Snow clearing in minority areas

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in Somerset and the town clears our sidewalks for us. Many of the low income areas are in unincorporated sections of Montgomery County where there is no smaller local government like a town or a village. Are you sure that it isn’t the usual practice for the county to do this in pedestrian-heavy parts of the unincorporated areas of the county?

Yes. I'm a white person who lives in one of the MoCo "minority areas" and there is no entity available to clear the sidewalks. No HOA and no city. It's up to the county or to no one.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Single mom of two toddlers who lives in in Randolph Hills needs to shovel her own sidewalk.

Retired, elderly woman aging in place in Chevy Chase View needs to shovel own sidewalk.

Young 30-something childless couple who live in Aspen Hill don’t need to shovel own sidewalk because they are “vulnerable”.

That's not the logic though. Go read the bill. Nothing in the bill and comments on it is about the people who live along these designated routes being unable or unwilling to clear snow. That's something OP invented to start this thread. The actual reason for the bill, which is explained in the staff notes on it, is that these are areas with high usage of public transit and lots of pedestrians, so making sure the sidewalks are clear is more important. It's about the relative importance of public access, not who can and can't be expected to shovel. It's the same reason they currently shovel urban areas, that's not based on a belief that people in urban areas are less able to shovel.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can somebody explain to me why the county will be clearing snow from low income and minority areas? Why this group and the other group? They cite high traffic and accidents but it feels more like they don’t think we are capable of understanding or following laws so they’re just going to lower the bar for us (I’m Latina).

This bothers me because special exemption bills and laws like this end up creating resentment towards all of our groups.

Racial equity is about providing access. There are already multiple barriers than impede wealth creation and challenging commutes is one of them. It's not about individual people of color, but the fact that when looked at by group demographic data, AA and Latino/a residents have worse outcomes in every measure -- wealth, income, education, health care, housing, etc.

I've always been white but I have lived in very low income areas and now in upper middle class areas. The ability to access EVERYTHING is so much easier now. They are like two different worlds. MoCo is already much better at providing access to many services, including public transportation. This would make it a little easier. The cost benefit analysis is up for debate, for sure. But this is one of their equity approaches that I actually agree with in theory.

I’m op . I appreciate your thoughtful response. I didn’t think I had to disclose this in my question but I am a Hispanic/Latina woman. My family lives in the county and does your landscaping, carpentry work, painting and childcare. I am not a troll and unlike the other person, I don’t want more pedestrian fatalities. But I do not like that the county thinks that low income/minority people aren’t capable of following the same rules. This might sound strange to some of you but I actually find it offensive that the bar is lowered. What I see happening is this will create resentment for us. Because if it’s a question about ability, there are many people in the entire county who are unable to shovel their own sidewalks so why don’t they get the benefit? Somebody upthread said they were single mother or elderly.

There are many great programs that do help with equity, this one just has me scratching my head a little bit.

Then you're not very intelligent. To use misplaced pride and fear of being resented by other communities as a reason to put even more barriers to success (and literally, refuse to save lives) for certain low-income communities is... stupid. Sorry to be blunt, but your stance is mind-bogglingly irrational. This is simply the county deciding to address a serious issue (DEATHS of pedestrians) in the most rapid and efficient manner. Surely you can see that waiting for individuals to clear snow would not be that productive. This is not a cosmetic problem. It's a life and death issue.

Do you also use the concept of individual freedom to argue against vaccinations and mask mandates?

So you are in favor of treating minorities and the poor as helpless characters in need of constant assistance?

Whether we like it or not, this is a narrative that some believe, and not just white people. I have many friends of color who are upset with the way racial equity discussions go, and that they are almost always led by white people who think they are acting like allies but are really acting like white saviors. That doesn't mean this situation is one of them. But I do think that people who hare having the racial equity conversation need to be aware of this. There is a balance between providing access and still expecting people to do their best, and acknowledging that they are capable.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Single mom of two toddlers who lives in in Randolph Hills needs to shovel her own sidewalk.

Retired, elderly woman aging in place in Chevy Chase View needs to shovel own sidewalk.

Young 30-something childless couple who live in Aspen Hill don’t need to shovel own sidewalk because they are “vulnerable”.

