American Legion Bridge

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Why is it I can drive 8 hours north through PA and NY and not pay a single toll?

Because you're driving to avoid tolls? You can do the same in Virginia and MD just like there are roads in PA and NY that are tolled

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MD has signed an agreement with Transurban. That agreement is currently being litigated because other companies wanted to bid, but it’s unlikely that will be successful. It will be very hard for Maryland to exit this agreement and there is no alternative plan in place to rebuild the bridge so it will happen eventually. However in typical Maryland fashion it will be decades too late.

Whatever Transurban has a contract to do, they're not going to do it. As you may have heard, Maryland will have a new governor and 2/3 of a new Board of Public Works next month. The clock ran out on Larry Hogan's pet plan.

So what is YOUR answer then to the chokehold there?

Same as Elrich and the MoCo leadership -- do nothing.

Actually, Elrich did have a suggestion on how to relieve beltway congestion -- he suggested a campaign to tell people about taking the ICC as an alternative. I'm not making this up. As if people don't have GPS systems that can't already tell them to take it if it's faster.

There are many options between Hogans plan and do nothing.

Do enlighten us

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it I can drive 8 hours north through PA and NY and not pay a single toll?

Because you're driving to avoid tolls? You can do the same in Virginia and MD just like there are roads in PA and NY that are tolled

No..head up 81 through PA and NY and you can get to CA without paying a dime. I am not taking a weird route to Boston.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MD has signed an agreement with Transurban. That agreement is currently being litigated because other companies wanted to bid, but it’s unlikely that will be successful. It will be very hard for Maryland to exit this agreement and there is no alternative plan in place to rebuild the bridge so it will happen eventually. However in typical Maryland fashion it will be decades too late.

Whatever Transurban has a contract to do, they're not going to do it. As you may have heard, Maryland will have a new governor and 2/3 of a new Board of Public Works next month. The clock ran out on Larry Hogan's pet plan.

So what is YOUR answer then to the chokehold there?

Same as Elrich and the MoCo leadership -- do nothing.

Actually, Elrich did have a suggestion on how to relieve beltway congestion -- he suggested a campaign to tell people about taking the ICC as an alternative. I'm not making this up. As if people don't have GPS systems that can't already tell them to take it if it's faster.

There are many options between Hogans plan and do nothing.

Do enlighten us

Use State/Federal funding rather than a PPP. Do not focus on only expanding the already widest parts of 270. Consider 1 or 2 reversal lanes.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why is it I can drive 8 hours north through PA and NY and not pay a single toll?

Because you're driving to avoid tolls? You can do the same in Virginia and MD just like there are roads in PA and NY that are tolled

No..head up 81 through PA and NY and you can get to CA without paying a dime. I am not taking a weird route to Boston.

Ok, now drive across the Pennsylvania turnpike or the New York thruway. Similarly, 81 from Virginia through MD is free. 95 to to 695 and then up 83 through Maryland is also free. Like almost every other state (including PA and NY), MD and VA have both free and tolled interstates

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote: What they need to do is construct a new bridge across the Potomac further North linking 28 in Virginia to some mythical road in Montgomery County that will take it all the way up to 270

No one has considered that a viable plan in decades. Read in Post from today: AAA, some Washington-area business leaders and local officials continued to push for a second crossing upstream throughout the 1990s. The idea of a “techway” gained some traction in 2000, when then-Rep. Frank R. Wolf (R-Va.) clinched $2 million for a federal study.

How the pandemic has shaped commuting in the D.C. region
But Wolf soon canceled the study amid fierce opposition, ignited after both advocates and opponents drew lines on maps showing where a new bridge might cross. The biggest hurdle: Any second crossing would need to connect to a new highway. That highway probably would cut through some of the region’s wealthiest neighborhoods, with multimillion dollar homes and a bucolic feel, on both sides of the Potomac. The Montgomery council also objected to any road through the county’s western agricultural preserve.

“I saw the maps and thought, ‘There goes the future of that project,’ ” Anderson recalled. “Whose mansions were you going to tear down — in Great Falls, Virginia, or Potomac, Maryland? The answer was neither.”

The idea hasn’t been seriously considered since."

[Anonymous]

Nice quotes, but the main thrust of the article is that a new bridge will be needed eventually, even if it will be politically difficult and very expensive.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/transportation/2022/12/29/american-legion-bridge-traffic/

“The bridge was built to serve a different purpose at a different time,” said Versel, who studied transportation options between the two counties in 2013 as a senior research associate at George Mason University. “It was built at a time when there wasn’t any thought that this many people would live or work on both sides of the bridge.”

Maryland and Virginia reach agreement to rebuild and widen American Legion Bridge

Meanwhile, there are few other ways to cross the river separating Washington’s northern and western suburbs. The Point of Rocks Bridge is about 35 miles upstream. White’s Ferry, dating to 1786, said it carried about 800 people across the Potomac daily between Poolesville, Md., and Leesburg, Va., but it stopped operating in 2020 amid a property dispute.

