APS Middle School Honors Program and Academic Over All

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6th grade last year at Swanson. Not a single novel.

This school year they will still only have intensified math but will have larger clusters of identified GT students so that some of the other core classes can go deeper. Optional intensified in science, history and English will begin in the 23-24 school year. There will be a heavy push to encourage low SES and/or minority children to try them out and get extra supports so that it doesn’t end up being tracking for rich white kids.

Getting intensified options in MS has been a primary focus of the Gifted Services Advisory Committee for years and it went nowhere under Murphy. Duran signed on last year with this year as the interim with larger clusters of similarly high ability children.

If your child is doing well at a strong private I wouldn’t switch. It isn’t an honors program and never will be. The courses are open enrollment, not restricted to only kids with teacher recommendations or certain test scores.

This. It was explicitly noted when the program was adopted that if there was a race disparity between students in those classes vs. the school overall then the program would get killed.

It’s going to be interesting to see how it plays out. GT for our elementary was a feather in the cap for parents and nothing more.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6th grade last year at Swanson. Not a single novel.

This school year they will still only have intensified math but will have larger clusters of identified GT students so that some of the other core classes can go deeper. Optional intensified in science, history and English will begin in the 23-24 school year. There will be a heavy push to encourage low SES and/or minority children to try them out and get extra supports so that it doesn’t end up being tracking for rich white kids.

Getting intensified options in MS has been a primary focus of the Gifted Services Advisory Committee for years and it went nowhere under Murphy. Duran signed on last year with this year as the interim with larger clusters of similarly high ability children.

If your child is doing well at a strong private I wouldn’t switch. It isn’t an honors program and never will be. The courses are open enrollment, not restricted to only kids with teacher recommendations or certain test scores.

This. It was explicitly noted when the program was adopted that if there was a race disparity between students in those classes vs. the school overall then the program would get killed.

Why kill it when instead the problem is improved earlier elementary education to prepare those?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6th grade last year at Swanson. Not a single novel.

This school year they will still only have intensified math but will have larger clusters of identified GT students so that some of the other core classes can go deeper. Optional intensified in science, history and English will begin in the 23-24 school year. There will be a heavy push to encourage low SES and/or minority children to try them out and get extra supports so that it doesn’t end up being tracking for rich white kids.

Getting intensified options in MS has been a primary focus of the Gifted Services Advisory Committee for years and it went nowhere under Murphy. Duran signed on last year with this year as the interim with larger clusters of similarly high ability children.

If your child is doing well at a strong private I wouldn’t switch. It isn’t an honors program and never will be. The courses are open enrollment, not restricted to only kids with teacher recommendations or certain test scores.

This. It was explicitly noted when the program was adopted that if there was a race disparity between students in those classes vs. the school overall then the program would get killed.

Why kill it when instead the problem is improved earlier elementary education to prepare those?

Because APS doesn’t actually believe in equity? It’s a race to the bottom. If we hold kids to high standards and they fail to meet them, we need to lower the standards. Too bad for those who reach or excel past those standards. You don’t get what you need either.

I’m happy Duran is willing to make it happen, but I’m worried it won’t last.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
On the novels in MS thing... my kids are in HS now but as I recall they read novels regularly throughout MS (at TJ) but it just wasn't the whole class reading/discussing the same novel. They picked from lists of books or around themes. They did it this way because there is a wide range of ability in each class. It's been a few years but I certainly seemed to be regularly helping DS and DD decide what to read next. As I understood it, they either were doing projects related to the book and/or having class/small group discussions about the theme. i.e. if the theme is immigration you can discuss how that is handled in different books even if you haven't all read the same book.



Yup. My DD was at Swanson and regularly read novels.

This is not the only reason. Studies have shown that students will be more engaged if they pick the novels they read, so teachers are encouraged to give choices. Also, there are always parents who disapprove of certain novels, so picking just one book for the whole class often doesn't work well. Lastly, APS MS students aren't studying the classics yet--when APS students get to high school, they will study selected classic novels as a group.

[Anonymous]

On the subject of novels, it varies by kid. Not just choice of book, but whether they are assigned the whole book or excerpts, and the scope of questions they are asked. Kids in the same class can be doing different assignments on the same subject matter, depending on their abilities and interest.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
On the novels in MS thing... my kids are in HS now but as I recall they read novels regularly throughout MS (at TJ) but it just wasn't the whole class reading/discussing the same novel. They picked from lists of books or around themes. They did it this way because there is a wide range of ability in each class. It's been a few years but I certainly seemed to be regularly helping DS and DD decide what to read next. As I understood it, they either were doing projects related to the book and/or having class/small group discussions about the theme. i.e. if the theme is immigration you can discuss how that is handled in different books even if you haven't all read the same book.



Yup. My DD was at Swanson and regularly read novels.

