NVSL team "most improved" awards

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is unbelievable. Our NVSL team has lost improved awards in each age group. It isn’t based on numbers or advanced math or any super secret formula. It goes to the kids who the coaches think worked hardest to get better, irrespective of the baseline.

Also, I can’t think of anyone who has ever been jealous or disappointed or thought that they lost become of some grand conspiracy. Maybe that’s in part because our team is small enough that the winner is usually an obvious choice. But it’s also likely because we are supportive bunch and choose to celebrate those who did win as opposed to dwelling on not winning.

Summer swim is supposed to be fun. Threads like this and the age group thread and others make it clear that some have lost that perspective.

Maybe it is the difference between a big and a small team then. I'm the PP who said that our "most improved" awards (and, in fact, all awards) only go to A meet swimmers. Our swim team is over 200 kids though, and our head coach doesn't know all of the A meet swimmers, let alone the B meet swimmers. The coaches awards and "most improved" awards almost always go to the A meet kids who have paid her for private lessons on the side. Summer swim should be fun, but our team loses a lot of kids by the 11-12 and 13-14 age groups who get tired of being ignored at practice every summer and just give up. This year, our team reps and the coach even decided to stop giving out "end of year" individual medals. The B meet kids, and A meet kids who didn't medal at divisionals, just walked away with a paper plate at the banquet and many were sad about it. (And my own kid got dual medals at divisionals, so I am not saying this out of sour grapes.) I would love to see our "most improved" trophies go to B meet swimmers next year to be more inclusive, so I appreciate the OP's question and hearing how other teams do it.

Our team gives each swimmer who swam in at least one A or B meet a personalized trophy (in addition to doing the most improved and coaches’ awards, etc.). We’ve done it that way for years. Probably unnecessary for the older kids, but the younger kids love it. We are a middle division team with ~100 swimmers.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our pool gives out the award but I don’t know how it’s calculated re: A/B times or which strokes. I do know it’s a percentage improvement not a number of seconds.

I also can’t imagine that a kid knows all the other kids times well enough to feel they were robbed. By the nature of the award, a kid who gets it is probably not swimming A meets to start the season.

I’ll add in that at our pool it’s a way to give an award to a kid that didn’t get a lot of meet time or ribbons. If your kid is swimming A meets and placing all season, then it’s just greedy to be quibbling over how “most improved” or “best sportsmanship” are determined.
As many have said on other threads - summer Swim is Rec league. Summer swim is FUN. Summer swim is social. If you or your kid is that competitive about swimming, there are other outlets for you. Leave summer swim alone.

I agree with this sentiment, but oddly at our pool, the "most improved" always goes to an A meet swimmer. It never goes to B meet swimmers, even the ones who drop huge amounts of time. I think it is only time dropped at A meets. So I understand where OP is coming from, because I think the award does make the B meet kids feel invisible at our banquet.

This is just plain wrong. I can see it going to a B meet swimmer who works hard, drops a lot of time and makes A meets. But this is the one award that B meet swimmers can get - it shouldn't go to a kid who swims A meets on a regular basis just because they dropped time.

This is also an NVSL issue. A lot of coaches are paid to seed and win A meets. Because of that, there are issues with them not even knowing/caring about the B meet kids. We are fighting that culture with the coaches, but it is terrible.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This thread is unbelievable. Our NVSL team has lost improved awards in each age group. It isn’t based on numbers or advanced math or any super secret formula. It goes to the kids who the coaches think worked hardest to get better, irrespective of the baseline.

Also, I can’t think of anyone who has ever been jealous or disappointed or thought that they lost become of some grand conspiracy. Maybe that’s in part because our team is small enough that the winner is usually an obvious choice. But it’s also likely because we are supportive bunch and choose to celebrate those who did win as opposed to dwelling on not winning.

Summer swim is supposed to be fun. Threads like this and the age group thread and others make it clear that some have lost that perspective.

I don't think this award should be a judgment call. Mathematically, we know exactly which boy/girl is the most i proved in each age group-the one who dropped the most time, which is always a new B meet kid.

