ACPS Needs More High Schools

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are still in ES but my understanding is that ACHS is very much segregated. I hear this all the time from white parents as they defend ACHS and ACPS. They describe it as their kids are "safe". They "don't see" the violence because they are in honors or AP classes and not with the general population. These parents have described with relief how their kids are in an entire separate section of the building.

Are their descriptions accurate?

It is somewhat, but not for electives, sports, and lunch and learn. We actually very much value the integrated aspects of the school. With that, it is a very small percentage of the student population causing any issues, but there is a constant worry of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, so not targeted violence, but just caught up in the melee.

Why is any of the segregation acceptable? What is the percentage you cite?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I agree that they need more high schools, but I don't think that separating students out by demographics is the answer. They need another high school because it is too crowded, and because it is tough for kids to get involved in sports and activities with so many kids enrolled in one school.

Agree. And there are many ways to have a second high school and avoid segregation. Never seen any other jurisdiction insist on keeping all high school students in one overcrowded campus no matter how large enrollment grows. Such a lack of initiative or creativity on ACPS’s part. I guess their paid private consultants just couldn’t dream anything up.

One single overcrowded campus absolutely magnifies issues and enables the chaos we see at ACHS. It’s a damn shame.

There is also some good research about the benefits of smaller schools and that this model of gigantic schools is outdated. The pandemic just further emphasizes this. What a missed opportunity to “reimagine” things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I agree that they need more high schools, but I don't think that separating students out by demographics is the answer. They need another high school because it is too crowded, and because it is tough for kids to get involved in sports and activities with so many kids enrolled in one school.

Agree. And there are many ways to have a second high school and avoid segregation. Never seen any other jurisdiction insist on keeping all high school students in one overcrowded campus no matter how large enrollment grows. Such a lack of initiative or creativity on ACPS’s part. I guess their paid private consultants just couldn’t dream anything up.

One single overcrowded campus absolutely magnifies issues and enables the chaos we see at ACHS. It’s a damn shame.

There is also some good research about the benefits of smaller schools and that this model of gigantic schools is outdated. The pandemic just further emphasizes this. What a missed opportunity to “reimagine” things.

But there is segregation right now at ACHS. Why is that acceptable to Alexandrians, parents, students, Hutchings and the school board? It seems silly to talk about potential segregation at a school that doesn't exist but ignore the segregation that exists at the current school.

Why isn't Hutchings doing more/anything about it? He's literally publishing a book recommending how to manage an anti-racist school district and yet he's not actually doing any of it.

[Anonymous]

Is there a reason why parents can't form a group to advocate for more high schools in the city?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are still in ES but my understanding is that ACHS is very much segregated. I hear this all the time from white parents as they defend ACHS and ACPS. They describe it as their kids are "safe". They "don't see" the violence because they are in honors or AP classes and not with the general population. These parents have described with relief how their kids are in an entire separate section of the building.

Are their descriptions accurate?

It is somewhat, but not for electives, sports, and lunch and learn. We actually very much value the integrated aspects of the school. With that, it is a very small percentage of the student population causing any issues, but there is a constant worry of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, so not targeted violence, but just caught up in the melee.

Why is any of the segregation acceptable? What is the percentage you cite?

Was answering the comment. On DCUM, it is really an art to navigating these questions. Yes, there is some de facto segregation at the school, it sucks.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are still in ES but my understanding is that ACHS is very much segregated. I hear this all the time from white parents as they defend ACHS and ACPS. They describe it as their kids are "safe". They "don't see" the violence because they are in honors or AP classes and not with the general population. These parents have described with relief how their kids are in an entire separate section of the building.

Are their descriptions accurate?

It is somewhat, but not for electives, sports, and lunch and learn. We actually very much value the integrated aspects of the school. With that, it is a very small percentage of the student population causing any issues, but there is a constant worry of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, so not targeted violence, but just caught up in the melee.

Why is any of the segregation acceptable? What is the percentage you cite?

Was answering the comment. On DCUM, it is really an art to navigating these questions. Yes, there is some de facto segregation at the school, it sucks.

Why is such a liberal city, ok with this?

