AAP Criteria

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both sides are correct. I'm the PP with the AART who said that each year, around 5 kids from their school get rejected who should have been accepted. Alongside those 5 kids are 25 kids who belonged in AAP and got in. The 5 wrongfully rejected kids generally get in on appeal, get in the following year, or get principal placed.

It stinks when your kid is one of the ones who has to deal with appeals or applying the next year when they should have been admitted. By the end of third grade, after two rounds of applications and appeals, the number of kids who belong in AAP but keep getting rejected is very small.

You nailed it! The system is merit based, but every year there are about 10% anomalies. It sucks if you fall in that 10%.
From my kid’s 2nd grade (2 sections) out of 8 kids I knew, 6 were accepted and 2 were not. Those 2 were Asians, may be that made the difference. I’m sure they will get in on an appeal.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Both sides are correct. I'm the PP with the AART who said that each year, around 5 kids from their school get rejected who should have been accepted. Alongside those 5 kids are 25 kids who belonged in AAP and got in. The 5 wrongfully rejected kids generally get in on appeal, get in the following year, or get principal placed.

It stinks when your kid is one of the ones who has to deal with appeals or applying the next year when they should have been admitted. By the end of third grade, after two rounds of applications and appeals, the number of kids who belong in AAP but keep getting rejected is very small.

Every year, our school sends less than 5 kids to the center. While I don't think our school is the norm, I don't think we're an extreme outlier either. In a class of 75-100 2nd graders, sending 25 or 30 kids seems like a lot.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both sides are correct. I'm the PP with the AART who said that each year, around 5 kids from their school get rejected who should have been accepted. Alongside those 5 kids are 25 kids who belonged in AAP and got in. The 5 wrongfully rejected kids generally get in on appeal, get in the following year, or get principal placed.

It stinks when your kid is one of the ones who has to deal with appeals or applying the next year when they should have been admitted. By the end of third grade, after two rounds of applications and appeals, the number of kids who belong in AAP but keep getting rejected is very small.

Every year, our school sends less than 5 kids to the center. While I don't think our school is the norm, I don't think we're an extreme outlier either. In a class of 75-100 2nd graders, sending 25 or 30 kids seems like a lot.

15-20% of FCPS 2nd graders kids are admitted into AAP. Your school on average should have 11-20 kids get accepted into AAP. If it's only 5 per grade, then your school must be a lower SES one or be drastically underperforming.

My kids' school has 6 classrooms per grade level and around 150 kids. It is expected that 22-30 kids would be admitted to AAP using the 15-20% rate.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both sides are correct. I'm the PP with the AART who said that each year, around 5 kids from their school get rejected who should have been accepted. Alongside those 5 kids are 25 kids who belonged in AAP and got in. The 5 wrongfully rejected kids generally get in on appeal, get in the following year, or get principal placed.

It stinks when your kid is one of the ones who has to deal with appeals or applying the next year when they should have been admitted. By the end of third grade, after two rounds of applications and appeals, the number of kids who belong in AAP but keep getting rejected is very small.

Every year, our school sends less than 5 kids to the center. While I don't think our school is the norm, I don't think we're an extreme outlier either. In a class of 75-100 2nd graders, sending 25 or 30 kids seems like a lot.

15-20% of FCPS 2nd graders kids are admitted into AAP. Your school on average should have 11-20 kids get accepted into AAP. If it's only 5 per grade, then your school must be a lower SES one or be drastically underperforming.

My kids' school has 6 classrooms per grade level and around 150 kids. It is expected that 22-30 kids would be admitted to AAP using the 15-20% rate.

I thought it was 10% were accepted for 3rd grade and then the number grows in later years due to Principal Placement and kids applying in later grades. Our school has about 90 second graders and the AART said about 8-10 kids are accepted into AAP each year. Only 5 or so go to the Center, there is a mix of Gen Ed and Language Immersion kids who stay, but mainly LI kids stay.

Just because a small number of kids move to the Center doesn't mean that that is the number of kids accepted. There are parents who choose to keep their kids at the base school even when it doesn't have AAP. There are different reasons for that, sometimes it is language immersion but many times it is because parents simply prefer the kid at the base school. We have kids return from the Center to our Base every year, they cannot rejoin the LI program but the kids just don't like the Center for whatever reason and they come back to the base school.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Both sides are correct. I'm the PP with the AART who said that each year, around 5 kids from their school get rejected who should have been accepted. Alongside those 5 kids are 25 kids who belonged in AAP and got in. The 5 wrongfully rejected kids generally get in on appeal, get in the following year, or get principal placed.

It stinks when your kid is one of the ones who has to deal with appeals or applying the next year when they should have been admitted. By the end of third grade, after two rounds of applications and appeals, the number of kids who belong in AAP but keep getting rejected is very small.

Every year, our school sends less than 5 kids to the center. While I don't think our school is the norm, I don't think we're an extreme outlier either. In a class of 75-100 2nd graders, sending 25 or 30 kids seems like a lot.

