Hook

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But to answer the question, for some lesser known schools, being a legacy (but not giving money) might be an advantage (stats otherwise being acceptable) because the school thinks perhaps admission may make you give more money.

But in general for the more elite schools, yes, they want to see substantial giving. A history of it. Seven figures or a building-sized gift.

Being a legacy but not giving money can help at MANY schools, not just lesser known ones. The case against Harvard revealed that the legacy admission rate was above 30%.

OK, but my high-stats kid was applying to Harvard and got a soft rejection. We were told seven figures. We gave - oh - maybe 1 figure

if you think that 30% of legacy applicants were giving 7 figures, you're grasping for straws.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are specific instruments really a hook? My kid is very good at a difficult instrument (Interlochen, regional orchestras) but it was my impression this wouldn't matter for admissions (or at least wouldn't matter more than any other activity to show he has dedication and outside interests).

it can be if the instrument they play is the instrument the band or orchestra needs and they are the best that is interested in the school

That definitely makes it less of a hook than being a recruited athlete - much less of a sure thing

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:First generation college student, and pell grant eligible are both very valuable hooks right now.

but the college does not know if the student is pell grant eligible until AFTER the acceptance and the FAFSA and other financial aid work is done

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But to answer the question, for some lesser known schools, being a legacy (but not giving money) might be an advantage (stats otherwise being acceptable) because the school thinks perhaps admission may make you give more money.

But in general for the more elite schools, yes, they want to see substantial giving. A history of it. Seven figures or a building-sized gift.

Being a legacy but not giving money can help at MANY schools, not just lesser known ones. The case against Harvard revealed that the legacy admission rate was above 30%.

OK, but my high-stats kid was applying to Harvard and got a soft rejection. We were told seven figures. We gave - oh - maybe 1 figure

Oh, forgot to mention. Legacy at Harvard. Double legacy at Yale. Faculty assistance at Princeton. No big money donations = soft rejection everywhere.

how could a kid be a legacy at Harvard and double legacy at Yale? by double legacy do you mean parent/grandparent?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are specific instruments really a hook? My kid is very good at a difficult instrument (Interlochen, regional orchestras) but it was my impression this wouldn't matter for admissions (or at least wouldn't matter more than any other activity to show he has dedication and outside interests).

Instruments are NOT a hook.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:URM, full pay, athlete

I would not put "full pay" in there with URM and athlete.

Because overcoming racism or playing a sport exceptionally well are actual achievements, and having rich parents is just luck?

A hook is something that rich white kids can complain about as a way to assuage their hurt feelings about the fact that college admissions are competitive and they didn't win.

Bingo

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are specific instruments really a hook? My kid is very good at a difficult instrument (Interlochen, regional orchestras) but it was my impression this wouldn't matter for admissions (or at least wouldn't matter more than any other activity to show he has dedication and outside interests).

it can be if the instrument they play is the instrument the band or orchestra needs and they are the best that is interested in the school

I have professional musicians and band directors in my family and they say this is a decades-old canard. It is not been true outside of the conservatory/school of music world.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Are specific instruments really a hook? My kid is very good at a difficult instrument (Interlochen, regional orchestras) but it was my impression this wouldn't matter for admissions (or at least wouldn't matter more than any other activity to show he has dedication and outside interests).

Probably not for regional orchestras. Yes, if national orchestras or probably if state + independent competition awards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are specific instruments really a hook? My kid is very good at a difficult instrument (Interlochen, regional orchestras) but it was my impression this wouldn't matter for admissions (or at least wouldn't matter more than any other activity to show he has dedication and outside interests).

it can be if the instrument they play is the instrument the band or orchestra needs and they are the best that is interested in the school

I have professional musicians and band directors in my family and they say this is a decades-old canard. It is not been true outside of the conservatory/school of music world.

