MCCPTA Gifted Education Committee's Complaint about Systemic Failures by MCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Thank you for posting this on DCUM.
I support the work of the Gifted Education Committee.

One of my children was shut out of a seat at a magnet middle school, despite excellent grades and high MAP scores, and finding CES instruction very easy. The lottery discriminates against high-performing students, and relegates them to general education classes that cannot be sufficiently adjusted, despite the best efforts of the teachers. As a result, my child hates school, because she spends her school days rather bored and frustrated.

Not only that, but MCPS does not implement equal access to accelerated classes in each of their schools. I learned that some middle schools offered Algebra 1 to 6th graders in reasonably good standing, but my child's middle school refused her entry to that class, despite consistently high MAP-M scores, and despite administering a test the summer before 6th grade, on which she answered most questions correctly. I was shown that test: it consisted mostly of Algebra 1 content. She was asked to do well on the content of the class she was asking to enroll in, not on the content of class she was asking to skip! And, when she made a few mistakes, she was refused entry.

It's incredibly short-sighted of MCPS to abandon a portion of the students they serve, the very group that has the potential to do great things, and increase the risk that they become un-motivated, depressed and isolated because they are not adequately challenged.

Many kids are shut out. High map is subjective.

I think it shows readiness and is a good indicator of how a student will perform in some areas.

MAP is good at measuring whether a child has been exposed to specific materials before. It is very bad at measuring innate intelligence or "giftedness." One of the ironies of MCPS not administering CoGAT is that CoGAT is a much better tool for surfacing highly able kids who have simply not had the opportunity to access accelerated materials. It is a better tool for equity because it's harder to prep for, and better at finding "diamonds in the rough" than MAP, which is highly suceptible to prepping.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Thank you for posting this on DCUM.
I support the work of the Gifted Education Committee.

One of my children was shut out of a seat at a magnet middle school, despite excellent grades and high MAP scores, and finding CES instruction very easy. The lottery discriminates against high-performing students, and relegates them to general education classes that cannot be sufficiently adjusted, despite the best efforts of the teachers. As a result, my child hates school, because she spends her school days rather bored and frustrated.

Not only that, but MCPS does not implement equal access to accelerated classes in each of their schools. I learned that some middle schools offered Algebra 1 to 6th graders in reasonably good standing, but my child's middle school refused her entry to that class, despite consistently high MAP-M scores, and despite administering a test the summer before 6th grade, on which she answered most questions correctly. I was shown that test: it consisted mostly of Algebra 1 content. She was asked to do well on the content of the class she was asking to enroll in, not on the content of class she was asking to skip! And, when she made a few mistakes, she was refused entry.

It's incredibly short-sighted of MCPS to abandon a portion of the students they serve, the very group that has the potential to do great things, and increase the risk that they become un-motivated, depressed and isolated because they are not adequately challenged.

Many kids are shut out. High map is subjective.

I think it shows readiness and is a good indicator of how a student will perform in some areas.

You missed the point. OP may think her child's scores were high, but they may not have been very high. Even in the past 95-98% kids were shut out, so except if her kids were consistently in the 99% or higher, they might not have had a chance regardless of the lottery.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Thank you for posting this on DCUM.
I support the work of the Gifted Education Committee.

One of my children was shut out of a seat at a magnet middle school, despite excellent grades and high MAP scores, and finding CES instruction very easy. The lottery discriminates against high-performing students, and relegates them to general education classes that cannot be sufficiently adjusted, despite the best efforts of the teachers. As a result, my child hates school, because she spends her school days rather bored and frustrated.

Not only that, but MCPS does not implement equal access to accelerated classes in each of their schools. I learned that some middle schools offered Algebra 1 to 6th graders in reasonably good standing, but my child's middle school refused her entry to that class, despite consistently high MAP-M scores, and despite administering a test the summer before 6th grade, on which she answered most questions correctly. I was shown that test: it consisted mostly of Algebra 1 content. She was asked to do well on the content of the class she was asking to enroll in, not on the content of class she was asking to skip! And, when she made a few mistakes, she was refused entry.

It's incredibly short-sighted of MCPS to abandon a portion of the students they serve, the very group that has the potential to do great things, and increase the risk that they become un-motivated, depressed and isolated because they are not adequately challenged.

It isn't only classes it is also offerings like math and science teams. My first two kids went to magnet middle school programs, while the 2 younger kids went to Newport Mill Middle School. I don't have a kid there now, but NMMS had very lackluster afterschool offerings. Very little interest in academic teams unlike magnet MS programs where these types of "clubs" are well supported by staff and parents. If you have had kids go through the magnets and the comprehensive programs, you realize there is a huge difference in opportunities for students who are really into academics. Newport Mill is not the only MS I've heard complaints about among my parent friends.

