Housing is the new source of inequality

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This entire thread is a demonstration of this Atlantic piece about how people remain woefully in denial of the housing shortage in this country: https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2022/11/us-housing-supply-shortage-crisis-2022/672240/

New housing starts are not keeping up with population growth: https://usafacts.org/articles/population-growth-has-outpaced-home-construction-for-20-years/

There genuinely is less housing per capita than there used to be. Virtue-signaling doesn't change reality. It's harder to afford a home today than it used to be. I have no dog in this fight, as I'm well off and actually bought below our means during the previous downturn. But I'd simply be an a-hole if I sat around asking why others aren't as thrifty as me.

Ha, NO. There was no housing shortage before the pandemic. Do you really think millions of houses all across America fell off a cliff in the summer 2020. This NAR prosecuted myth has been disproven countless times.

Yah, no: https://www.jchs.harvard.edu/blog/2019-state-of-the-nations-housing-report-shows-us-housing-supply-falls-far-short-of-what-is-needed

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:+1000

DH and I lived in a condo for 6 years. We lived off one salary and worked 2 jobs until first child born. We put most our savings into a home after 5 years. We did not have things others find necessary- gym membership, two cars, home phone, cable, eating out, etc.

Granted, we had good professional jobs but we wanted a nice home in a nice neighborhood when our kids went to school.

This is a red herring. Other people who didn't pay for gym memberships weren't able to buy a condo in an expensive area to get on the property ladder for a wide variety of reasons. They weren't just irresponsible big spenders. I hate this "we were virtuous, why can't everyone else be too?"

+1 especially when they did that 10 years ago when affordability was much more closely tied to income. For those in their 20s just starting to work and those in their 30s paying down college loans and saving for a down payment, their worse financial mistake was being born too late. Some people really do live in a bubble.

Or they made poor choices with the college loans and want to complain.

[Anonymous]

I’ll never forget my realtor in 2005. She had this incredible home on the hill. She said she bought it 15 years prior and no one supported her decision or ever would even come to her house. SO many DC neighborhoods that are now desired by UMC whites (Petworth, H Street, Logan, U St, Shaw, Trinidad) were blighted as recently as 2002. In 2002 my job was to help bust drug houses in Trinidad.

Eventually, for better or for worse depending on your stance on gentrification, UMC people have bought up these neighborhoods, but to gain wealth in real estate you have to stretch from your comfort zone. I never forgot that agent. I bought in Logan and H street and eventually leveraged my way into my Arlington home…20 years from whence I started on my 38k salary.

With recession looming, you should be looking anywhere that gets you to Amazon HQ on metro and buy in the dip.

[Anonymous]

I bought a house in an exurb DCUM sneered at in 2015 for $500k. It’s now worth $1.2mm. My PITI is $2800. I’m sure you can afford something in a sneer-worthy area too.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the responder missed the point. PP seems to be saying that the primary driver for haves/haves not is housing.

It’s still not new. I grew up in a city with a housing crisis back in the 1970s. With no available housing stock in middle class neighborhoods, every aspect of life was impacted such as access to decent schools, availability of grocery stores and medical care, etc. It’s not new. It’s just impacting people who look like OP so now she cares.

+1

Not a new phenom at all. Has been affecting Black and Brown populations for generations.
Different cause but same consequences now affecting other groups.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I bought a house in an exurb DCUM sneered at in 2015 for $500k. It’s now worth $1.2mm. My PITI is $2800. I’m sure you can afford something in a sneer-worthy area too.

2015 rates are not the current rates so … They probably cannot afford it. Not to mention inflation.

[Anonymous]

We bought our first home in 2002. Our interest rate was 6.75%, so not that different from today. My parents bought their first house in 1980. Their interest rate was 15%. The recent sub 4% interest rates were the anomaly, not the norm.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Homes are definitely affordable. Maybe in Woodbridge or Stafford. But they’re affordable. You’re just picky

They're not, though. I live all the way up in Frederick, in a tiny rowhouse that we're sinking tons of money and time into fixing up, and if I were buying now, between interest rates and price increases, my monthly payment would likely double (or close to it). At these rates, lots of middle class families cant afford the "affordable" homes you're talking about. And I bought TWO YEARS AGO; if I'd been able to buy two years earlier I'm positive I'd be in an SFH.