Disagree. Selingo talks about this in "Who Gets in and Why." He worked with various AOs. It is a thing.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:First generation college student, and pell grant eligible are both very valuable hooks right now.

but the college does not know if the student is pell grant eligible until AFTER the acceptance and the FAFSA and other financial aid work is done

Colleges send financial aid information with acceptances, so they definitely have that information when they are making decisions.

There are far more need aware schools that prioritize full pay applicants than there are schools that prioritize pell grant recipients.

Very few of the more selective schools discussed routinely here are need aware.


Pell grant eligibility came to the forefront when us news started including it as a ranking factor. Going forward with the expected ruling against affirmative action, it will become more significant as it is correlates highly with URM status.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are specific instruments really a hook? My kid is very good at a difficult instrument (Interlochen, regional orchestras) but it was my impression this wouldn't matter for admissions (or at least wouldn't matter more than any other activity to show he has dedication and outside interests).

it can be if the instrument they play is the instrument the band or orchestra needs and they are the best that is interested in the school

If we're going to describe learned skills as "hooks", then wouldn't high grades and test scores be "hooks"?

Not really. Those are the norm for highly competitive schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

But to answer the question, for some lesser known schools, being a legacy (but not giving money) might be an advantage (stats otherwise being acceptable) because the school thinks perhaps admission may make you give more money.

But in general for the more elite schools, yes, they want to see substantial giving. A history of it. Seven figures or a building-sized gift.

Being a legacy but not giving money can help at MANY schools, not just lesser known ones. The case against Harvard revealed that the legacy admission rate was above 30%.

OK, but my high-stats kid was applying to Harvard and got a soft rejection. We were told seven figures. We gave - oh - maybe 1 figure

Oh, forgot to mention. Legacy at Harvard. Double legacy at Yale. Faculty assistance at Princeton. No big money donations = soft rejection everywhere.

how could a kid be a legacy at Harvard and double legacy at Yale? by double legacy do you mean parent/grandparent?

It could be one parent graduated from Harvard and the other parent went to Yale as an undergrad and then to the law school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are specific instruments really a hook? My kid is very good at a difficult instrument (Interlochen, regional orchestras) but it was my impression this wouldn't matter for admissions (or at least wouldn't matter more than any other activity to show he has dedication and outside interests).

it can be if the instrument they play is the instrument the band or orchestra needs and they are the best that is interested in the school

I have professional musicians and band directors in my family and they say this is a decades-old canard. It is not been true outside of the conservatory/school of music world.

Disagree. Selingo talks about this in "Who Gets in and Why." He worked with various AOs. It is a thing.

Thanks! Here's hoping Northwestern needs a French horn player in a couple years!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are specific instruments really a hook? My kid is very good at a difficult instrument (Interlochen, regional orchestras) but it was my impression this wouldn't matter for admissions (or at least wouldn't matter more than any other activity to show he has dedication and outside interests).

it can be if the instrument they play is the instrument the band or orchestra needs and they are the best that is interested in the school

I have professional musicians and band directors in my family and they say this is a decades-old canard. It is not been true outside of the conservatory/school of music world.

Disagree. Selingo talks about this in "Who Gets in and Why." He worked with various AOs. It is a thing.

Thanks! Here's hoping Northwestern needs a French horn player in a couple years!

Northwestern has one of the top conservatories in the country. So, plenty of kids auditioning for French Horn.

[Anonymous]

I didn't read all, but wanted to mention that the legacy hook is only at certain schools. Google "does X University consider legacy" to find out about a particular school.

In addition, legacy is defined differently at different schools; for instance, at Harvard, only applicants of Harvard College grad parents are considered legacy, not, say, those kids of Law School grads.

And at USC they look at grandparents. So if you are interested in a school that considers legacy, google to find out how a school defines legacy.

Finally, legacy is (usually) only a hook for Early Decision. It goes away during regular decision. This can help your unhooked kid with a particular school. For instance, my kid's college counselor told my kid that getting into X school was going to be very unlikely during the ED round because too many of her classmates were legacy. However, she has a better shot during regular decision, because her stats are higher than many of those legacy kids.