Theories as to why this year's acceptances were so tough...

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question gets asked every year. You only think it’s an unusual year because your kid was part of it.

I actually think OP is accurate. Borders were closed to international visas, so 2 years of candidates from abroad were stuck at home. Then domestically many parents pulled their kids out of college out of fear of the virus or instructed juniors/seniors to delay and take a gap year because there was societal panic.

So yeah even if that led to a 20% surge in applications - tougher all around.

Lol, having the borders closed for a few years took out a large proportion of the top end of competition and opened up slots for US kids that in days past would be less likely to get in.

This is another reason why since the pandemic its become easier, not harder, for US kids.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s a mystery

1. The top colleges have barely added any new seats to incoming classes in 40 years. Yet we have 3mm more HS graduates. That’s 300,000 more students in the top 10% if their class vying for that tiny number of seats.
2. Increased foreign applicants as the US tries to lure talent
3. COVID grade inflation made more kids think they were more accomplished than they really were
4. General dilution of the SAT. Since college board reverted to the 1600 scale from the 2400 scale, they did NOT return to the same scale as pre-2400. Todays scores equate to 60-100 points lower on the old 1600 scale.
5. Test optional gives more people a punchers chance. Note I am actually in favor of TO. I am a devout non-believer in the SAT/ACT and what they purport to measure.
6. Common App majes it ever easier to spam 20 schools. I applied to 4 schools in HS in the mid-90s. Each application had to be typed on a typewriter or hand filled in. Tedious.
7. The ever-increasing influence of stupid rankings, combined with anxiety over being one of the have nots if you don’t get into a top 20.

Agree but I need
More explanation on #4.

Not OP--but the SAT was revamped in 1996/97 and it's largely agreed that there was a 60-150 point bump, much of it coming from the Verbal portion.

This helps explain why a 1400 was truly exceptional in the 80s/early 90s and not that many people scored above it, relatively speaking.
https://www.greenes.com/html/convert.htm

[Anonymous]

After re-reading the OP's question, it sounds like she/he is asking why the acceptance rates are lower, which is true

This just means that the yield will be lower, mathematically its all going to wash out

If you assume that the top 100 colleges have 2,500 students per class each (no idea if this is the correct number but just using it for illustrative purposes) that is 250,000 kids that will be attending (not only be accepted) a top 100 college

There are about 3.75 million high school students per each in the US, about 40% go to college so that is 1.5 million college students per year

So on average, irregardless of acceptance rates, 16.7% of high school students will be going to a top 100 college

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question gets asked every year. You only think it’s an unusual year because your kid was part of it.

I actually think OP is accurate. Borders were closed to international visas, so 2 years of candidates from abroad were stuck at home. Then domestically many parents pulled their kids out of college out of fear of the virus or instructed juniors/seniors to delay and take a gap year because there was societal panic.

So yeah even if that led to a 20% surge in applications - tougher all around.

Lol, having the borders closed for a few years took out a large proportion of the top end of competition and opened up slots for US kids that in days past would be less likely to get in.

This is another reason why since the pandemic its become easier, not harder, for US kids.

Delusional

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:My kid's school caps the number of schools he can apply to at 10. He got into all 10. Students need to focus on reality and stop applying to 20 schools. Pick ones they can get into and then they'll have a lot of choices. By applying to schools that are clearly a reach, they made more work for themselves with a limited positive result.

No problem with applying to a few reach schools. Just make sure to have a well rounded group of schools---3-4 Reaches are fine, but you also need 3-4 True Safeties that you DC actually would want to attend (it's not an actual safety if you kid doesn't really want to attend), and then 3-4 targets. If you want to apply to more, go for it. Unfortunately, many applying to 20+ schools are including 18+ of those as Reaches and then disappointed in their results. If a school's acceptance rate is less than 20%, it's a REACH for everyone nowadays.