[Anonymous]

Goodness! Maybe it’s not about times. Maybe it’s most improved effort or sportsmanship or whatever. Sometimes it’s that X factor that can’t be calculated with “advanced math”.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is unbelievable. Our NVSL team has lost improved awards in each age group. It isn’t based on numbers or advanced math or any super secret formula. It goes to the kids who the coaches think worked hardest to get better, irrespective of the baseline.

Also, I can’t think of anyone who has ever been jealous or disappointed or thought that they lost become of some grand conspiracy. Maybe that’s in part because our team is small enough that the winner is usually an obvious choice. But it’s also likely because we are supportive bunch and choose to celebrate those who did win as opposed to dwelling on not winning.

Summer swim is supposed to be fun. Threads like this and the age group thread and others make it clear that some have lost that perspective.

Maybe it is the difference between a big and a small team then. I'm the PP who said that our "most improved" awards (and, in fact, all awards) only go to A meet swimmers. Our swim team is over 200 kids though, and our head coach doesn't know all of the A meet swimmers, let alone the B meet swimmers. The coaches awards and "most improved" awards almost always go to the A meet kids who have paid her for private lessons on the side. Summer swim should be fun, but our team loses a lot of kids by the 11-12 and 13-14 age groups who get tired of being ignored at practice every summer and just give up. This year, our team reps and the coach even decided to stop giving out "end of year" individual medals. The B meet kids, and A meet kids who didn't medal at divisionals, just walked away with a paper plate at the banquet and many were sad about it. (And my own kid got dual medals at divisionals, so I am not saying this out of sour grapes.) I would love to see our "most improved" trophies go to B meet swimmers next year to be more inclusive, so I appreciate the OP's question and hearing how other teams do it.

Nope our team has 200 swimmers. Our most improved typically go to B meet swimmers. Our coaches, all of them, know the kids names and give feedback to each kid after every race regardless of whether it’s an A or B meet. When they gave out most improved they gave specifics on why they chose the kids and none had to do just with dropping time. This is one place where coaches can easily create a more cohesive team environment by recognizing B meet swimmers.

[Anonymous]

Our team uses software with percentages to do it. Prior to that, the coaches would calculate it using seconds dropped. I think they used to have more say because sometimes it was across all 4 strokes, sometimes in just one stroke - so they could pick the kid who worked hard. It’s pretty much always been a newish swimmer who really tried hard at practice. I’ve never seen a kid who would get 1st at an A meet get that award.

I’m really appreciating our fun/non-competitive swim team after reading DCUM.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is unbelievable. Our NVSL team has lost improved awards in each age group. It isn’t based on numbers or advanced math or any super secret formula. It goes to the kids who the coaches think worked hardest to get better, irrespective of the baseline.

Also, I can’t think of anyone who has ever been jealous or disappointed or thought that they lost become of some grand conspiracy. Maybe that’s in part because our team is small enough that the winner is usually an obvious choice. But it’s also likely because we are supportive bunch and choose to celebrate those who did win as opposed to dwelling on not winning.

Summer swim is supposed to be fun. Threads like this and the age group thread and others make it clear that some have lost that perspective.

Maybe it is the difference between a big and a small team then. I'm the PP who said that our "most improved" awards (and, in fact, all awards) only go to A meet swimmers. Our swim team is over 200 kids though, and our head coach doesn't know all of the A meet swimmers, let alone the B meet swimmers. The coaches awards and "most improved" awards almost always go to the A meet kids who have paid her for private lessons on the side. Summer swim should be fun, but our team loses a lot of kids by the 11-12 and 13-14 age groups who get tired of being ignored at practice every summer and just give up. This year, our team reps and the coach even decided to stop giving out "end of year" individual medals. The B meet kids, and A meet kids who didn't medal at divisionals, just walked away with a paper plate at the banquet and many were sad about it. (And my own kid got dual medals at divisionals, so I am not saying this out of sour grapes.) I would love to see our "most improved" trophies go to B meet swimmers next year to be more inclusive, so I appreciate the OP's question and hearing how other teams do it.

Our team gives each swimmer who swam in at least one A or B meet a personalized trophy (in addition to doing the most improved and coaches’ awards, etc.). We’ve done it that way for years. Probably unnecessary for the older kids, but the younger kids love it. We are a middle division team with ~100 swimmers.