That's not the logic though. Go read the bill. Nothing in the bill and comments on it is about the people who live along these designated routes being unable or unwilling to clear snow. That's something OP invented to start this thread. The actual reason for the bill, which is explained in the staff notes on it, is that these are areas with high usage of public transit and lots of pedestrians, so making sure the sidewalks are clear is more important. It's about the relative importance of public access, not who can and can't be expected to shovel. It's the same reason they currently shovel urban areas, that's not based on a belief that people in urban areas are less able to shovel.

I live in Aspen Hill. There are lots of sidewalks that aren't covered by any homeowners association or that even have houses anywhere near them. Like basically along stretches of road with retail or buildings that are for sale and unoccupied. (like on Georgia through Aspen Hill and near Glenmont.)

And some of us white people and people with kids live in the Aspen Hill area too.

So it's not like it's in front of anyone's sfh, like in Chevy Chase view. And it's not under any HOA or city jurisdiction. And the cheap apartment owners seem to want to take in money and not provide services (I thankfully live.in a sfh.)

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can somebody explain to me why the county will be clearing snow from low income and minority areas? Why this group and the other group? They cite high traffic and accidents but it feels more like they don’t think we are capable of understanding or following laws so they’re just going to lower the bar for us (I’m Latina).

This bothers me because special exemption bills and laws like this end up creating resentment towards all of our groups.

Racial equity is about providing access. There are already multiple barriers than impede wealth creation and challenging commutes is one of them. It's not about individual people of color, but the fact that when looked at by group demographic data, AA and Latino/a residents have worse outcomes in every measure -- wealth, income, education, health care, housing, etc.

I've always been white but I have lived in very low income areas and now in upper middle class areas. The ability to access EVERYTHING is so much easier now. They are like two different worlds. MoCo is already much better at providing access to many services, including public transportation. This would make it a little easier. The cost benefit analysis is up for debate, for sure. But this is one of their equity approaches that I actually agree with in theory.

I’m op . I appreciate your thoughtful response. I didn’t think I had to disclose this in my question but I am a Hispanic/Latina woman. My family lives in the county and does your landscaping, carpentry work, painting and childcare. I am not a troll and unlike the other person, I don’t want more pedestrian fatalities. But I do not like that the county thinks that low income/minority people aren’t capable of following the same rules. This might sound strange to some of you but I actually find it offensive that the bar is lowered. What I see happening is this will create resentment for us. Because if it’s a question about ability, there are many people in the entire county who are unable to shovel their own sidewalks so why don’t they get the benefit? Somebody upthread said they were single mother or elderly.

There are many great programs that do help with equity, this one just has me scratching my head a little bit.

Low income areas often have more families with young children, more elderly people, and more people with disabilities than wealthier neighborhoods. And, of course, many, if not most people in wealthier neighborhoods are paying for snow removal, so that they don’t have to risk leaving their kids, or risking their health to clear the snow themselves. OP, I’m curious. How many sidewalks have you cleared yourself? How many elderly people or handicapped people have you shoveled sidewalks for? Are you scratching your head and creating reasons to feel offended while other people are doing the work ?

Maybe this will help: Some of us recognize that we’re part of a community. I’m fine with being a part of a community that values pedestrian safety.

If you’re not a troll, then you should recognize that you’re one of many people who post with curious questions posed just like Tucker Carlson’s. You’ve got lots of company in your bewilderment and head scratching, and your insistence on “rules” even when the rules may not make nearly as much sense as more effective and more efficient alternatives.

Here’s some reading for you.


https://wtop.com/health-fitness/2022/01/strenuous-snow-shoveling-can-be-bad-for-your-heart-when-to-call-911/

I’ll bite. Since you’re asking I always shovel and clear my driveway and sidewalk and driveways and sidewalks of two different elderly neighbors. And before you ask, I also mow their lawns in the summertime as well.

Great! It’s heartening to know that you make an effort to be a good neighbor.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I live in Somerset and the town clears our sidewalks for us. Many of the low income areas are in unincorporated sections of Montgomery County where there is no smaller local government like a town or a village. Are you sure that it isn’t the usual practice for the county to do this in pedestrian-heavy parts of the unincorporated areas of the county?