This is not the only reason. Studies have shown that students will be more engaged if they pick the novels they read, so teachers are encouraged to give choices. Also, there are always parents who disapprove of certain novels, so picking just one book for the whole class often doesn't work well. Lastly, APS MS students aren't studying the classics yet--when APS students get to high school, they will study selected classic novels as a group.

Maybe, but its hard to have much analysis or deep discussion of themes of a novel if every person has read a different one -- I doubt the teacher has even read all the novels her class has read, so what is the opportunity for a deeper dive there or even to know they read the novel rather than just the wikipedia page on it?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
On the novels in MS thing... my kids are in HS now but as I recall they read novels regularly throughout MS (at TJ) but it just wasn't the whole class reading/discussing the same novel. They picked from lists of books or around themes. They did it this way because there is a wide range of ability in each class. It's been a few years but I certainly seemed to be regularly helping DS and DD decide what to read next. As I understood it, they either were doing projects related to the book and/or having class/small group discussions about the theme. i.e. if the theme is immigration you can discuss how that is handled in different books even if you haven't all read the same book.



Yup. My DD was at Swanson and regularly read novels.

This is not the only reason. Studies have shown that students will be more engaged if they pick the novels they read, so teachers are encouraged to give choices. Also, there are always parents who disapprove of certain novels, so picking just one book for the whole class often doesn't work well. Lastly, APS MS students aren't studying the classics yet--when APS students get to high school, they will study selected classic novels as a group.

Emphasis on "selected" - 'cause they're extremely FEW.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:6th grade last year at Swanson. Not a single novel.

This school year they will still only have intensified math but will have larger clusters of identified GT students so that some of the other core classes can go deeper. Optional intensified in science, history and English will begin in the 23-24 school year. There will be a heavy push to encourage low SES and/or minority children to try them out and get extra supports so that it doesn’t end up being tracking for rich white kids.

Getting intensified options in MS has been a primary focus of the Gifted Services Advisory Committee for years and it went nowhere under Murphy. Duran signed on last year with this year as the interim with larger clusters of similarly high ability children.

If your child is doing well at a strong private I wouldn’t switch. It isn’t an honors program and never will be. The courses are open enrollment, not restricted to only kids with teacher recommendations or certain test scores.

This. It was explicitly noted when the program was adopted that if there was a race disparity between students in those classes vs. the school overall then the program would get killed.

Why kill it when instead the problem is improved earlier elementary education to prepare those?

Bot everyone starts APS in kindergarten. Many people move here while their children are of varying school ages; and they're coming from lots of different backgrounds, languages, education levels. Still, I agree with you that better preparation in general is needed in ES so there can be more rigorous standards in MS and in MS so we can have more rigorous standards and higher expectations in HS. But, it's just so much easier and less expensive to lower the standards and expectations for everyone instead....

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
On the novels in MS thing... my kids are in HS now but as I recall they read novels regularly throughout MS (at TJ) but it just wasn't the whole class reading/discussing the same novel. They picked from lists of books or around themes. They did it this way because there is a wide range of ability in each class. It's been a few years but I certainly seemed to be regularly helping DS and DD decide what to read next. As I understood it, they either were doing projects related to the book and/or having class/small group discussions about the theme. i.e. if the theme is immigration you can discuss how that is handled in different books even if you haven't all read the same book.



Yup. My DD was at Swanson and regularly read novels.

This is not the only reason. Studies have shown that students will be more engaged if they pick the novels they read, so teachers are encouraged to give choices. Also, there are always parents who disapprove of certain novels, so picking just one book for the whole class often doesn't work well. Lastly, APS MS students aren't studying the classics yet--when APS students get to high school, they will study selected classic novels as a group.

Maybe, but its hard to have much analysis or deep discussion of themes of a novel if every person has read a different one -- I doubt the teacher has even read all the novels her class has read, so what is the opportunity for a deeper dive there or even to know they read the novel rather than just the wikipedia page on it?

I hated group novels. Got far more out of discussions on a novel the whole class was reading than I ever got out of any of the novels read in groups. Group presentations and short re-enactments of plays just aren't deep dives (or even medium dives) into individual pieces of literature. Much more in-depth discussion and analysis and thought occurs when the class reads through a book together; and then that analysis and thought can be applied to the next novel a student reads whether for class or for individual interest.

[Anonymous]

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS is getting more intensified classes this year or next, but they are opt-in and not test-in, although I think that it will be similar to math where a recommendation is made.

My child is going into 6th, so no experience yet. If you think you’ll go private for HS, I’d just stay at Langley and supplement where you see holes.

No we aren’t committed to private for HS, will depend on MS experience.

Also curious about middle school sports, seems like many are cut sports? What if a kid just wants to try something like tennis?

Then you sign him up for a rec program. MS sports are unique to APS- as FCPS doesnt have them. APS sports are competitive, including tennis.

What? My middle school had all sorts of sports program to let people try things before competition of high school

Your middle school like 30 years ago? Or your kids current APS middle? APS MS soccer, basketball, tennis and wrestling are all tryout teams. There are intramurals to play for fun. Or frisbee, track, dive are no cut. There is no MS baseball, football, field hockey or volleyball.

