College enrollment down

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well that’s my question really- is it easier now for average students? I’m not talking high stats, highly selective schools but good state flagships that are outside of even T50.

No change at state flagships

Not true. Call, UCLA, Michigan, Wisconsin are MUCH more selective and harder to get into out of state than a decade ago.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Enrollment isn't down in the selective colleges, say T100-150.

However, there are hundreds of local and regional schools that are hemmoraging students. It will be a serious issue as these things ebb and flow, and having an educated populace is critical for an operational democracy.

This is what the GOP wants. Uneducated, dumb populace that lacks critical thinking skills. Not how some of the most repugnant politicans went to Ivy League schools. This is all a game to them.

No. I think people are realizing what a scam it can be in some situations. I think we have allowed higher ed to sell something people don't need in every situation. You don't need college to be a administrative assistant. Just look at how expensive it is to hire truly qualified trades people to work on your house. They have an advantage because so few people go into the trade

We need more vocational schools.

Hear, hear. I teach a class at a regional college in the Midwest. At least 20-30% of the undergraduates I've dealt with have little to no chance of graduating from a 4 year college but would probably do quite well in a field that doesn't require strong writing skills or a lot of abstract thinking.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Well that’s my question really- is it easier now for average students? I’m not talking high stats, highly selective schools but good state flagships that are outside of even T50.

No change at state flagships

Not true. Call, UCLA, Michigan, Wisconsin are MUCH more selective and harder to get into out of state than a decade ago.

Many of them don't meet the bang for the buck test - huge costs for OOS students, very little aid.

[Anonymous]

I wouldn’t get your hopes up. Many schools in the top 75 are over enrolled this year. Next year could be really tough.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I wouldn’t get your hopes up. Many schools in the top 75 are over enrolled this year. Next year could be really tough.

So are we just all going after the same 75 schools? Flooding them with multiple applications per common app? This system is crazy.

[Anonymous]

Yeah, this has nothing to do with most kids whose parents post on DCUM. It's the kid as second level state schools that dropped out when they found tuition rising and they got a 50K job without a college degree with promotion potential. It's not a terrible thing but it doesn't change much for the strivers in the DMV.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
I don't know. We visited a lot of northeast SLACs and even though some are lovely and are called Williams and Swarthmore, it just didn't feel like I'd want to spend $77K a year for that. The acceptance rate is supposedly 9% for those. Really? Merit aid isn't a given, and we're just out of financial aid territory.

BTW, all the 8 SLACs we visited in the region were nearly all $77K. Sounds like scammy price-fixing to me. It just left a bad taste in my mouth.

I agree! This is how U Denver is. Looks beautiful but at ~$65K+ and offering little merit and we don’t qualify for aid then this is just ridiculous. Who are they getting to apply! I’m not going to feel sorry for these SLAC’s that go under because they can’t adjust their business model.

My did considered Denver and it offers merit to a lot of kids … maybe 85% as I recall? However even was the top award it was going to be $40k or so for tuition/room/board, so a fair amount.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Enrollment isn't down in the selective colleges, say T100-150.

However, there are hundreds of local and regional schools that are hemmoraging students. It will be a serious issue as these things ebb and flow, and having an educated populace is critical for an operational democracy.

This is what the GOP wants. Uneducated, dumb populace that lacks critical thinking skills. Not how some of the most repugnant politicans went to Ivy League schools. This is all a game to them.

No. I think people are realizing what a scam it can be in some situations. I think we have allowed higher ed to sell something people don't need in every situation. You don't need college to be a administrative assistant. Just look at how expensive it is to hire truly qualified trades people to work on your house. They have an advantage because so few people go into the trade

We need more vocational schools.

Yet I would not hire an administrative assitant without a 4 year college degree. Needed for the job at a law firm. Maybe not at a paper supply company but probably needed there too.

Why is this “needed”?