“Your options to get to these places are the Beltway or the Beltway,” said Anderson of AAA. “There are people who have no business being on the bridge, but they have to be because there is no other way.”


“Edgar Gonzalez, a former Montgomery transportation deputy director and a leader in a pro-toll-lanes group, said he believes political pressure for another crossing will continue to build as new residents and jobs bring more Beltway traffic.

“Even with the widening being planned, it will only be good until the 2040s,” Gonzalez said of the American Legion Bridge. “But then, as the region keeps growing, you’re going to need another outlet for the traffic.””

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote: What they need to do is construct a new bridge across the Potomac further North linking 28 in Virginia to some mythical road in Montgomery County that will take it all the way up to 270

No one has considered that a viable plan in decades. Read in Post from today: AAA, some Washington-area business leaders and local officials continued to push for a second crossing upstream throughout the 1990s. The idea of a “techway” gained some traction in 2000, when then-Rep. Frank R. Wolf (R-Va.) clinched $2 million for a federal study.

How the pandemic has shaped commuting in the D.C. region
But Wolf soon canceled the study amid fierce opposition, ignited after both advocates and opponents drew lines on maps showing where a new bridge might cross. The biggest hurdle: Any second crossing would need to connect to a new highway. That highway probably would cut through some of the region’s wealthiest neighborhoods, with multimillion dollar homes and a bucolic feel, on both sides of the Potomac. The Montgomery council also objected to any road through the county’s western agricultural preserve.

“I saw the maps and thought, ‘There goes the future of that project,’ ” Anderson recalled. “Whose mansions were you going to tear down — in Great Falls, Virginia, or Potomac, Maryland? The answer was neither.”

The idea hasn’t been seriously considered since."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Nice quotes, but the main thrust of the article is that a new bridge will be needed eventually, even if it will be politically difficult and very expensive.

Eh, no. That's just some people expressing their opinions, based on the ideas that everyone is always going to have to drive everywhere and will always continue to do so in ever greater numbers. The bridge itself is structurally sound.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MD has signed an agreement with Transurban. That agreement is currently being litigated because other companies wanted to bid, but it’s unlikely that will be successful. It will be very hard for Maryland to exit this agreement and there is no alternative plan in place to rebuild the bridge so it will happen eventually. However in typical Maryland fashion it will be decades too late.

Whatever Transurban has a contract to do, they're not going to do it. As you may have heard, Maryland will have a new governor and 2/3 of a new Board of Public Works next month. The clock ran out on Larry Hogan's pet plan.

Please dear expert explain how MD gets out of its contractual obligation?

Signing that contract was probably the best thing Hogan ever did for this county because it forced them down a road that’s effectively irreversible except for large financial penalties. Not that they won’t try but eventually the contract will be upheld. The bridge is a done deal but will be more expensive and take longer to address than necessary.

270 is actually where things get interesting. Upcounty wants expansion. Frederick wants expansion.

Not PP but Maryland is stuck. They will not have to go through but they will have to pay something to Transurban to get out. Things like this don't change from a legal perspective because there is a new administration. They can kill the project but they will have to make a payment.

What will happen: new administration will study this -- decide it is only solution and keep it moving and blame Hogan for any issues. There is no real plan B.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nice quotes, but the main thrust of the article is that a new bridge will be needed eventually, even if it will be politically difficult and very expensive.

Eh, no. That's just some people expressing their opinions, based on the ideas that everyone is always going to have to drive everywhere and will always continue to do so in ever greater numbers. The bridge itself is structurally sound.

The bridge is not sound over the medium term. No bridge that age is. And everyone is going to drive everywhere is even greater numbers. Remote work is not going to change that. And if everyone gets EVs -- plan on more driving not less as no one will feel guilty and no gas cost.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MD has signed an agreement with Transurban. That agreement is currently being litigated because other companies wanted to bid, but it’s unlikely that will be successful. It will be very hard for Maryland to exit this agreement and there is no alternative plan in place to rebuild the bridge so it will happen eventually. However in typical Maryland fashion it will be decades too late.

Whatever Transurban has a contract to do, they're not going to do it. As you may have heard, Maryland will have a new governor and 2/3 of a new Board of Public Works next month. The clock ran out on Larry Hogan's pet plan.

Please dear expert explain how MD gets out of its contractual obligation?

Signing that contract was probably the best thing Hogan ever did for this county because it forced them down a road that’s effectively irreversible except for large financial penalties. Not that they won’t try but eventually the contract will be upheld. The bridge is a done deal but will be more expensive and take longer to address than necessary.

270 is actually where things get interesting. Upcounty wants expansion. Frederick wants expansion.

