Stats and college admissions

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GPA is the most important quantitative value in application. SAT not so much. University of California system will not even look at your SAT.

If WGPA is only 3.80. But SAT is 1500+. You need to have a lot of explaining to do.

Really? GPA is that important? It seems like a standardized test would be more important, no?

Yes, GPA is more important than tests but not just GPA but the overall transcript as PP's example shows. One GPA number can mean a lot of things but the most important is what classes did you take and what grades did you get in them. What are the trends? What was offered vs. what you took? Where did you challenge yourself with more rigor?

[Anonymous]

I think the kid should focus on trying to explain in an essay on the application why 2Bs for 1A is not representative of his ability vs the SAT score. Or perhaps it was just a few grades of C that caused the drop.
Perhaps explaining that they chose some tougher courses along with extracurriculars. Maybe some of the teachers were very tough but then gave out extra credit which the kid did not have time for.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I think the kid should focus on trying to explain in an essay on the application why 2Bs for 1A is not representative of his ability vs the SAT score. Or perhaps it was just a few grades of C that caused the drop.
Perhaps explaining that they chose some tougher courses along with extracurriculars. Maybe some of the teachers were very tough but then gave out extra credit which the kid did not have time for.

Just go to England. Won’t look at grades at all — only SATs and APs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GPA is the most important quantitative value in application. SAT not so much. University of California system will not even look at your SAT.

If WGPA is only 3.80. But SAT is 1500+. You need to have a lot of explaining to do.

Really? GPA is that important? It seems like a standardized test would be more important, no?

No

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:GPA is the most important quantitative value in application. SAT not so much. University of California system will not even look at your SAT.

If WGPA is only 3.80. But SAT is 1500+. You need to have a lot of explaining to do.

Really? GPA is that important? It seems like a standardized test would be more important, no?

Yes, GPA is more important than tests but not just GPA but the overall transcript as PP's example shows. One GPA number can mean a lot of things but the most important is what classes did you take and what grades did you get in them. What are the trends? What was offered vs. what you took? Where did you challenge yourself with more rigor?

My kid is telling me that your transcript will tell a lot than only GPA. If someone has school discipline action in any of years, it will stay there and it will hurt applications.

One more suggestion: community service and extra school activities are more important than SAT/AP tests. We only understand this after we finish all applications.

[Anonymous]

Suggest looking at Pitt and JMU.

Also suggest that you consider whether there is underlying ADHD. I say this as a parent of an extremely bright student with ADHD, I had zero idea until I got the diagnosis (and I was not looking for it or expecting it at all) and realize in retrospect this was me.

Just saying, I don't think your kid is lazy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Suggest looking at Pitt and JMU.

Also suggest that you consider whether there is underlying ADHD. I say this as a parent of an extremely bright student with ADHD, I had zero idea until I got the diagnosis (and I was not looking for it or expecting it at all) and realize in retrospect this was me.

Just saying, I don't think your kid is lazy.

OP. Others have suggested this recently. We certainly want to address it before he heads off to college. If you have a doctor you'd recommend in this area, I'd highly appreciate it.

[Anonymous]

Just out of curiosity, is the SAT still out of 1600? Back when I was in high school in tht late 90s if you got anything above a 1200 that was considered great. Is the SAT easier now? What gives?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Just out of curiosity, is the SAT still out of 1600? Back when I was in high school in tht late 90s if you got anything above a 1200 that was considered great. Is the SAT easier now? What gives?

It is out of 1600. It was out of 2400 prior to this. In addition to the exams getting easier (based on hearsay; haven't done a compare between then and now), the increased level of competition has made the scores higher.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OMG. She has a weighted 3.8 and you people are suggesting a learning disability? Never change, DCUM.

Depends on what the typical range is for the HS. An almost all Bs student with a 1500+ SAT is going to raise some questions.

What questions does it raise, besides "how much tutoring did you get?" and "how many times did you take the test?" (Questions that could be asked of anyone with a 1500+.)

Exactly.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:DS is a junior who will likely end up with a 3.3+/3.8+ GPA (9 APs). SAT is 1540. A lot of schools are out of his range when you look at just the GPA. We are in a quandry as to where to apply.

For example, Clemson has an average GPA of 4.39 (source: collegevine) for the 2021 cycle. What kind of kids populate the group below that average? URMs? Women? athletes? or will someone like my kid - low GPA but high SAT and rigorous curriculum be part of that pool. Using Clemson as an example. DS wants to pursue a major in a CS-adjacent field - Data science, Information Systems, etc. but not interested in full CS.

Don’t box yourself in by stats. Be realistic but apply to a decent number of reaches plus a few kids plus a few safeties. You never know.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Suggest looking at Pitt and JMU.

Also suggest that you consider whether there is underlying ADHD. I say this as a parent of an extremely bright student with ADHD, I had zero idea until I got the diagnosis (and I was not looking for it or expecting it at all) and realize in retrospect this was me.

Just saying, I don't think your kid is lazy.

OP. Others have suggested this recently. We certainly want to address it before he heads off to college. If you have a doctor you'd recommend in this area, I'd highly appreciate it.

