Basketball and the starting 5

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have experience if certain teams leave some of their stronger players off the bench at first so that those subbing are strong?

No. This is not a thing.

It depends. Some leagues have playing time rules, that would make it important to not put all your top players at once, because your weaker players are getting almost equal playing time.

[Anonymous]

Better question, is she playing at the end of a close game?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have experience if certain teams leave some of their stronger players off the bench at first so that those subbing are strong?

No. This is not a thing.

It depends. Some leagues have playing time rules, that would make it important to not put all your top players at once, because your weaker players are getting almost equal playing time.

It really depends on the make up of the team. For some reason, I am assuming your DD is a guard but this is of course just a hunch. On our team, our two best players are both point guards and are at their true bests when playing that position. As such, Player A starts game and plays 1st Q, Player B subs in at some point and may play rest of the half. Player A usually gets subbed out at some point and Player B takers over point. Same thing in 2nd half, Player A starts and depending on the cadence of game may come out at some point in 3rd Q when Player B goes in. Ideally, they are both playing most of the 4th as this is crunch time. Both are satisfied and this gives our team best chance to win. Now the third string PG probably has an issue with playing time but this is a tryout team so it's not particularly fair playing time and the last few off the bench do not get much playing time.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone have experience if certain teams leave some of their stronger players off the bench at first so that those subbing are strong?

No. This is not a thing.

It depends. Some leagues have playing time rules, that would make it important to not put all your top players at once, because your weaker players are getting almost equal playing time.

It really depends on the make up of the team. For some reason, I am assuming your DD is a guard but this is of course just a hunch. On our team, our two best players are both point guards and are at their true bests when playing that position. As such, Player A starts game and plays 1st Q, Player B subs in at some point and may play rest of the half. Player A usually gets subbed out at some point and Player B takers over point. Same thing in 2nd half, Player A starts and depending on the cadence of game may come out at some point in 3rd Q when Player B goes in. Ideally, they are both playing most of the 4th as this is crunch time. Both are satisfied and this gives our team best chance to win. Now the third string PG probably has an issue with playing time but this is a tryout team so it's not particularly fair playing time and the last few off the bench do not get much playing time.

12th player on a 12 person roster has a tough time on a competitive team regardless of position. Coaches really should give parents a heads up that their kid will be third string and not playing much, but it doesn't work that way

[Anonymous]

OP Here--only two players on our team don't get subbed much unless they request a break. They are part of the starting lineup. The other players get subbed in and out through the game. My DD is on par with these players but claims is better than some of the starters and this is the issue for her. It's souring the experience.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP Here--only two players on our team don't get subbed much unless they request a break. They are part of the starting lineup. The other players get subbed in and out through the game. My DD is on par with these players but claims is better than some of the starters and this is the issue for her. It's souring the experience.

Perception is a big part of basketball. Kids who may have demonstrably better skills are sometimes perceived by coaches as not being as good. If they want to play more, they need to change the coach’s perception by controlling what they can control. This means getting rebounds, getting steals, setting screens, and rushing to help a teammate being trapped (assuming that doesn’t mean totally leaving their position).

Usually, and often rightly, coaches limit playing time for a player who they perceive as more likely to turn the ball over when pressured by the défense or fail to effectively guard a good player on the other team. Many kids think that dribbling, passing and shooting are the only skills that matter, but protecting the ball WHILE dribbling (and even while being fouled) is critical. Quick feet to stay in front of a defender are critical. Diving on loose balls is critical.

My kid was a great offensive player who didn’t start his sophomore year because he was not quick on defense and he would cough the ball up when being fouled if the ref didn’t see it. He bought a football ladder and did quick feet drills, sprints, defensive slide drills, and lots of work on dribbling while being fouled. It changed coaches’ perceptions of him a lot when he was the first to finish sprints, stayed in front of small quick guard playing one on one (and even poked the ball away from them), and didn’t turn the ball over during loosely reffed scrimmages where lots of fouls were tolerated.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP Here--only two players on our team don't get subbed much unless they request a break. They are part of the starting lineup. The other players get subbed in and out through the game. My DD is on par with these players but claims is better than some of the starters and this is the issue for her. It's souring the experience.

This is her perception, but probably not reality. Has she asked the coach what she needs to do to improve?

[Anonymous]

Physical condition is an obvious but important factor. Some of our "starters" are not the quickest and tire more easily, so they are subbed out more often whereas my son (who is not always the starting PG) will stay in the game for long periods until the end and only come out for water, or to give a bencher time to play a few minutes. Once he understood his important roles on the team, he was ok with not starting.

[Anonymous]

The comment on perception is relevant to all school sports and a good many club sports.

The biggest factor is speed/effort or hustle. And, the time to display it is “always”. And by “always” I mean in practices and games.

You will find - your kid (and every kid at that age really) does not go all out in practice. It takes a good while for kids to “get it”. And most never do. But, to really get better you have to go maximum speed/effort in practice. “No one does that”. You are right - except for you.

Sit down and get a promise from her that for the next week she will go as hard as she can all of the time. Every drill, every practice, every game. She will get tired. Yes. And she will slow down when that happens sure. But, she will practice better, and play better. And it will take 5 minutes for her coach to notice.

The coach may look to the others to do likewise. Some may do that too - particularly the competitive ones. That will improve the team. But - she will more likely find that by going hard - all of the time - at that age she will quickly out shine her teammates. And, the coach literally will have no choice but to reward the demonstrated effort. You can’t have parents watching a kid working her ass off in a game and not benefit from putting in the effort.