Hutchings needs to practice what he preaches from his op-ed:

"Dismantle intraschool segregation. Public schools developed widespread tracking and barriers to rigorous courses within schools after integration in the late 1960s and early 1970s. These practices have hindered BIPOC students over several decades and continued to create segregation in education today. Public schools have created intentional and unintentional mechanisms to keep BIPOC students from accessing rigorous curricula, including talented and gifted programs, specialized instructional practices, and stringent guidelines to enroll in certain advanced-level courses.

Abolish policing practices in schools. Policing is a controversial national discussion, and schools are not immune to this controversy. Discipline for BIPOC students has mirrored some policing practices that have contributed to the prison pipeline for decades. From zero-tolerance policies to arrests in schools for disciplinary infractions, U.S. public schools have harmed BIPOC students by implementing disciplinary policies derived from policing. A focus on the social and emotional needs of students, including restorative practices, instead of suspension and expulsion practices, is key to abolishing policing in schools."

He has the full support from the school board. As he says later in the op-ed, its time to be courageous and bold. Parents need to stop being ok with the segregation and and shrugging it off with "it sucks" because it likely benefits them.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The MH building should just be a second high school. My spouse went to HS in a town with two HSs about half a mile from each other, as that was the only way to draw boundaries in a way to make them socio-economically diverse. They are huge rivals, and, there are some boundary exceptions that seem to coincide with the skill at a certain sport, but it works. There is just no desire in this town to deviate from one huge, dysfunctional, equitably mediocre school.

Yes, making MH it's own separate high school with it's own resources and opportunities makes much more sense than having one giant campus that lets unsupervised students congregate violently in shopping centers on their way to the other campus.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What does having only one HS have to do with this? Or is it just that your want a second HS so that your kids won’t be zoned to the same school as the kids who were involved in this incident?

Having over 4000 kids in one school amplifies any problem because you have twice as many people to get involved in conflicts. It's much harder to spot and identify problems because there are just too many kids to manage. People fall through the cracks because when you have 4000+ kids the cracks are bigger and easier too all through (not just with this type of incident, but also with general academic and emotional support). It's easier to hide bad behavior when you're one of a large faceless number.

FWIW I also think that there are ways to divide the district that don't just fall along a geographic divide.

100% all of this. Arts-focused school STEM-focused school, trade-school--they could be district-wide and open to anyone via lottery or application. Doesn't need to be west side vs east side.

It's lack of will, lack of creativity, lack of ... who knows what. Why are throngs of students outside in the middle of the day? It's not open campus. I'll tell you why: there's too many kids in general + having kids at MH need to travel to King Street for classes daily for classes + inconsistent, unclear protocols on SOL testings days. All leads to various forms of chaos.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids are still in ES but my understanding is that ACHS is very much segregated. I hear this all the time from white parents as they defend ACHS and ACPS. They describe it as their kids are "safe". They "don't see" the violence because they are in honors or AP classes and not with the general population. These parents have described with relief how their kids are in an entire separate section of the building.

Are their descriptions accurate?

It is somewhat, but not for electives, sports, and lunch and learn. We actually very much value the integrated aspects of the school. With that, it is a very small percentage of the student population causing any issues, but there is a constant worry of being in the wrong place at the wrong time, so not targeted violence, but just caught up in the melee.

Why is any of the segregation acceptable? What is the percentage you cite?

Was answering the comment. On DCUM, it is really an art to navigating these questions. Yes, there is some de facto segregation at the school, it sucks.

Why is such a liberal city, ok with this?

Hutchings needs to practice what he preaches from his op-ed:

"Dismantle intraschool segregation. Public schools developed widespread tracking and barriers to rigorous courses within schools after integration in the late 1960s and early 1970s. These practices have hindered BIPOC students over several decades and continued to create segregation in education today. Public schools have created intentional and unintentional mechanisms to keep BIPOC students from accessing rigorous curricula, including talented and gifted programs, specialized instructional practices, and stringent guidelines to enroll in certain advanced-level courses.

Abolish policing practices in schools. Policing is a controversial national discussion, and schools are not immune to this controversy. Discipline for BIPOC students has mirrored some policing practices that have contributed to the prison pipeline for decades. From zero-tolerance policies to arrests in schools for disciplinary infractions, U.S. public schools have harmed BIPOC students by implementing disciplinary policies derived from policing. A focus on the social and emotional needs of students, including restorative practices, instead of suspension and expulsion practices, is key to abolishing policing in schools."