Our team gives out paper plate awards and they are a fun inside joke amongst the team for each member. We have enough trophies and plaques. Each year my daughter remembers her paper plate awards.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Our team gives out paper plate awards and they are a fun inside joke amongst the team for each member. We have enough trophies and plaques. Each year my daughter remembers her paper plate awards.

Paper plate awards are the highlight of the team banquet. They are personalized to each child, our coaches have so much fun creating and decorating them and then reading each one aloud at the banquet. We have a few awards that do get trophies, including most improved and the sportsmanship trophies. My kids treasure their paper plate awards.

We used to give medals to every swimmer but it became cost prohibitive a few years ago when the team ballooned to over 200 swimmers. Our budget hasn't grown proportionately so we couldn't afford them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Goodness! Maybe it’s not about times. Maybe it’s most improved effort or sportsmanship or whatever. Sometimes it’s that X factor that can’t be calculated with “advanced math”.

Most Improved is straightforward math.
If a coach wants to give out a sportsmanship award, thats something different.

If my kid dropped the most time and didn't get the most improved award for his age/sex then I would want an explanation as well.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Goodness! Maybe it’s not about times. Maybe it’s most improved effort or sportsmanship or whatever. Sometimes it’s that X factor that can’t be calculated with “advanced math”.

Most Improved is straightforward math.
If a coach wants to give out a sportsmanship award, thats something different.

If my kid dropped the most time and didn't get the most improved award for his age/sex then I would want an explanation as well.

Each team may, of course, set their own rules. But even just focusing on the math may not be straightforward. For example, is it a greater improvement for (a) a new swimmer to drop from 1:30 to 0:45 in freestyle, or (b) for a more experienced swimmer to drop from 0:40 to 0:25 in free, or (c) for swimmer to learn a new stroke and go from illegal in breast to a 0:30 breast? These things all happen with 8&Us. And a reasonable argument could be made for any to be the greatest improvement. I actually think that (a), which the greatest time drop — both in raw time and percentage — if you are using pure math — shows the least improvement of the three because it is very easy to drop significant time as a beginner.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Our team uses software with percentages to do it. Prior to that, the coaches would calculate it using seconds dropped. I think they used to have more say because sometimes it was across all 4 strokes, sometimes in just one stroke - so they could pick the kid who worked hard. It’s pretty much always been a newish swimmer who really tried hard at practice. I’ve never seen a kid who would get 1st at an A meet get that award.

I’m really appreciating our fun/non-competitive swim team after reading DCUM.

One of our "most improved" awards this year went to a swimmer who made All Stars. The swimmer did drop time this summer, but was already pretty darn good to begin with (i.e., placing 1-2-3 in all the A meets out of the gate, and never dropping below the Top 18 all season). The A meet kids haul away everything at the banquet. We do paper plates too, but honestly the coaches hardly know the B meet kids so the paper plates are so generic for them. They will say things like "Keep Kicking!" not anything personal. I think we have an issue with our coach though, who will work with the kids who pay her for lessons but then ignores everyone else at practice, even some of the A meet kids. But the parents who work the system won't say anything because their kids take home the trophies every year. We have one year-round A meet kid who seems to win a "most improved" trophy every single year. Glad to hear other pools aren't as dysfunctional!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is unbelievable. Our NVSL team has lost improved awards in each age group. It isn’t based on numbers or advanced math or any super secret formula. It goes to the kids who the coaches think worked hardest to get better, irrespective of the baseline.

Also, I can’t think of anyone who has ever been jealous or disappointed or thought that they lost become of some grand conspiracy. Maybe that’s in part because our team is small enough that the winner is usually an obvious choice. But it’s also likely because we are supportive bunch and choose to celebrate those who did win as opposed to dwelling on not winning.

Summer swim is supposed to be fun. Threads like this and the age group thread and others make it clear that some have lost that perspective.