I really think we're in for either a price correction, or increasing domination of the housing market by big companies that rent out homes that would have been owner-occupied 10 years earlier. I hope it's the first, even though it would make my own property values go down, because the second is grim.

Again, they are. You’re just picky. There are homes in Stafford or Woodbridge that are very affordable. People want a big nice turnkey house with a 40k salary with 60k in debt. Nobody told you to get into debt. That was your choice. Period.

I don’t feel bad for people who say they “can’t”. You can. But you should’ve been preparing and not just expecting nice things to fall into your lap, or you won’t go farther out where you can afford.

DP who also moved to Frederick County during the pandemic. Agree with PP. I bought a sfh in 2020 and it would be quite a stretch to buy it now. I followed schools, up the red line, and couldn’t afford anything until I got to Frederick County. I was not looking for “Turnkey” or anything close. Literally wanted good schools and good bones (for the house). Neighborhood was also a factor. Moved from Van Ness to up here and wanted my kid to experience something more surburban (i.e. playing in the backyard, riding bikes in the street, water balloon fights, etc). I work in MD and prefer living in MD. Woodbridge was never an option and I wanted to stay within an hour’s drive to work. Most people “get into debt” when they buy a home. It’s called a mortgage.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:We bought our first home in 2002. Our interest rate was 6.75%, so not that different from today. My parents bought their first house in 1980. Their interest rate was 15%. The recent sub 4% interest rates were the anomaly, not the norm.

Uh-huh but home prices were generally lower in 2002 and definitely in 1980. Currently, with major home appreciation during the pandemic, and high rates it’s a different scenario.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Housing has cycles. If anything young professionals people are working in great shape to buy. Anyone one under 30 now gets chance to buy first home at a discount in 2023-2030

No one is getting a discount with inflation.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think the responder missed the point. PP seems to be saying that the primary driver for haves/haves not is housing.

Again, not a new phenomenon

PhD economist here. Not exactly. Home price to income ratios are definitely not constant since the 1970s, especially for some local housing markets.

What is the point that you’re trying to make? Previous posters are not only speaking on income affordability but racial discrimination in housing and gentrification.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We bought our first home in 2002. Our interest rate was 6.75%, so not that different from today. My parents bought their first house in 1980. Their interest rate was 15%. The recent sub 4% interest rates were the anomaly, not the norm.

Uh-huh but home prices were generally lower in 2002 and definitely in 1980. Currently, with major home appreciation during the pandemic, and high rates it’s a different scenario.

Sure, but for many professionals incomes have also gone up. In the law, as a first year associate in 2002 I was making $110K a year. First year associates at my firm now make $250K. I realize that not all professions have escalated this fast or this far, but in 2002 I was able to afford a crappy, run down house in a neighborhood with pretty significant crime for $500K. A young professionals can still afford a house like this.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We bought our first home in 2002. Our interest rate was 6.75%, so not that different from today. My parents bought their first house in 1980. Their interest rate was 15%. The recent sub 4% interest rates were the anomaly, not the norm.

Uh-huh but home prices were generally lower in 2002 and definitely in 1980. Currently, with major home appreciation during the pandemic, and high rates it’s a different scenario.

Sure, but for many professionals incomes have also gone up. In the law, as a first year associate in 2002 I was making $110K a year. First year associates at my firm now make $250K. I realize that not all professions have escalated this fast or this far, but in 2002 I was able to afford a crappy, run down house in a neighborhood with pretty significant crime for $500K. A young professionals can still afford a house like this.

$500k in 2002 is $841,366.46 in 2022 with inflation. That’s not affordable for many.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:No one anywhere needs to be virtuous. No one anywhere needs to own a house. Everyone can have their own priorities in spending.

The other side of the coin are skyrocketing rents that working class people can’t afford, even in areas 45-60 min away from where the jobs are.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:There are better, cheaper places to live than DC you just have to be willing to move. DC is such a transient area that very few people are stuck here unless you're poor. But honestly poor people should do their best not to live in DC so they actually have a shot at moving up the economic ladder.

Your last sentence is he problem.

Opportunities and resources and jobs to move up socioeconomically are concentrated in cities. For most people, their zip code is their destiny.

Poor people can’t win. Wtf?