Thank you for pointing this out. I live in Friendship Heights Village, which is a special tax district. Some of our taxes go to the Village to be used for community services including clearing snow. I think it’s great, and, I doubt that anyone thinks less of me for using services that my/our tax dollars support.

[Anonymous]

Now snow is racist too apparently. I mean, after all it is white.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Single mom of two toddlers who lives in in Randolph Hills needs to shovel her own sidewalk.

Retired, elderly woman aging in place in Chevy Chase View needs to shovel own sidewalk.

Young 30-something childless couple who live in Aspen Hill don’t need to shovel own sidewalk because they are “vulnerable”.

That's not the logic though. Go read the bill. Nothing in the bill and comments on it is about the people who live along these designated routes being unable or unwilling to clear snow. That's something OP invented to start this thread. The actual reason for the bill, which is explained in the staff notes on it, is that these are areas with high usage of public transit and lots of pedestrians, so making sure the sidewalks are clear is more important. It's about the relative importance of public access, not who can and can't be expected to shovel. It's the same reason they currently shovel urban areas, that's not based on a belief that people in urban areas are less able to shovel.

I live in Aspen Hill. There are lots of sidewalks that aren't covered by any homeowners association or that even have houses anywhere near them. Like basically along stretches of road with retail or buildings that are for sale and unoccupied. (like on Georgia through Aspen Hill and near Glenmont.)

And some of us white people and people with kids live in the Aspen Hill area too.

So it's not like it's in front of anyone's sfh, like in Chevy Chase view. And it's not under any HOA or city jurisdiction. And the cheap apartment owners seem to want to take in money and not provide services (I thankfully live.in a sfh.)

This is exactly the point. Instead of enforcing the law against those property owners who refuse to comply, they have decided to give them free services.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Somerset and the town clears our sidewalks for us. Many of the low income areas are in unincorporated sections of Montgomery County where there is no smaller local government like a town or a village. Are you sure that it isn’t the usual practice for the county to do this in pedestrian-heavy parts of the unincorporated areas of the county?

Yes. I'm a white person who lives in one of the MoCo "minority areas" and there is no entity available to clear the sidewalks. No HOA and no city. It's up to the county or to no one.

It’s up to the adjacent property owners. If there is a sidewalk in front of your property you are (or were) legally obligated to shovel the snow off the public sidewalk.

You are welcome to request the assembly to recognize your neighborhood as a special taxing district for providing these services if you want to.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Single mom of two toddlers who lives in in Randolph Hills needs to shovel her own sidewalk.

Retired, elderly woman aging in place in Chevy Chase View needs to shovel own sidewalk.

Young 30-something childless couple who live in Aspen Hill don’t need to shovel own sidewalk because they are “vulnerable”.

That's not the logic though. Go read the bill. Nothing in the bill and comments on it is about the people who live along these designated routes being unable or unwilling to clear snow. That's something OP invented to start this thread. The actual reason for the bill, which is explained in the staff notes on it, is that these are areas with high usage of public transit and lots of pedestrians, so making sure the sidewalks are clear is more important. It's about the relative importance of public access, not who can and can't be expected to shovel. It's the same reason they currently shovel urban areas, that's not based on a belief that people in urban areas are less able to shovel.

However, they have instead a methodology to apply this service to areas based on race without indication of transit needs. Further, plenty of areas also have lots of transit riders and riders, like Friendship Heights, who will not receive this service from the county.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Can somebody explain to me why the county will be clearing snow from low income and minority areas? Why this group and the other group? They cite high traffic and accidents but it feels more like they don’t think we are capable of understanding or following laws so they’re just going to lower the bar for us (I’m Latina).

This bothers me because special exemption bills and laws like this end up creating resentment towards all of our groups.

Racial equity is about providing access. There are already multiple barriers than impede wealth creation and challenging commutes is one of them. It's not about individual people of color, but the fact that when looked at by group demographic data, AA and Latino/a residents have worse outcomes in every measure -- wealth, income, education, health care, housing, etc.