Maybe it is the difference between a big and a small team then. I'm the PP who said that our "most improved" awards (and, in fact, all awards) only go to A meet swimmers. Our swim team is over 200 kids though, and our head coach doesn't know all of the A meet swimmers, let alone the B meet swimmers. The coaches awards and "most improved" awards almost always go to the A meet kids who have paid her for private lessons on the side. Summer swim should be fun, but our team loses a lot of kids by the 11-12 and 13-14 age groups who get tired of being ignored at practice every summer and just give up. This year, our team reps and the coach even decided to stop giving out "end of year" individual medals. The B meet kids, and A meet kids who didn't medal at divisionals, just walked away with a paper plate at the banquet and many were sad about it. (And my own kid got dual medals at divisionals, so I am not saying this out of sour grapes.) I would love to see our "most improved" trophies go to B meet swimmers next year to be more inclusive, so I appreciate the OP's question and hearing how other teams do it.

You need a new coach.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Goodness! Maybe it’s not about times. Maybe it’s most improved effort or sportsmanship or whatever. Sometimes it’s that X factor that can’t be calculated with “advanced math”.

Most Improved is straightforward math.
If a coach wants to give out a sportsmanship award, thats something different.

If my kid dropped the most time and didn't get the most improved award for his age/sex then I would want an explanation as well.

Are you actually spending even a moment of your time during your busy summer thinking about this, much less actually doing the math for each swimmer on your child’s summer swim team?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our team uses software with percentages to do it. Prior to that, the coaches would calculate it using seconds dropped. I think they used to have more say because sometimes it was across all 4 strokes, sometimes in just one stroke - so they could pick the kid who worked hard. It’s pretty much always been a newish swimmer who really tried hard at practice. I’ve never seen a kid who would get 1st at an A meet get that award.

I’m really appreciating our fun/non-competitive swim team after reading DCUM.

One of our "most improved" awards this year went to a swimmer who made All Stars. The swimmer did drop time this summer, but was already pretty darn good to begin with (i.e., placing 1-2-3 in all the A meets out of the gate, and never dropping below the Top 18 all season). The A meet kids haul away everything at the banquet. We do paper plates too, but honestly the coaches hardly know the B meet kids so the paper plates are so generic for them. They will say things like "Keep Kicking!" not anything personal. I think we have an issue with our coach though, who will work with the kids who pay her for lessons but then ignores everyone else at practice, even some of the A meet kids. But the parents who work the system won't say anything because their kids take home the trophies every year. We have one year-round A meet kid who seems to win a "most improved" trophy every single year. Glad to hear other pools aren't as dysfunctional!

Our dive team and the coach are like this. The beginner divers and those who just aren’t as good get completely overlooked at practice and at the banquet. The coach is a very competitive individual who likes her team to win and gives most of her attention to the top performers. The team does well in part because the kids who aren’t top performers tend to drop out after a year or two because they see the coach isn’t interested in spending time with them. My kids were in the middle of the pack but lost interest in the team after their second awards banquet.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Maybe it is the difference between a big and a small team then. I'm the PP who said that our "most improved" awards (and, in fact, all awards) only go to A meet swimmers. Our swim team is over 200 kids though, and our head coach doesn't know all of the A meet swimmers, let alone the B meet swimmers. The coaches awards and "most improved" awards almost always go to the A meet kids who have paid her for private lessons on the side. Summer swim should be fun, but our team loses a lot of kids by the 11-12 and 13-14 age groups who get tired of being ignored at practice every summer and just give up. This year, our team reps and the coach even decided to stop giving out "end of year" individual medals. The B meet kids, and A meet kids who didn't medal at divisionals, just walked away with a paper plate at the banquet and many were sad about it. (And my own kid got dual medals at divisionals, so I am not saying this out of sour grapes.) I would love to see our "most improved" trophies go to B meet swimmers next year to be more inclusive, so I appreciate the OP's question and hearing how other teams do it.

You need a new coach.

+1. We have over 200 kids and set a very clear expectation that our coaches should know the kids by name. Our junior coaches seem to divide up the team a bit so that Larla and Larlo focus on the 8 and unders, Aidan and Emily on the 9-10s and so on that way every kid has at least 2 or 3 coaches who know their names and give feedback after their races.

We are a mid-tier pool so while winning is nice it isn't the pure focus of our team.