What intramurals, we didn’t have them at DHMS.

WMS has them 3x week. They vary.

https://williamsburg.apsva.us/virtual-clubs/intramurals/

Why don’t all middles schools have intramurals?

Teacher/staff availability like all clubs. They are volunteering their time.

So none of the staff has volunteered for intramurals? Can a parent start an intramural? Or raise funds to hire a coach?

It’s up to admin/student/parent interest. Not all APS high schools have intramurals either.
Another option through the county: there is rec league basketball that is no cut.

That's delightful but for working parents having activities at school rather than driving to some random rec league is a completely different commitment.

I wish they spent less money on tablets and offered more afterschool sports accessible to all students, not just those who started travel in 3rd grade.

Rec is not random, it’s run through Arlington County and students are grouped by their school. It’s how most kids try out any new sport. That’s how most of us tried out sports when we were kids! This is such a bizarre thing to be worked up over. By Middle school your kid can pick up a racket and go play with a friend on their own. Additionally, over on the Fairfax County page parents are saying their kids don’t even get outdoor PE in middle school it’s more of a study hall. Our kids in middle school PE are exposed to many different sports.

But not so much the outdoors. Most PE is held indoors. Even in high school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS is getting more intensified classes this year or next, but they are opt-in and not test-in, although I think that it will be similar to math where a recommendation is made.

My child is going into 6th, so no experience yet. If you think you’ll go private for HS, I’d just stay at Langley and supplement where you see holes.

No we aren’t committed to private for HS, will depend on MS experience.

Also curious about middle school sports, seems like many are cut sports? What if a kid just wants to try something like tennis?

Then you sign him up for a rec program. MS sports are unique to APS- as FCPS doesnt have them. APS sports are competitive, including tennis.

What? My middle school had all sorts of sports program to let people try things before competition of high school

Your middle school like 30 years ago? Or your kids current APS middle? APS MS soccer, basketball, tennis and wrestling are all tryout teams. There are intramurals to play for fun. Or frisbee, track, dive are no cut. There is no MS baseball, football, field hockey or volleyball.

What intramurals, we didn’t have them at DHMS.

WMS has them 3x week. They vary.

https://williamsburg.apsva.us/virtual-clubs/intramurals/

Why don’t all middles schools have intramurals?

Teacher/staff availability like all clubs. They are volunteering their time.

So none of the staff has volunteered for intramurals? Can a parent start an intramural? Or raise funds to hire a coach?

It’s up to admin/student/parent interest. Not all APS high schools have intramurals either.
Another option through the county: there is rec league basketball that is no cut.

That's delightful but for working parents having activities at school rather than driving to some random rec league is a completely different commitment.

I wish they spent less money on tablets and offered more afterschool sports accessible to all students, not just those who started travel in 3rd grade.

Rec is not random, it’s run through Arlington County and students are grouped by their school. It’s how most kids try out any new sport. That’s how most of us tried out sports when we were kids! This is such a bizarre thing to be worked up over. By Middle school your kid can pick up a racket and go play with a friend on their own. Additionally, over on the Fairfax County page parents are saying their kids don’t even get outdoor PE in middle school it’s more of a study hall. Our kids in middle school PE are exposed to many different sports.

But not so much the outdoors. Most PE is held indoors. Even in high school.

That is not our experience at all.

[Anonymous]

Maybe, but its hard to have much analysis or deep discussion of themes of a novel if every person has read a different one -- I doubt the teacher has even read all the novels her class has read, so what is the opportunity for a deeper dive there or even to know they read the novel rather than just the wikipedia page on it?

If the teacher asks students to show evidence from their novel of a main character's traits, for example, citing specific examples verbatim, they are not going to find their answer on wikipedia. This does represent a deeper dive into characterization, which is one of the concepts taught in MS. And yes, many teachers DO read all the books they assign. Why do you assume the worst of APS teachers?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:APS is getting more intensified classes this year or next, but they are opt-in and not test-in, although I think that it will be similar to math where a recommendation is made.

My child is going into 6th, so no experience yet. If you think you’ll go private for HS, I’d just stay at Langley and supplement where you see holes.

If this is the Fairfax honors model, run the other direction. The only intensified class in reality is Math. The differences between the rest of the academics are very small, if any. Opt-in is exactly that.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:APS is getting more intensified classes this year or next, but they are opt-in and not test-in, although I think that it will be similar to math where a recommendation is made.

My child is going into 6th, so no experience yet. If you think you’ll go private for HS, I’d just stay at Langley and supplement where you see holes.

If this is the Fairfax honors model, run the other direction. The only intensified class in reality is Math. The differences between the rest of the academics are very small, if any. Opt-in is exactly that.

Yep. It’s a way to placate parents wanting more challenge for their kids “they are in all honors, they are fine”