Some aspects of the curriculum are very tightly controlled by central office whereas others (like letting 6th graders take Algebra I) seem to be left to individual principals. It is confusing to parents and unfair to children.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Isn't the VA also on a 3-year run, in the sense that funding for it will end after 3 years? VA students can't take Cogat at home. Just wondering if there's a connection there. Perhaps Cogat can return once VA funding ends. Or if new VA funding is found, Cogat goes away indefinitely.

I mean, there was always a protocol for home schoolers and private schoolers to take the Cogat at their neighborhood school. I can't imagine that's the holdup.

But how unwieldy is that in practice? They'd have to dedicate a lot of resources to each VA child to take the test at their local elementary - scheduling, proctoring, processing. I'd imagine it would take a lot of extra teacher time at a lot of different schools.

Not all home schools allow the testing. Ours did not this year. Mccpta does not care about virtual kids so it’s a nonissue with them.

There was no testing this year other than MAP. So there was nothing for the home school to allow or not allow.

As for how unwieldy it is in practice, to PPs point, what they did in past years was just tell each home school or private school family to reach out and find the date/time for their home school. The 'outside' kid then did the test alongside their neighborhood peers. It was pretty easy.

What are you talking about? There were MCAP for some kids, which is a graduation requirement.

Right, but cogat wasn't administered this year. That's what we were talking about, whether VA kids would be able to take the cogat.

[Anonymous]

My child is in one of the 4 local CES school, will CES lottery apply to students within the school?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:
Thank you for posting this on DCUM.
I support the work of the Gifted Education Committee.

One of my children was shut out of a seat at a magnet middle school, despite excellent grades and high MAP scores, and finding CES instruction very easy. The lottery discriminates against high-performing students, and relegates them to general education classes that cannot be sufficiently adjusted, despite the best efforts of the teachers. As a result, my child hates school, because she spends her school days rather bored and frustrated.

Not only that, but MCPS does not implement equal access to accelerated classes in each of their schools. I learned that some middle schools offered Algebra 1 to 6th graders in reasonably good standing, but my child's middle school refused her entry to that class, despite consistently high MAP-M scores, and despite administering a test the summer before 6th grade, on which she answered most questions correctly. I was shown that test: it consisted mostly of Algebra 1 content. She was asked to do well on the content of the class she was asking to enroll in, not on the content of class she was asking to skip! And, when she made a few mistakes, she was refused entry.

It's incredibly short-sighted of MCPS to abandon a portion of the students they serve, the very group that has the potential to do great things, and increase the risk that they become un-motivated, depressed and isolated because they are not adequately challenged.

I also appreciate the MCCPTA efforts to highlight a significant problem in MCPS when it comes to meeting the educational needs of students.

Students with disabilities also are at risk of becoming unmotivated, depressed, and isolated when they do not receive an appropriate education. Students with disabilities often are excluded from challenging programs in MCPS even though they have educational testing that show high IQ and areas of strengths that exceed the norm.

Students with disabilities did not have access to accommodations and services during online learning. Despite initial promises by MCPS, most students with disabilities have not received compensatory services to make up for 18 months of a denial of FAPE.

MCPS does all students a disservice by dumbing down expectations and the curriculum. All students deserve access to programs they have the ability to do. Add more seats. Hire more teachers. Have a process where all schools can offer accelerated opportunities. Principals should all encourage advanced opportunities, not be gatekeepers to deny opportunities.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Thank you for posting this on DCUM.
I support the work of the Gifted Education Committee.

One of my children was shut out of a seat at a magnet middle school, despite excellent grades and high MAP scores, and finding CES instruction very easy. The lottery discriminates against high-performing students, and relegates them to general education classes that cannot be sufficiently adjusted, despite the best efforts of the teachers. As a result, my child hates school, because she spends her school days rather bored and frustrated.

Not only that, but MCPS does not implement equal access to accelerated classes in each of their schools. I learned that some middle schools offered Algebra 1 to 6th graders in reasonably good standing, but my child's middle school refused her entry to that class, despite consistently high MAP-M scores, and despite administering a test the summer before 6th grade, on which she answered most questions correctly. I was shown that test: it consisted mostly of Algebra 1 content. She was asked to do well on the content of the class she was asking to enroll in, not on the content of class she was asking to skip! And, when she made a few mistakes, she was refused entry.

It's incredibly short-sighted of MCPS to abandon a portion of the students they serve, the very group that has the potential to do great things, and increase the risk that they become un-motivated, depressed and isolated because they are not adequately challenged.

I also appreciate the MCCPTA efforts to highlight a significant problem in MCPS when it comes to meeting the educational needs of students.

Students with disabilities also are at risk of becoming unmotivated, depressed, and isolated when they do not receive an appropriate education. Students with disabilities often are excluded from challenging programs in MCPS even though they have educational testing that show high IQ and areas of strengths that exceed the norm.

