It is more that the parents liked the idea of the program and we were willing to accept the additional work that the kids needed to do, DS had homework for LA and Japanese in first grade.

Kids that were not a great fit, because they were struggling with concentration or one of the core subjects, left for Gen Ed. It wasn’t a big deal for the kids to switch groups.

We used the Bob books for reading, we started in Pre School because DS was interested. He was reading by the end of K and he happens to love math. I think the K Teachers tend to have a good idea about what kids will be successful in immersion and who might struggle but there are always exceptions to the rule.

Well OP kid’s teacher would not recommend him for the program, and she also said he needs a lot of redirection so sounds like focusing and paying attention is not his strength.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids don’t need special skills or talents to be in immersion. Where did all the PPs get that idea?? My kids started in immersion in K. The point is that kids pick up language much, much more easily when young, whether those kids are fast, slow, whatever.
And it is developmentally normal for a kid to read later than age 5. Not every kid is ready to read at age 5.

I don’t think kids need special skills for immersion. The point is that OP’s child seems to below average already in his native language. As a parent, I’d want my kid to work on his English literacy skills more than enter a language immersion program.

This. Learning another language is great but not at the expense of the essentials which is reading and math.

I mean, in many parts of the world, learning multiple languages from the start of school is the norm for all kids. Not something only for advanced kids. Only in the US do we think of it as something special/extra. I’ve got a child with dyslexia in an immersion program. It is not holding her back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:He can’t read at all and it’s February of Kindergarten? That would concern me. I wouldn’t be rushing to immersion.

+1. Your kid isn’t reading English yet. You want to put him in an immersion program in one of the hardest languages to learn in 1st? Don’t the programs start in K so he would already be behind? Lastly, the teacher doesn’t recommend him for the program.

I think it’s a bad idea.

Sorry to be obtuse, are kids reading in kindergarten? What they seem to be covering in school now is sight words. They have covered 20 - I don’t get a book like another parent mentioned (that would be awesome lol), I had to go through all the class newsletters and compile a list. DS can read 10 of the 20 words. To me that seems normal because memorizing site words is boring. I just started working on those when the teacher told me she wouldn’t recommend him this week, I’m sure I can get him up to speed in a few weeks. As far as I l know they haven’t covered phonics other than letter sounds, which he knew before he went to kindergarten.

Yes most parents know their kids are ahead by K. I knew with both my kids already. They were reading at a DRA 3-4 by the end of K. And around a 2 by Feb. they completed all their work on time and we didn’t have behavior issues. I knew they were AAP bound as well.
That is a huge red flag to me. Kids are supposed to be at a DRA 3 or 4 by the end of K in FCPS. You should be having your child practicing reading every night at this age. You can get BOB books at the library.

Your child is absolutely not a good candidate for immersion, I’m sorry. Immersion kids are typically high achieving kids and self motivators.

Half the kids at our school are in immersion. I seriously doubt that the parents knew that their kid was high achieving or self motivated at 6. It is more that the parents liked the idea of the program and we were willing to accept the additional work that the kids needed to do, DS had homework for LA and Japanese in first grade.

Kids that were not a great fit, because they were struggling with concentration or one of the core subjects, left for Gen Ed. It wasn’t a big deal for the kids to switch groups.

We used the Bob books for reading, we started in Pre School because DS was interested. He was reading by the end of K and he happens to love math. I think the K Teachers tend to have a good idea about what kids will be successful in immersion and who might struggle but there are always exceptions to the rule.

Well OP kid’s teacher would not recommend him for the program, and she also said he needs a lot of redirection so sounds like focusing and paying attention is not his strength.

Teachers don’t always get it right. I know there are a few kids in DS class whose parents were told it wouldn’t work for the same reasons and it did. Other kids who were fine with focus and attention moved to the Gen Ed classroom. There is no real harm in trying the program out. Maybe it works and maybe it doesn’t but the child is 5, maybe 6. There is a lot of room for uncertainty.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Also, another parent mentioned Mandarin. Mandarin is a great candidate for immersion as it’s not a “tough” language. What makes it hard for English speakers are the tones which are hard to hear if you’re not used to a tonal language. This could be learned more easily in early immersion. Grammar is very easy, the alphabet is tough but can be taught just like the kids are learning sight words today.

Spoken Mandarin is actually not too difficult. It’s learning the characters.

Hànzì is BRUTAL. Highly educated Chinese people living in China forget how to write common characters.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids don’t need special skills or talents to be in immersion. Where did all the PPs get that idea?? My kids started in immersion in K. The point is that kids pick up language much, much more easily when young, whether those kids are fast, slow, whatever.
And it is developmentally normal for a kid to read later than age 5. Not every kid is ready to read at age 5.

I don’t think kids need special skills for immersion. The point is that OP’s child seems to below average already in his native language. As a parent, I’d want my kid to work on his English literacy skills more than enter a language immersion program.

This. Learning another language is great but not at the expense of the essentials which is reading and math.