I've always been white but I have lived in very low income areas and now in upper middle class areas. The ability to access EVERYTHING is so much easier now. They are like two different worlds. MoCo is already much better at providing access to many services, including public transportation. This would make it a little easier. The cost benefit analysis is up for debate, for sure. But this is one of their equity approaches that I actually agree with in theory.

I’m op . I appreciate your thoughtful response. I didn’t think I had to disclose this in my question but I am a Hispanic/Latina woman. My family lives in the county and does your landscaping, carpentry work, painting and childcare. I am not a troll and unlike the other person, I don’t want more pedestrian fatalities. But I do not like that the county thinks that low income/minority people aren’t capable of following the same rules. This might sound strange to some of you but I actually find it offensive that the bar is lowered. What I see happening is this will create resentment for us. Because if it’s a question about ability, there are many people in the entire county who are unable to shovel their own sidewalks so why don’t they get the benefit? Somebody upthread said they were single mother or elderly.

There are many great programs that do help with equity, this one just has me scratching my head a little bit.

He wasn't wrong when he said it folks: this is the soft bigotry of low expecations. You're not wrong to feel this way OP.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Somerset and the town clears our sidewalks for us. Many of the low income areas are in unincorporated sections of Montgomery County where there is no smaller local government like a town or a village. Are you sure that it isn’t the usual practice for the county to do this in pedestrian-heavy parts of the unincorporated areas of the county?

Thank you for pointing this out. I live in Friendship Heights Village, which is a special tax district. Some of our taxes go to the Village to be used for community services including clearing snow. I think it’s great, and, I doubt that anyone thinks less of me for using services that my/our tax dollars support.

You're telling me that the town clears your sidewalks? Through taxes? I assume these are special, additional taxes levied by your "village." If these are MoCo taxes paying to clear your sidewalks, that just makes me mad.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I live in Somerset and the town clears our sidewalks for us. Many of the low income areas are in unincorporated sections of Montgomery County where there is no smaller local government like a town or a village. Are you sure that it isn’t the usual practice for the county to do this in pedestrian-heavy parts of the unincorporated areas of the county?

Thank you for pointing this out. I live in Friendship Heights Village, which is a special tax district. Some of our taxes go to the Village to be used for community services including clearing snow. I think it’s great, and, I doubt that anyone thinks less of me for using services that my/our tax dollars support.

You're telling me that the town clears your sidewalks? Through taxes? I assume these are special, additional taxes levied by your "village." If these are MoCo taxes paying to clear your sidewalks, that just makes me mad.

I’m not sure about Somerset and the last time I was through I didn’t see too many sidewalks. But the Village of Friendship Heights has the brightest property tax rate in the county 1.6 per $1000 assessed value.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Single mom of two toddlers who lives in in Randolph Hills needs to shovel her own sidewalk.

Retired, elderly woman aging in place in Chevy Chase View needs to shovel own sidewalk.

Young 30-something childless couple who live in Aspen Hill don’t need to shovel own sidewalk because they are “vulnerable”.

That's not the logic though. Go read the bill. Nothing in the bill and comments on it is about the people who live along these designated routes being unable or unwilling to clear snow. That's something OP invented to start this thread. The actual reason for the bill, which is explained in the staff notes on it, is that these are areas with high usage of public transit and lots of pedestrians, so making sure the sidewalks are clear is more important. It's about the relative importance of public access, not who can and can't be expected to shovel. It's the same reason they currently shovel urban areas, that's not based on a belief that people in urban areas are less able to shovel.

However, they have instead a methodology to apply this service to areas based on race without indication of transit needs. Further, plenty of areas also have lots of transit riders and riders, like Friendship Heights, who will not receive this service from the county.

They didn't. They used the equity areas as a first step which are based on race in some cases, but also income (income being a decent proxy for transit needs) and then limited it to areas near transit. Transit need was the factor not "race without indication of transit need."

[Anonymous]

Maybe they based it on geographical data on winter slip and fall injury risk.

I'm a liberal but I'm also wondering about when the bleeding heart progs will catch on to the fact that this in itself is a manifestation of the soft racism of low expectations: that minorities aren't capable of taking care of their own sidewalks. Please do some mental calculus on that and figure out how to fix it.