It's not needed but it's the only way to filter for a basic level of conscientiousness and literacy so it is what it is.

I hate to say it, but I tend to agree. If someone absent a BA had a very strong resume and impressive recs from comparable managers, I would probably go for it. But without that filter, then I might find it risky. I had to hire or sit on the team of AA hires for over 20 years and the quality was lacking. This was pretty difficult for me as I know that finances are often a barrier to post HS education. That said, nearly all my HS friends who've worked as AAs, EAs, etc did one to two year secretarial programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College prof here. College enrollments are set to drop off a cliff, but the elite schools will be just as hard to get in as ever. It's already a great time to get deals on lower-profile colleges, though. Your kid can get a fantastic and cheap(er) education at a smaller SLAC, and you can bargain for tuition breaks, too. Just apply to several and then pit them against each other. They are so desperate right now because they are tuition-dependent. Ask me how I know...

https://www.chronicle.com/article/the-shrinking-of-higher-ed

This is behind the paywall so I can't read it. But those "smaller SLACs with a tuition break" - what type of college are we talking about? I presume this is not the Amherst / Williams / Pomona highly selective college but is it a place you'd actually want your kid to attend?

Seriously? Folks roll their eyes when they hear of the "no name" SLAC I attended then occasionally say "I've never heard of that." From that college, which offered merit for this working class kid, I attended an Ivy for grad. No one there seemed super focused on where anyone went to undergrad.

Frankly, it is a little sad when someone cleaves onto their UG Ivy or Little Ivy degree decades later. You worked, had a family, etc, but you still need to invoke that UG degree for status.

I went to a school that has been T30 for the past 25+ years and still gets a lot of “never heard of it”

People truly aren’t too bright out there in the real world

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College prof here. College enrollments are set to drop off a cliff, but the elite schools will be just as hard to get in as ever. It's already a great time to get deals on lower-profile colleges, though. Your kid can get a fantastic and cheap(er) education at a smaller SLAC, and you can bargain for tuition breaks, too. Just apply to several and then pit them against each other. They are so desperate right now because they are tuition-dependent. Ask me how I know...

https://www.chronicle.com/article/the-shrinking-of-higher-ed

This is behind the paywall so I can't read it. But those "smaller SLACs with a tuition break" - what type of college are we talking about? I presume this is not the Amherst / Williams / Pomona highly selective college but is it a place you'd actually want your kid to attend?

Seriously? Folks roll their eyes when they hear of the "no name" SLAC I attended then occasionally say "I've never heard of that." From that college, which offered merit for this working class kid, I attended an Ivy for grad. No one there seemed super focused on where anyone went to undergrad.

Frankly, it is a little sad when someone cleaves onto their UG Ivy or Little Ivy degree decades later. You worked, had a family, etc, but you still need to invoke that UG degree for status.

I went to a school that has been T30 for the past 25+ years and still gets a lot of “never heard of it”

People truly aren’t too bright out there in the real world

The main reason people in "the real world" hear about colleges is because of their sports teams.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College prof here. College enrollments are set to drop off a cliff, but the elite schools will be just as hard to get in as ever. It's already a great time to get deals on lower-profile colleges, though. Your kid can get a fantastic and cheap(er) education at a smaller SLAC, and you can bargain for tuition breaks, too. Just apply to several and then pit them against each other. They are so desperate right now because they are tuition-dependent. Ask me how I know...

https://www.chronicle.com/article/the-shrinking-of-higher-ed

This is behind the paywall so I can't read it. But those "smaller SLACs with a tuition break" - what type of college are we talking about? I presume this is not the Amherst / Williams / Pomona highly selective college but is it a place you'd actually want your kid to attend?

Seriously? Folks roll their eyes when they hear of the "no name" SLAC I attended then occasionally say "I've never heard of that." From that college, which offered merit for this working class kid, I attended an Ivy for grad. No one there seemed super focused on where anyone went to undergrad.