He has the full support from the school board. As he says later in the op-ed, its time to be courageous and bold. Parents need to stop being ok with the segregation and and shrugging it off with "it sucks" because it likely benefits them.

Until there is something done to make the schools safe, being bold just seems a bit too much. I just want to know guns and knives are not in the school, and for there is to be a week without a violent assault.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Is there a reason why parents can't form a group to advocate for more high schools in the city?

Go ahead, but get ready to get canceled?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Is there a reason why parents can't form a group to advocate for more high schools in the city?

Go ahead, but get ready to get canceled?

+1 Except that it isn't a question mark. You will be cancelled.

The responses I hear about all the reasons to not have a second high school remind me of 10 years ago when I was asking why it was ok to have the high school named after TC Williams. All the excuses & defenses are laughable just like they were then.

[Anonymous]

The segregation at ACHS is self segregation. The students segregate themselves, often starting in middle school.

This is not uncommon at any school anywhere. Do I like it, not really. But keeping one high school doesn’t negate any self segregation. According to my kids, there is significant tension among AA and Hispanic students. I don’t know why. I wish there wasn’t. What exactly are the school board, city council, the mayor and special interests groups like TWU doing about it? Putting their heads in the sand does nothing. Acting like they’re aren’t gangs in high school or that certain groups “have beef” also does nothing. From what I have heard from several ACHS students is that 47, as well as several Hispanic gangs, are prevalent at the high school. It’s such a shame. But no one does anything about it.

[Anonymous]

Can you explain why parents would be cancelled for advocating for thier children's safety? It sounds like everyone on this board wants more high schools and has good ideas. What would be wrong with getting some yard signs made and lobbying for these good ideas?

I for one do not want to have to move or find money for private school when my child reaches high school age. No parents should have to worry about thier child being in the wrong place at the wrong time in that giant high school. Not to mention how the students must be feeling knowing that a classmate was murdered in the middle of the school day!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The segregation at ACHS is self segregation. The students segregate themselves, often starting in middle school.

This is not uncommon at any school anywhere. Do I like it, not really. But keeping one high school doesn’t negate any self segregation. According to my kids, there is significant tension among AA and Hispanic students. I don’t know why. I wish there wasn’t. What exactly are the school board, city council, the mayor and special interests groups like TWU doing about it? Putting their heads in the sand does nothing. Acting like they’re aren’t gangs in high school or that certain groups “have beef” also does nothing. From what I have heard from several ACHS students is that 47, as well as several Hispanic gangs, are prevalent at the high school. It’s such a shame. But no one does anything about it.

This. But we did notice in elementary. Like kids what to hang out in their free time with like kids. The school can't mandate that away. It's human nature and it just happens even in adults.

I think part of the problem is that the one school would be better than the other. This would force a lot of the liberal parents into a position where they would have to say out loud they are picking the better school and don't really care about diversity as much when it comes to effecting their child's education and college prospects. To avoid that, they could force all students into a random lottery to be assigned to one of the 2 schools. Or as someone else said Minnie Howard could just be totally rebuilt into a second high school. Also part of the no second high school was a belief that they would have students doing virtual learning [this was prepandemic] and thus reduce the need for physical space. The pandemic showed that it would not be a good way to teach the majority of students.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Can you explain why parents would be cancelled for advocating for thier children's safety? It sounds like everyone on this board wants more high schools and has good ideas. What would be wrong with getting some yard signs made and lobbying for these good ideas?

I for one do not want to have to move or find money for private school when my child reaches high school age. No parents should have to worry about thier child being in the wrong place at the wrong time in that giant high school. Not to mention how the students must be feeling knowing that a classmate was murdered in the middle of the school day!

I've found that it's the Alexandria way. There are a lot of reasons. If you advocate or even gently criticize ACPS (or the Mayor/Council), parents will quickly turn on you. This is the culture.

There is a reason you don't see any parent engagement at school board meetings. People know that their kids will be bullied, or they won't get invited to the neighborhood BBQ, your kids won't get a spot on a sports team.

Part of this is because they are invested. They don't want their property values to decline so it's best to keep quiet and pretend that the school sysstem is fine. If you can get your kids out of ACHS unscathed, they have a better chance of getting into a "good college" than if they go to a private. While this benefits mostly white upper middle class families...everyone else gets screwed.

There is also a bizarre reverence for local government officials in this town. It's very very strange and the effects are sickening.