My own DS did 11 schools---could have done another 4-5 but they were all Reaches with less than 10% acceptance rates. he decided to narrow it down and select 2-3 Reaches and focus on those, as well as focus on living and enjoying senior year a little bit.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Foreign students are full play and valuable to colleges.

Exactly. Huge cash cow for US colleges and universities. And many aren’t sticking around the US after graduation. They’re returning to their home countries.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question gets asked every year. You only think it’s an unusual year because your kid was part of it.

I actually think OP is accurate. Borders were closed to international visas, so 2 years of candidates from abroad were stuck at home. Then domestically many parents pulled their kids out of college out of fear of the virus or instructed juniors/seniors to delay and take a gap year because there was societal panic.

So yeah even if that led to a 20% surge in applications - tougher all around.

Lol, having the borders closed for a few years took out a large proportion of the top end of competition and opened up slots for US kids that in days past would be less likely to get in.

This is another reason why since the pandemic its become easier, not harder, for US kids.

It made it easier for US applicants from 2020-2021. Applications and visas are renewed for entrance to the Fall 2022 college session so everyone is back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s a mystery

1. The top colleges have barely added any new seats to incoming classes in 40 years. Yet we have 3mm more HS graduates. That’s 300,000 more students in the top 10% if their class vying for that tiny number of seats.
2. Increased foreign applicants as the US tries to lure talent
3. COVID grade inflation made more kids think they were more accomplished than they really were
4. General dilution of the SAT. Since college board reverted to the 1600 scale from the 2400 scale, they did NOT return to the same scale as pre-2400. Todays scores equate to 60-100 points lower on the old 1600 scale.
5. Test optional gives more people a punchers chance. Note I am actually in favor of TO. I am a devout non-believer in the SAT/ACT and what they purport to measure.
6. Common App majes it ever easier to spam 20 schools. I applied to 4 schools in HS in the mid-90s. Each application had to be typed on a typewriter or hand filled in. Tedious.
7. The ever-increasing influence of stupid rankings, combined with anxiety over being one of the have nots if you don’t get into a top 20.

+1. Look these are the facts - and to those who say “it’s always been like this”. No. It has not. Never has it been “TO” nor has there been a pandemic nor has there been such a push to value criteria based on race/color/creed/sexual identity. So - no - staying it has always been like this is simply not true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question gets asked every year. You only think it’s an unusual year because your kid was part of it.

I actually think OP is accurate. Borders were closed to international visas, so 2 years of candidates from abroad were stuck at home. Then domestically many parents pulled their kids out of college out of fear of the virus or instructed juniors/seniors to delay and take a gap year because there was societal panic.

So yeah even if that led to a 20% surge in applications - tougher all around.

Lol, having the borders closed for a few years took out a large proportion of the top end of competition and opened up slots for US kids that in days past would be less likely to get in.

This is another reason why since the pandemic its become easier, not harder, for US kids.

Delusional

The US has a dubious distinction of having an uncompetitive high school educational system for the vast majority of students. In our country, students rank near the bottom compared to other industrialized countries in math and reading.

What the US is very good at is promoting a woke culture: what bathrooms should trans kids get to use, reasons why grades and standardized tests are racists, how can US people get more gibs from the government without thinking about how to actually earn it, etc.

In professions that contribute to national power? Not so much.

Why do you think most doctors are international? Why are many of the most advanced/valuable companies in the US populated by internationals?

These international students not only come to US colleges more prepared than US students they also come full pay without asking for handouts, whining about how expensive it is, how many snow days are gifted, no homework policies students are already too stressed out, unlimited second chances for disruptive students that conduct criminal tier behavior otherwise again its racists, etc.

Not saying that I like it, but its the hard truth and the most successful college grads from the elite colleges are often international students.


https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2019-12-03/us-students-show-no-improvement-in-math-reading-science-on-international-exam

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/us-students-continue-to-lag-behind-peers-in-east-asia-and-europe-in-reading-math-and-science-exams-show/2019/12/02/e9e3b37c-153d-11ea-9110-3b34ce1d92b1_story.html

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question gets asked every year. You only think it’s an unusual year because your kid was part of it.