This is a trait that good athletes learn over time. Your daughter is on the edge of when the dividing out starts. She may not end up a basketball player. But, the lesson on effort applies to everything. Sports, academics, music, art, etc… The old adage that you play like you practice is - in fact - true.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The comment on perception is relevant to all school sports and a good many club sports.

The biggest factor is speed/effort or hustle. And, the time to display it is “always”. And by “always” I mean in practices and games.

You will find - your kid (and every kid at that age really) does not go all out in practice. It takes a good while for kids to “get it”. And most never do. But, to really get better you have to go maximum speed/effort in practice. “No one does that”. You are right - except for you.

Sit down and get a promise from her that for the next week she will go as hard as she can all of the time. Every drill, every practice, every game. She will get tired. Yes. And she will slow down when that happens sure. But, she will practice better, and play better. And it will take 5 minutes for her coach to notice.

The coach may look to the others to do likewise. Some may do that too - particularly the competitive ones. That will improve the team. But - she will more likely find that by going hard - all of the time - at that age she will quickly out shine her teammates. And, the coach literally will have no choice but to reward the demonstrated effort. You can’t have parents watching a kid working her ass off in a game and not benefit from putting in the effort.

This is a trait that good athletes learn over time. Your daughter is on the edge of when the dividing out starts. She may not end up a basketball player. But, the lesson on effort applies to everything. Sports, academics, music, art, etc… The old adage that you play like you practice is - in fact - true.

I'm the PP whose kid worked a lot on quickness. It's so true to say that kids have to "get it." My kid thought the coach was being unfair, he was unlucky, the ref didn't see the foul, kids didn't pass to him -- whatever it was, there was some reason other than himself that he wasn't getting the playing time and results he wanted. A coach told him very directly that he would sit on the bench until he got faster, and my DS who had previously always been one of the last few kids to finish sprints started battling it out in practice with the fastest kids on the 3 teams in the club. He was perceived as not a good ball-handler, so he'd challenge the best players on the team to play friendly one on one after practice, and he started to win sometimes because he tried harder. Coaches noticed immediately.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for the replies. I’ll continue to reassure her that starting is less important than she thinks. I don’t know what else to say to her because she is getting down on herself and she’s a good player.

I think you’re missing the point of the majority of the comments. There’s an opportunity here for her to learn, grow, talk to the coach, and work harder. This is why people love sports for their kids. The message shouldn’t be, you’re so great at it doesn’t matter. It should be, talk to the coach about why and improve your game. It’ll be empowering and rewarding for her to see the results of her hard work.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP Here--only two players on our team don't get subbed much unless they request a break. They are part of the starting lineup. The other players get subbed in and out through the game. My DD is on par with these players but claims is better than some of the starters and this is the issue for her. It's souring the experience.

This is indulging a bad attitude. You support the idea that a 13 year old has an objective assessment of basketball skills, when she herself is one of the athletes being measured? No. Her attitude is souring the experience. Whining about playing time or starting is a nonstarter in my house.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP Here--only two players on our team don't get subbed much unless they request a break. They are part of the starting lineup. The other players get subbed in and out through the game. My DD is on par with these players but claims is better than some of the starters and this is the issue for her. It's souring the experience.

This is indulging a bad attitude. You support the idea that a 13 year old has an objective assessment of basketball skills, when she herself is one of the athletes being measured? No. Her attitude is souring the experience. Whining about playing time or starting is a nonstarter in my house.

No it’s not. Players want to play not sit on the bench.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP Here--only two players on our team don't get subbed much unless they request a break. They are part of the starting lineup. The other players get subbed in and out through the game. My DD is on par with these players but claims is better than some of the starters and this is the issue for her. It's souring the experience.

This is indulging a bad attitude. You support the idea that a 13 year old has an objective assessment of basketball skills, when she herself is one of the athletes being measured? No. Her attitude is souring the experience. Whining about playing time or starting is a nonstarter in my house.

No it’s not. Players want to play not sit on the bench.

It’s actually good to come off the bench. Gives a player to analyze how they will fit in once they get into the game. Emphasize that what matters most is the quality of her playing time over quantity. If she wants to start show they she deserves to be a starter when she gets in.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:The comment on perception is relevant to all school sports and a good many club sports.

The biggest factor is speed/effort or hustle. And, the time to display it is “always”. And by “always” I mean in practices and games.

You will find - your kid (and every kid at that age really) does not go all out in practice. It takes a good while for kids to “get it”. And most never do. But, to really get better you have to go maximum speed/effort in practice. “No one does that”. You are right - except for you.

Sit down and get a promise from her that for the next week she will go as hard as she can all of the time. Every drill, every practice, every game. She will get tired. Yes. And she will slow down when that happens sure. But, she will practice better, and play better. And it will take 5 minutes for her coach to notice.

The coach may look to the others to do likewise. Some may do that too - particularly the competitive ones. That will improve the team. But - she will more likely find that by going hard - all of the time - at that age she will quickly out shine her teammates. And, the coach literally will have no choice but to reward the demonstrated effort. You can’t have parents watching a kid working her ass off in a game and not benefit from putting in the effort.

This is a trait that good athletes learn over time. Your daughter is on the edge of when the dividing out starts. She may not end up a basketball player. But, the lesson on effort applies to everything. Sports, academics, music, art, etc… The old adage that you play like you practice is - in fact - true.

THat's my kid. Not particularly skillful, but in great shape and willing to go hard in practice and especially in games. Coaches notice which kids are always on the ground diving for loose balls or alway running down a fast break or constantly cutting on offense.