Frankly, it is a little sad when someone cleaves onto their UG Ivy or Little Ivy degree decades later. You worked, had a family, etc, but you still need to invoke that UG degree for status.

I went to a school that has been T30 for the past 25+ years and still gets a lot of “never heard of it”

People truly aren’t too bright out there in the real world

The main reason people in "the real world" hear about colleges is because of their sports teams.

True

We used to have a great basketball team (one of our last great players is a still playing in the NBA). And the football team has been decent occasionally in the past 15 years. But generally, too hard to compete against the much bigger division I programs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College prof here. College enrollments are set to drop off a cliff, but the elite schools will be just as hard to get in as ever. It's already a great time to get deals on lower-profile colleges, though. Your kid can get a fantastic and cheap(er) education at a smaller SLAC, and you can bargain for tuition breaks, too. Just apply to several and then pit them against each other. They are so desperate right now because they are tuition-dependent. Ask me how I know...

https://www.chronicle.com/article/the-shrinking-of-higher-ed

This is behind the paywall so I can't read it. But those "smaller SLACs with a tuition break" - what type of college are we talking about? I presume this is not the Amherst / Williams / Pomona highly selective college but is it a place you'd actually want your kid to attend?

Seriously? Folks roll their eyes when they hear of the "no name" SLAC I attended then occasionally say "I've never heard of that." From that college, which offered merit for this working class kid, I attended an Ivy for grad. No one there seemed super focused on where anyone went to undergrad.

Frankly, it is a little sad when someone cleaves onto their UG Ivy or Little Ivy degree decades later. You worked, had a family, etc, but you still need to invoke that UG degree for status.

I went to a school that has been T30 for the past 25+ years and still gets a lot of “never heard of it”

People truly aren’t too bright out there in the real world

You don't care what some average not-too-bright person in the real world thinks about it, you care what a hiring manager for a prestigious / rewarding / upwardly mobile job thinks about it. That hiring manager will have heard of Williams or Amherst, but if that manager has not heard of Bates or Carleton then that decision isn't going to go well if your kid went there and is competing against the "brand name" grads.

[Anonymous]

Well, hiring managers should have heard of my school. I know it got me in the door in my early years for interviews.

Not everyone can go to the top schools, though. And not everyone can afford the top schools.

In the less than 25 years since I graduated my school, the price of one year is now what my parents paid for the entire 4 I went.

We don’t make 4 times what my parents made.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:10:10 again. It also feels like I'm being overly critical. All these schools offered interesting courses and had beautifully laid out campuses (no A/C in a lot of dorms though). I can't put my finger on WHY none of us were enthused. For us parents, perhaps it was the price sinking in. We'd rather pay just for the courses, you know? Seems like the manicured grounds, athletic complex and all the extras are weighing down the budget here DS was looking for small classes and a particular program, and he'd rather go to a less selective school that has that program than these beautiful SLACs, even if the classes are bigger. His preferred school is *even more expensive*, but since it's less selective, he's hoping for merit aid and the school did say that they offered some at his range of stats.


We really should be moving towards a European-style, subsidized post-secondary education, with just the academics, no frills. That way, more people will have the opportunity to receive a better education, and we might avoid election pitfalls such as our ongoing political saga.

As someone with one of these European educations you idealize, I really hope the US doesn’t go that way. I think it would be a terrible loss.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:College prof here. College enrollments are set to drop off a cliff, but the elite schools will be just as hard to get in as ever. It's already a great time to get deals on lower-profile colleges, though. Your kid can get a fantastic and cheap(er) education at a smaller SLAC, and you can bargain for tuition breaks, too. Just apply to several and then pit them against each other. They are so desperate right now because they are tuition-dependent. Ask me how I know...

https://www.chronicle.com/article/the-shrinking-of-higher-ed

This. The enrollment cliff is coming. Will affect smaller schools and state schools but not elite schools.