Students with disabilities did not have access to accommodations and services during online learning. Despite initial promises by MCPS, most students with disabilities have not received compensatory services to make up for 18 months of a denial of FAPE.

MCPS does all students a disservice by dumbing down expectations and the curriculum. All students deserve access to programs they have the ability to do. Add more seats. Hire more teachers. Have a process where all schools can offer accelerated opportunities. Principals should all encourage advanced opportunities, not be gatekeepers to deny opportunities.

+1 million.

[Anonymous]

I'm shocked at the MCPS response and whoever is in charge should be fired.
We need a judge to make them comply and to expose this to more taxpayers. Are you listening Bethesda Beat person and other reporters?


The PTA asked for very basic information that should require one of their data people about a half hour to produce.
Yet they claim it will take a huge amount of time and will be very expensive to produce. This is a complete lie and everyone knows it.

SHAME ON YOU MCPS

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm shocked at the MCPS response and whoever is in charge should be fired.
We need a judge to make them comply and to expose this to more taxpayers. Are you listening Bethesda Beat person and other reporters?


The PTA asked for very basic information that should require one of their data people about a half hour to produce.
Yet they claim it will take a huge amount of time and will be very expensive to produce. This is a complete lie and everyone knows it.

SHAME ON YOU MCPS

+1

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I'm shocked at the MCPS response and whoever is in charge should be fired.
We need a judge to make them comply and to expose this to more taxpayers. Are you listening Bethesda Beat person and other reporters?


The PTA asked for very basic information that should require one of their data people about a half hour to produce.
Yet they claim it will take a huge amount of time and will be very expensive to produce. This is a complete lie and everyone knows it.

SHAME ON YOU MCPS

MCPS staff routinely treat families and students with disrespect and failing to be transparent with data. Thank you for MCCPTA for filing the complaint. When parents file, there is no resolution just endless rounds of appeals with the General Counsel’s Office writing responses for the various levels including the Board of Education.

Dr. McKnight should be ashamed at the response of her employees. She has the power to change the corporate culture that has alienated teaching staff, parents, students, and now the MCCPTA.

[Anonymous]

GT programs should be based upon CogAT, not MAP. CogAT is race-neutral and nationally administered. MAP is basically whoever can afford tutors, imho.

Unfortunately, I don't think anything will change as long as the current board of education, superintendent and AEI team is in office. That will take years to flush out.

The handwriting was on the wall many years ago when Kurshanna Dean first took over, and now that staff is continuing the downward spiral. Kurshanna Dean moved on to an Asst P slot at Page ES, was it last year?

The history behind the lottery is shady. MCPS has never released how the "local" portion is done and is very secretive about how the lottery overall is performed (do they have lotto balls? dice? throw darts?)

It started back in 2018, when MCPS was caught discriminating against asians for lottery admissions.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/05/06/asian-students-are-victims-montgomery-countys-achievement-gap/

There was a complaint (I think around 2019?) that provided evidence that it wasn't possible for MCPS to have calculated the MCPS Percentile using the criteria they published and MCPS didn't deny it. That was the exact same year the Magnet program went lottery, btw.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Back in the "old days" we got sent to the library when we were too far ahead of the rest of the class.

And in the library you saw exactly who was motivated to learn and work independent of direction - and who just wasted their time.

OMG—fond memories of being sent to the library!!! Loved those teachers. But now with a chrome book Id probably just watch videos!

[Anonymous]

When there’s a lack of transparency, people loose trust in the institution. MCPS is trying to cover up a system that was designed to control who makes it in to the few slots and who is excluded. The sad part is that all students loose when they are denied an appropriate education. There needs to be better educational opportunities for all MCPS students.

[Anonymous]

I’ve had a kid in the CES program and a kid in the HSmagnet, both admitted using cogat plus MAP scores. I also went to a HS magnet in my own hometown, admitted using a cogat type test.
I don’t actually think the magnets need expanding. Most families would prefer their kids close to home. They need to expand the accelerated options at the home school, particularly upper ES and MS. Why don’t all ES have ELC? Why don’t all MS have a HIGH program for humanities? The MS English is an embarrassMent and a step down from the ELC program in ES. MS science is also basically an embarrassment but I’m not confident they have enough good science teachers at the MS level to implement something better. This country doesn’t educate enough people in science ans those who do can get better jobs.

[Anonymous]

I also appreciate the MCCPTA GEC advocacy. I agree with those who would like to take all of the eggs out of the magnet basket and upgrade home school curriculum. The state of Middle School curriculum is troubling for advanced learners. The two enriched classes (AIM HIGH) are better than nothing, but the level of instruction for English and Science should be upgraded. Too much filling in work sheets and busy work.

High School has lots of opportunities for kids to challenge themselves.