15-20% of FCPS 2nd graders kids are admitted into AAP. Your school on average should have 11-20 kids get accepted into AAP. If it's only 5 per grade, then your school must be a lower SES one or be drastically underperforming.

My kids' school has 6 classrooms per grade level and around 150 kids. It is expected that 22-30 kids would be admitted to AAP using the 15-20% rate.

I thought it was 10% were accepted for 3rd grade and then the number grows in later years due to Principal Placement and kids applying in later grades. Our school has about 90 second graders and the AART said about 8-10 kids are accepted into AAP each year. Only 5 or so go to the Center, there is a mix of Gen Ed and Language Immersion kids who stay, but mainly LI kids stay.

Just because a small number of kids move to the Center doesn't mean that that is the number of kids accepted. There are parents who choose to keep their kids at the base school even when it doesn't have AAP. There are different reasons for that, sometimes it is language immersion but many times it is because parents simply prefer the kid at the base school. We have kids return from the Center to our Base every year, they cannot rejoin the LI program but the kids just don't like the Center for whatever reason and they come back to the base school.

The AAP equity report showed that 16% of the second grade cohort was centrally selected for AAP in the year studied. The 10% figure is the percent of ALL kids in K-6th who are AAP eligible per the central committee. They use K, 1st, and 2nd populations to obscure the percentage of 3rd-6th graders in AAP.

[Anonymous]

We are at a high SES center school. We have 5 grade 2 classrooms. From my daughter’s class from a total of 22 children, 5 kids were selected. If we assume 5 were selected from each of the 5 classrooms that’s a total of 25 children that’s 23%.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our AART told us that the most important factor is that the child’s educational needs cannot be met in the regular classroom.

So, some kids with very high test scores do perfectly fine learning in the regular classroom, but other kids with high scores really need to be in a different classroom situation so that they can focus. Some very bright kids can challenge themselves but some kids need the outside challenge found in the AAP classroom.

The identification process is meant to find the kids that need the AAP classroom to meet their needs because their needs cannot be met in the regular classroom.

That certainly is the party line, but FCPS doesn't follow it at all. Most kids who are admitted into AAP would bloom wherever they're planted. They don't need AAP to meet their needs. Many of the kids who generally would earn lower GBRS scores are exactly the kids who need a program like AAP so they don't fall through the cracks.

Also, at the risk of being an asshole, very few 2nd grade teachers are competent enough to identify giftedness or whether a kid needs a gifted program. Realistically speaking, 2nd grade teachers have an IQ around 110 and are in the field because they love children. They can recognize above average people pleasers who are organized and neat. They wouldn't have the faintest notion of what giftedness looked like if it smacked them upside the head.

Yes, you are an asshole.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's how it works. 100-200 people, comprising AAP teachers, school counselors, AARTs, and more are split into small groups to review files. The criterion for getting in is that over half of the people reviewing your child's file vote that the child should be admitted. The files are viewed holistically, meaning that the same panel might reject someone with high scores and then accept someone with low scores if something else in the file convinced them that kid #2 belongs in AAP but kid #1 doesn't.

But no notes or comparisons that would be subject to ferpa or foia, because they really don't want anyone to see the sausage making

It's no different than what goes on in magnet school admissions, or TJ, or private high schools, or colleges (state or private). I'm not sure why people think there's a strict formula to use. It is no different than a job interview, or anything else in life where a bunch of people apply, but some make it and others don't. Every year a ton of parents are up in arms about "why" their kid was rejected. There is NO single answer. The reviewers who touched your kid's file didn't believe he/she belonged in AAP in comparison to the other files they reviewed. That is the essence of the "holistic" review. Trying to find the silver bullet on AAP admissions is just futile. Collectively, we waste a lot of time on this on a yearly basis.

The problem with holistic admissions is that it can easily be abused. The history of so-called holistic admissions in the U.S. is rather sordid and actually starts with anti-semitism. Basically, lots of schools used to have test-based admissions and Jews were out performing. To address this, holistic admissions was introduced. Holistic admissions, while it sounds nice in theory, often ends up perpetuating very human biases and is a way of eliminating transparency and oversight.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our AART told us that the most important factor is that the child’s educational needs cannot be met in the regular classroom.

So, some kids with very high test scores do perfectly fine learning in the regular classroom, but other kids with high scores really need to be in a different classroom situation so that they can focus. Some very bright kids can challenge themselves but some kids need the outside challenge found in the AAP classroom.

The identification process is meant to find the kids that need the AAP classroom to meet their needs because their needs cannot be met in the regular classroom.

That certainly is the party line, but FCPS doesn't follow it at all. Most kids who are admitted into AAP would bloom wherever they're planted. They don't need AAP to meet their needs. Many of the kids who generally would earn lower GBRS scores are exactly the kids who need a program like AAP so they don't fall through the cracks.