I mean, in many parts of the world, learning multiple languages from the start of school is the norm for all kids. Not something only for advanced kids. Only in the US do we think of it as something special/extra. I’ve got a child with dyslexia in an immersion program. It is not holding her back.

Let me guess, your kid is in K, 1st early elementary.

You say learning another language is common in other countries OK but it’s not the norm here. Kids in immersion do much more work than kids in a traditional classroom.

They need to master the basics, English, math, science, etc.. They also have work on the language - comprehending, speaking, reading, and writing. Do you speak the language at home? If not, how are you going to support them when they need help or struggling? You will need to get a tutor. As you get higher up in the grades, the expectations, at least at our school, ramps up significantly in the language. K, 1st is easy, not so much in 3rd, 4th. And if they are struggling in the language, they will struggle in the core subjects taught in the language due to poor comprehension.

Now imagine that they are struggling with English reading which then would imply weakness in English writing and spelling too. So you have to supplement in these subjects too and try to catch them up. If they were not in immersion, they would be getting twice the instruction.

If they are struggling in math, then you will need to help supplement. They will struggle even more if they are weak in the language because they won’t understand everything that is being taught. It becomes a vicious cycle of falling further behind.

Then you kid may resent having to learn the language and don’t want to do anything in the language.

Above is why so many families pull their kids out of immersion. It’s a lot of work, especially as you get higher up in the grades and the demands and expectations ramp up a lot. As I said before, the kids who do best are the ones who pick things up easily and quickly in core subjects so they don’t need to spend so much time juggling that and the language.

Of course there are exceptions to everything. But just know that if your kid is struggling in core subjects and is in immersion, it’s twice the uphill battle to try to catch up.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Kids don’t need special skills or talents to be in immersion. Where did all the PPs get that idea?? My kids started in immersion in K. The point is that kids pick up language much, much more easily when young, whether those kids are fast, slow, whatever.
And it is developmentally normal for a kid to read later than age 5. Not every kid is ready to read at age 5.

I don’t think kids need special skills for immersion. The point is that OP’s child seems to below average already in his native language. As a parent, I’d want my kid to work on his English literacy skills more than enter a language immersion program.

This. Learning another language is great but not at the expense of the essentials which is reading and math.

I mean, in many parts of the world, learning multiple languages from the start of school is the norm for all kids. Not something only for advanced kids. Only in the US do we think of it as something special/extra. I’ve got a child with dyslexia in an immersion program. It is not holding her back.

Let me guess, your kid is in K, 1st early elementary.

You say learning another language is common in other countries OK but it’s not the norm here. Kids in immersion do much more work than kids in a traditional classroom.

They need to master the basics, English, math, science, etc.. They also have work on the language - comprehending, speaking, reading, and writing. Do you speak the language at home? If not, how are you going to support them when they need help or struggling? You will need to get a tutor. As you get higher up in the grades, the expectations, at least at our school, ramps up significantly in the language. K, 1st is easy, not so much in 3rd, 4th. And if they are struggling in the language, they will struggle in the core subjects taught in the language due to poor comprehension.

Now imagine that they are struggling with English reading which then would imply weakness in English writing and spelling too. So you have to supplement in these subjects too and try to catch them up. If they were not in immersion, they would be getting twice the instruction.

If they are struggling in math, then you will need to help supplement. They will struggle even more if they are weak in the language because they won’t understand everything that is being taught. It becomes a vicious cycle of falling further behind.

Then you kid may resent having to learn the language and don’t want to do anything in the language.

Above is why so many families pull their kids out of immersion. It’s a lot of work, especially as you get higher up in the grades and the demands and expectations ramp up a lot. As I said before, the kids who do best are the ones who pick things up easily and quickly in core subjects so they don’t need to spend so much time juggling that and the language.

Of course there are exceptions to everything. But just know that if your kid is struggling in core subjects and is in immersion, it’s twice the uphill battle to try to catch up.

Immersion is more work, 100%. DS had homework when Gen Ed kids did not. And we don't speak the language so we cannot help him with the language. He is doing fine in math and science. He attends RSM because he likes math and he is in the Honors class with RSM so I am pretty comfortable that he is not behind in math.

We have had friends leave the program and none of them seem to regret that their kid had given the program a go. I do know some people who were caught off guard that their kid needed help with math or reading or something along those lines during ES. They did have to choose between a tutor or leaving the program. Different people made different choices. But the language immersion open houses that the school held always made it clear that LI was more work for a variety of reasons and that there were different behavioral expectations in the classroom.

I would hope that OP is aware of those issues and making the best decision she can based on her kid. She can also put her kid into the lottery and turn down a seat if she decides at the end of the year that it might be too much for her child. We know 2 families who pulled their child after the back to school night meeting with the First Grade Teachers. All of that is fine.

I just don't think that there is a cut and dried definition of what child will do well in LI and what child won't. And I think that there is room for a parent to experiment and pull a kid if it doesn't work. I would say that it is probably easier to make the decision to try it and change classes if it is the child's base school because then you are not dealing with changing schools.