Adolescent mental health care is a really challenging area and you may receive better suggestions on the special needs board. I got very lucky because I received a recommendation/referral from our pediatrician to the adolescent psychiatry department at Georgetown, the key words I said was that the unidentified issues were affecting her learning and I wanted a neuropsychologist workup, which was accurate but noting the affect on academics is important, and our pediatrician was also part of Georgetown Medstar. If your child's doctor is part of a larger system that may help. I tried Children's early on and could not get an appointment because we did not go to primary care within that system, which is when I turned to our pediatrician for a referral. The whole process took a couple of months and they then set her up with a psychiatrist. There are also private options to get the workup outside insurance but they are pricey/

There are also programs that focus on executive function coaching. ADHD looks very different in different kids, but generally reflects a combination of executive functioning deficits. Understanding that you think differently and have to build skills can be very empowering to kids too.

Good luck.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Suggest looking at Pitt and JMU.

Also suggest that you consider whether there is underlying ADHD. I say this as a parent of an extremely bright student with ADHD, I had zero idea until I got the diagnosis (and I was not looking for it or expecting it at all) and realize in retrospect this was me.

Just saying, I don't think your kid is lazy.

OP. Others have suggested this recently. We certainly want to address it before he heads off to college. If you have a doctor you'd recommend in this area, I'd highly appreciate it.

Adolescent mental health care is a really challenging area and you may receive better suggestions on the special needs board. I got very lucky because I received a recommendation/referral from our pediatrician to the adolescent psychiatry department at Georgetown, the key words I said was that the unidentified issues were affecting her learning and I wanted a neuropsychologist workup, which was accurate but noting the affect on academics is important, and our pediatrician was also part of Georgetown Medstar. If your child's doctor is part of a larger system that may help. I tried Children's early on and could not get an appointment because we did not go to primary care within that system, which is when I turned to our pediatrician for a referral. The whole process took a couple of months and they then set her up with a psychiatrist. There are also private options to get the workup outside insurance but they are pricey/

There are also programs that focus on executive function coaching. ADHD looks very different in different kids, but generally reflects a combination of executive functioning deficits. Understanding that you think differently and have to build skills can be very empowering to kids too.

Good luck.

Thank you!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Just out of curiosity, is the SAT still out of 1600? Back when I was in high school in tht late 90s if you got anything above a 1200 that was considered great. Is the SAT easier now? What gives?

It is out of 1600. It was out of 2400 prior to this. In addition to the exams getting easier (based on hearsay; haven't done a compare between then and now), the increased level of competition has made the scores higher.

It's not hearsay-- I can't link to the academic studies because the research is behind paywalls but here is a report from North Carolina (https://studylib.net/doc/10700128/table-of-contents) and an Education Week (https://www.edweek.org/education/s-a-t-to-realign-scores-for-first-time-in-half-a-century/1994/06) article that explains what happened. The 1995 recentering shifted the average score 80 points on the verbal section and 50 on the math, i.e. students who took the SAT prior to 1995 would score at least 130 points higher if they took it after the recentering. The 2005 changes eliminated content in the test that was considered biased and correlated with IQ tests.

Excerpt:

"In 1995, the Educational Testing Service changed the test’s name from the Scholastic AptitudeTest to the Scholastic Assessment Test. ETS aimed to retain the original acronym, while dispelling thenumerous objections to the test being called an ‘aptitude’ test. Currently, the test is called the SAT, anacronym without any specific word association. Also in 1995, the SAT’s score scale was recentered due to increased diversity of the college-bound senior population. The original SAT Verbal and Mathematics scales derived their universal meaning from a 1941 reference group of slightly more than 10,000 test takers, which was much less heterogeneous than the college-bound senior population in 1990. Because the universal meaning of the SAT scores had changed with the shift in the reference population from 1941 to 1990, the scales required recalibration (recentering). Recentering the SAT scales resulted in two major changes: (1) The average scores for both the SAT I Verbal and Mathematics tests were reestablished at about 500 – the midpoint of the 200-800 scale; and (2) Verbal and Mathematics scales were aligned so that Verbal and Mathematics scores could be compared directly. Prior to recentering, Verbal and Mathematics scores could be compared only by looking at percentiles.

In 2005, a new SAT will be administered, which will differ from the current test in three major areas: writing, mathematics, and verbal. A writing test will be included for the first time and will include multiple-choice items, grammar usage questions, and a written essay. The math test will include Algebra II content, and the quantitative comparisons will be eliminated. The Verbal test will be re-named “Critical Reading” and will include the addition of shorter reading passages to the existing long reading passages. Analogies will be eliminated. The maximum total score on the new SAT will be 2400, 800 points for each of the three areas."

[Anonymous]

I assume your kid is at a DMV public school? At our kids' Big 3 that SAT and GPA- depending on the rigor of your kids classes, would not eliminate any school. At our school where grade deflation is rampant, kids with 3.3's and high SAT still regularly get into Michigan, Emory, Haverford, Williams even Cornell. Probably not high Ivy's unless hooked- then yes.