Also, at the risk of being an asshole, very few 2nd grade teachers are competent enough to identify giftedness or whether a kid needs a gifted program. Realistically speaking, 2nd grade teachers have an IQ around 110 and are in the field because they love children. They can recognize above average people pleasers who are organized and neat. They wouldn't have the faintest notion of what giftedness looked like if it smacked them upside the head.

This exactly. Both paragraphs.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Our AART told us that the most important factor is that the child’s educational needs cannot be met in the regular classroom.

So, some kids with very high test scores do perfectly fine learning in the regular classroom, but other kids with high scores really need to be in a different classroom situation so that they can focus. Some very bright kids can challenge themselves but some kids need the outside challenge found in the AAP classroom.

The identification process is meant to find the kids that need the AAP classroom to meet their needs because their needs cannot be met in the regular classroom.

That certainly is the party line, but FCPS doesn't follow it at all. Most kids who are admitted into AAP would bloom wherever they're planted. They don't need AAP to meet their needs. Many of the kids who generally would earn lower GBRS scores are exactly the kids who need a program like AAP so they don't fall through the cracks.

+1

Also, at the risk of being an asshole, very few 2nd grade teachers are competent enough to identify giftedness or whether a kid needs a gifted program. Realistically speaking, 2nd grade teachers have an IQ around 110 and are in the field because they love children. They can recognize above average people pleasers who are organized and neat. They wouldn't have the faintest notion of what giftedness looked like if it smacked them upside the head.

This exactly. Both paragraphs.

[Anonymous]

High SES Vienna school. 25% of kids are in AAP, some in pool get rejected, several make it on appeal

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Here's how it works. 100-200 people, comprising AAP teachers, school counselors, AARTs, and more are split into small groups to review files. The criterion for getting in is that over half of the people reviewing your child's file vote that the child should be admitted. The files are viewed holistically, meaning that the same panel might reject someone with high scores and then accept someone with low scores if something else in the file convinced them that kid #2 belongs in AAP but kid #1 doesn't.

But no notes or comparisons that would be subject to ferpa or foia, because they really don't want anyone to see the sausage making

It's no different than what goes on in magnet school admissions, or TJ, or private high schools, or colleges (state or private). I'm not sure why people think there's a strict formula to use. It is no different than a job interview, or anything else in life where a bunch of people apply, but some make it and others don't. Every year a ton of parents are up in arms about "why" their kid was rejected. There is NO single answer. The reviewers who touched your kid's file didn't believe he/she belonged in AAP in comparison to the other files they reviewed. That is the essence of the "holistic" review. Trying to find the silver bullet on AAP admissions is just futile. Collectively, we waste a lot of time on this on a yearly basis.

The problem with holistic admissions is that it can easily be abused. The history of so-called holistic admissions in the U.S. is rather sordid and actually starts with anti-semitism. Basically, lots of schools used to have test-based admissions and Jews were out performing. To address this, holistic admissions was introduced. Holistic admissions, while it sounds nice in theory, often ends up perpetuating very human biases and is a way of eliminating transparency and oversight.

Agreed. Except in our era, "holistic" has evolved further to include diversity, equity, and other considerations which are necessarily subjective. For what it's worth, DS was accepted into AAP with NNAT = 150, COGAT = 138, had perfect GBRS, but I still feel as though we were at the mercy of his teacher/AART choosing the right work samples, and the committee looking at it in the same way as the school level people. These last two steps have more to do with staff's skills and talents and less to do with my DS's. I am acutely aware that it could have worked out differently.

[Anonymous]

I think it is too subjecting. I have 3 kids in aap and luckily the first one got in before the GBRS (got a low score) counted as much but scores were very high. That child is extremely gifted but not a people pleaser, and as the child has gotten older and has learned how to interact better, the skill level is so much more evident to another person. I feel like this child would have been wrongly passed over with the new system.

2nd kid in pool and good scores, but super smart rather than gifted in my opinion. Got an almost perfect GBRS score and got in.

3rd kid possibly is the most gifted of all and scores were through the roof AND the child is thankfully verbally advanced and very outgoing, so I was never worried about the GBRS.

But if child 1 didn’t get in, I would have needed to pull that child from FCPS. You can’t have someone in the 99th percentile just chug along, they won’t learn any study habits.

[Anonymous]

High SES... DS is a 1st grader, 106 NNAT; 99% in math and reading for Iready - Q1 and Q2....Grade accelerated - skipped Kindergarten.... just waiting for Cogat .... how many kids are in 3rd grade AAP class at center shcool - Churchill Rd Elementary School in McLean?

[Anonymous]

High SES... DS is a 1st grader, 160 NNAT; 99% in math and reading for Iready - Q1 and Q2....Grade accelerated - skipped Kindergarten.... just waiting for Cogat .... how many kids are in 3rd grade AAP class at center school - Churchill Rd Elementary School in McLean?