I actually think OP is accurate. Borders were closed to international visas, so 2 years of candidates from abroad were stuck at home. Then domestically many parents pulled their kids out of college out of fear of the virus or instructed juniors/seniors to delay and take a gap year because there was societal panic.

So yeah even if that led to a 20% surge in applications - tougher all around.

Lol, having the borders closed for a few years took out a large proportion of the top end of competition and opened up slots for US kids that in days past would be less likely to get in.

This is another reason why since the pandemic its become easier, not harder, for US kids.

Delusional

The US has a dubious distinction of having an uncompetitive high school educational system for the vast majority of students. In our country, students rank near the bottom compared to other industrialized countries in math and reading.

What the US is very good at is promoting a woke culture: what bathrooms should trans kids get to use, reasons why grades and standardized tests are racists, how can US people get more gibs from the government without thinking about how to actually earn it, etc.

In professions that contribute to national power? Not so much.

Why do you think most doctors are international? Why are many of the most advanced/valuable companies in the US populated by internationals?

These international students not only come to US colleges more prepared than US students they also come full pay without asking for handouts, whining about how expensive it is, how many snow days are gifted, no homework policies students are already too stressed out, unlimited second chances for disruptive students that conduct criminal tier behavior otherwise again its racists, etc.

Not saying that I like it, but its the hard truth and the most successful college grads from the elite colleges are often international students.


https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2019-12-03/us-students-show-no-improvement-in-math-reading-science-on-international-exam

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/us-students-continue-to-lag-behind-peers-in-east-asia-and-europe-in-reading-math-and-science-exams-show/2019/12/02/e9e3b37c-153d-11ea-9110-3b34ce1d92b1_story.html

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/

The conspiracies run strong in you.

You think any student at Yale is complaining about the level of homework?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question gets asked every year. You only think it’s an unusual year because your kid was part of it.

I actually think OP is accurate. Borders were closed to international visas, so 2 years of candidates from abroad were stuck at home. Then domestically many parents pulled their kids out of college out of fear of the virus or instructed juniors/seniors to delay and take a gap year because there was societal panic.

So yeah even if that led to a 20% surge in applications - tougher all around.

Lol, having the borders closed for a few years took out a large proportion of the top end of competition and opened up slots for US kids that in days past would be less likely to get in.

This is another reason why since the pandemic its become easier, not harder, for US kids.

Delusional

The US has a dubio
us distinction of having an uncompetitive high school educational system for the vast majority of students. In our country, students rank near the bottom compared to other industrialized countries in math and reading.

What the US is very good at is promoting a woke culture: what bathrooms should trans kids get to use, reasons why grades and standardized tests are racists, how can US people get more gibs from the government without thinking about how to actually earn it, etc.

In professions that contribute to national power? Not so much.

Why do you think most doctors are international? Why are many of the most advanced/valuable companies in the US populated by internationals?

These international students not only come to US colleges more prepared than US students they also come full pay without asking for handouts, whining about how expensive it is, how many snow days are gifted, no homework policies students are already too stressed out, unlimited second chances for disruptive students that conduct criminal tier behavior otherwise again its racists, etc.

Not saying that I like it, but its the hard truth and the most successful college grads from the elite colleges are often international students.


https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2019-12-03/us-students-show-no-improvement-in-math-reading-science-on-international-exam

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/us-students-continue-to-lag-behind-peers-in-east-asia-and-europe-in-reading-math-and-science-exams-show/2019/12/02/e9e3b37c-153d-11ea-9110-3b34ce1d92b1_story.html

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/

The conspiracies run strong in you.

You think any student at Yale is complaining about the level of homework?