Not PP but Maryland is stuck. They will not have to go through but they will have to pay something to Transurban to get out. Things like this don't change from a legal perspective because there is a new administration. They can kill the project but they will have to make a payment.

What will happen: new administration will study this -- decide it is only solution and keep it moving and blame Hogan for any issues. There is no real plan B.

Whether there is, or whether there isn't, Plan A is terrible. Transurban would profit, while Marylanders would pay the price. Sunk costs are sunk. It's bad policy to proceed with a terrible project.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nice quotes, but the main thrust of the article is that a new bridge will be needed eventually, even if it will be politically difficult and very expensive.

Eh, no. That's just some people expressing their opinions, based on the ideas that everyone is always going to have to drive everywhere and will always continue to do so in ever greater numbers. The bridge itself is structurally sound.

The bridge is not sound over the medium term. No bridge that age is. And everyone is going to drive everywhere is even greater numbers. Remote work is not going to change that. And if everyone gets EVs -- plan on more driving not less as no one will feel guilty and no gas cost.

It just needs redecking. Didn't you read the article?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MD has signed an agreement with Transurban. That agreement is currently being litigated because other companies wanted to bid, but it’s unlikely that will be successful. It will be very hard for Maryland to exit this agreement and there is no alternative plan in place to rebuild the bridge so it will happen eventually. However in typical Maryland fashion it will be decades too late.

Whatever Transurban has a contract to do, they're not going to do it. As you may have heard, Maryland will have a new governor and 2/3 of a new Board of Public Works next month. The clock ran out on Larry Hogan's pet plan.

So what is YOUR answer then to the chokehold there?

Same as Elrich and the MoCo leadership -- do nothing.

Actually, Elrich did have a suggestion on how to relieve beltway congestion -- he suggested a campaign to tell people about taking the ICC as an alternative. I'm not making this up. As if people don't have GPS systems that can't already tell them to take it if it's faster.

There are many options between Hogans plan and do nothing.

Do enlighten us

Use State/Federal funding rather than a PPP. Do not focus on only expanding the already widest parts of 270. Consider 1 or 2 reversal lanes.

There are not enough funds to pay for this. It would require a big MD outlay. What would be a plan is to give VA half of the Potomac and get them to pay half. VA would.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MD has signed an agreement with Transurban. That agreement is currently being litigated because other companies wanted to bid, but it’s unlikely that will be successful. It will be very hard for Maryland to exit this agreement and there is no alternative plan in place to rebuild the bridge so it will happen eventually. However in typical Maryland fashion it will be decades too late.

Whatever Transurban has a contract to do, they're not going to do it. As you may have heard, Maryland will have a new governor and 2/3 of a new Board of Public Works next month. The clock ran out on Larry Hogan's pet plan.

So what is YOUR answer then to the chokehold there?

Same as Elrich and the MoCo leadership -- do nothing.

Actually, Elrich did have a suggestion on how to relieve beltway congestion -- he suggested a campaign to tell people about taking the ICC as an alternative. I'm not making this up. As if people don't have GPS systems that can't already tell them to take it if it's faster.

There are many options between Hogans plan and do nothing.

Do enlighten us

Use State/Federal funding rather than a PPP. Do not focus on only expanding the already widest parts of 270. Consider 1 or 2 reversal lanes.

There are not enough funds to pay for this. It would require a big MD outlay. What would be a plan is to give VA half of the Potomac and get them to pay half. VA would.

That's a plan like "Hire flying unicorns" is a plan.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MD has signed an agreement with Transurban. That agreement is currently being litigated because other companies wanted to bid, but it’s unlikely that will be successful. It will be very hard for Maryland to exit this agreement and there is no alternative plan in place to rebuild the bridge so it will happen eventually. However in typical Maryland fashion it will be decades too late.

Whatever Transurban has a contract to do, they're not going to do it. As you may have heard, Maryland will have a new governor and 2/3 of a new Board of Public Works next month. The clock ran out on Larry Hogan's pet plan.

So what is YOUR answer then to the chokehold there?

Same as Elrich and the MoCo leadership -- do nothing.

Actually, Elrich did have a suggestion on how to relieve beltway congestion -- he suggested a campaign to tell people about taking the ICC as an alternative. I'm not making this up. As if people don't have GPS systems that can't already tell them to take it if it's faster.

There are many options between Hogans plan and do nothing.

Do enlighten us

Use State/Federal funding rather than a PPP. Do not focus on only expanding the already widest parts of 270. Consider 1 or 2 reversal lanes.

There are not enough funds to pay for this. It would require a big MD outlay. What would be a plan is to give VA half of the Potomac and get them to pay half. VA would.

Va would impose a toll to replace the bridge and a separate toll for the construction of new lanes. That’s the MO for new infrastructure in NoVa. A toll makes the most sense for Md because the cost will be shared by Va commuters and people traveling through the region to get to other states.