Yale is 21% international + 15% asian + 27% jewish = 63% of student body

URM are 7%

So the "typical" US student is competing for the remaining 30% which are usually in the bottom half of performance at ivies

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t think it’s a mystery

1. The top colleges have barely added any new seats to incoming classes in 40 years. Yet we have 3mm more HS graduates. That’s 300,000 more students in the top 10% if their class vying for that tiny number of seats.
2. Increased foreign applicants as the US tries to lure talent
3. COVID grade inflation made more kids think they were more accomplished than they really were
4. General dilution of the SAT. Since college board reverted to the 1600 scale from the 2400 scale, they did NOT return to the same scale as pre-2400. Todays scores equate to 60-100 points lower on the old 1600 scale.
5. Test optional gives more people a punchers chance. Note I am actually in favor of TO. I am a devout non-believer in the SAT/ACT and what they purport to measure.
6. Common App majes it ever easier to spam 20 schools. I applied to 4 schools in HS in the mid-90s. Each application had to be typed on a typewriter or hand filled in. Tedious.
7. The ever-increasing influence of stupid rankings, combined with anxiety over being one of the have nots if you don’t get into a top 20.

+1. Look these are the facts - and to those who say “it’s always been like this”. No. It has not. Never has it been “TO” nor has there been a pandemic nor has there been such a push to value criteria based on race/color/creed/sexual identity. So - no - staying it has always been like this is simply not true.

+2
People often say apply to a few true safeties, then everything will work out in the end. But how? We can’t even figure out actual safety anymore!

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This question gets asked every year. You only think it’s an unusual year because your kid was part of it.

I actually think OP is accurate. Borders were closed to international visas, so 2 years of candidates from abroad were stuck at home. Then domestically many parents pulled their kids out of college out of fear of the virus or instructed juniors/seniors to delay and take a gap year because there was societal panic.

So yeah even if that led to a 20% surge in applications - tougher all around.

Lol, having the borders closed for a few years took out a large proportion of the top end of competition and opened up slots for US kids that in days past would be less likely to get in.

This is another reason why since the pandemic its become easier, not harder, for US kids.

Delusional

The US has a dubio
us distinction of having an uncompetitive high school educational system for the vast majority of students. In our country, students rank near the bottom compared to other industrialized countries in math and reading.

What the US is very good at is promoting a woke culture: what bathrooms should trans kids get to use, reasons why grades and standardized tests are racists, how can US people get more gibs from the government without thinking about how to actually earn it, etc.

In professions that contribute to national power? Not so much.

Why do you think most doctors are international? Why are many of the most advanced/valuable companies in the US populated by internationals?

These international students not only come to US colleges more prepared than US students they also come full pay without asking for handouts, whining about how expensive it is, how many snow days are gifted, no homework policies students are already too stressed out, unlimited second chances for disruptive students that conduct criminal tier behavior otherwise again its racists, etc.

Not saying that I like it, but its the hard truth and the most successful college grads from the elite colleges are often international students.


https://www.usnews.com/news/education-news/articles/2019-12-03/us-students-show-no-improvement-in-math-reading-science-on-international-exam

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/us-students-continue-to-lag-behind-peers-in-east-asia-and-europe-in-reading-math-and-science-exams-show/2019/12/02/e9e3b37c-153d-11ea-9110-3b34ce1d92b1_story.html

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/02/15/u-s-students-internationally-math-science/

The conspiracies run strong in you.

You think any student at Yale is complaining about the level of homework?

Yale is 21% international + 15% asian + 27% jewish = 63% of student body

URM are 7%

So the "typical" US student is competing for the remaining 30% which are usually in the bottom half of performance at ivies

You perhaps misread the stats. 21% is for the University as a whole eg grad students. Yale College is 10% international.
It’s roughly like that for all the elite colleges. US student admissions (let’s hope it stays that way) are not really impacted by internationals. The latter have a really high bar to enter.

[Anonymous]

It's supply and demand for the selective colleges. Around the same amount of applicants are admitted to achieve desired yield. A lot more applications for those same spots. Nothing has really changed.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:This question gets asked every year. You only think it’s an unusual year because your kid was part of it.

+1