UVA Admission and "other electives"

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We do not think he will be a failure if he does not get into UVA. But that is currently his top pick. I want him to be realistic about which courses he is choosing for next year. As in, if he doesn't take Spanish 4, then he might not get into UVA. He needs to think about how strongly he wants UVA vs how strongly he would rather not continue in Spanish. Totally up to him.

If it were his senior year and he wasn't taking a foreign language, that would probably be fine. But it sounds like he doesn't want to take one in the junior year, either, and is looking for filling the void with a cheesy elective that's not a core class. It's not gonna look good. He really needs to have a very solid junior year schedule if he's eyeing UVA.

OP, this PP and the earlier one who wrote out a list for you have very good, specific advice for your DC along with the chorus of nearly everyone else who seem to have a good handle on UVA admissions. To be blunt, it is not a good look for your DS to ease up on the pedal at the start of junior year. This will be the year that colleges will most scrutinize. It will be glaringly obvious that a junior dropped their language. You put UVA on the table and the posters are responding to that. If you had said GMU or JMU, they may have had different responses.

OP here. This statement bothers me. Is it really how UVA admissions will view his junior year if it lacks Spanish 4?

Here is his proposed schedule for 11th grade:

- AP Calc BC
- AP Physics C
- AP Lang/Comp
- Honors US History
- AP Statistics
- Post-AP Computer Science AB
- Fun Elective -- either Debate or Game Design/Development

I just don't see how that is easing up on the pedal. Am I wrong?

That is a very challenging schedule for a junior. I said earlier, my DD dropped spanish after 10th grade and doubled up on science, taking AP Bio and Honors Chem in 11th, along with AP Lang, AP Psych, APUSH and DE Pre-Calc. She literally did not have any electives, and had two study halls because her sport required her to have early release. She got into UVA with a 4.44 GPA and average scores (top 6% of her class).

It really comes down to GPA and taking a solid, difficult schedule with lots of APs. if he wants to take a fun elective, he absolutely should with that schedule. That said, as I also posted, unless he's in the engineering school at UVA he will have to take a language again. (I mention this because even tho you said CS, he could be in the College of Arts and Sciences still. I don't know if the engineering school requires it but I don't think so.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We do not think he will be a failure if he does not get into UVA. But that is currently his top pick. I want him to be realistic about which courses he is choosing for next year. As in, if he doesn't take Spanish 4, then he might not get into UVA. He needs to think about how strongly he wants UVA vs how strongly he would rather not continue in Spanish. Totally up to him.

If it were his senior year and he wasn't taking a foreign language, that would probably be fine. But it sounds like he doesn't want to take one in the junior year, either, and is looking for filling the void with a cheesy elective that's not a core class. It's not gonna look good. He really needs to have a very solid junior year schedule if he's eyeing UVA.

OP, this PP and the earlier one who wrote out a list for you have very good, specific advice for your DC along with the chorus of nearly everyone else who seem to have a good handle on UVA admissions. To be blunt, it is not a good look for your DS to ease up on the pedal at the start of junior year. This will be the year that colleges will most scrutinize. It will be glaringly obvious that a junior dropped their language. You put UVA on the table and the posters are responding to that. If you had said GMU or JMU, they may have had different responses.

OP here. This statement bothers me. Is it really how UVA admissions will view his junior year if it lacks Spanish 4?

Here is his proposed schedule for 11th grade:

- AP Calc BC
- AP Physics C
- AP Lang/Comp
- Honors US History
- AP Statistics
- Post-AP Computer Science AB
- Fun Elective -- either Debate or Game Design/Development

I just don't see how that is easing up on the pedal. Am I wrong?

Hi OP,
I'm the PP with the kid who is also stopping at 3 years of language. His schedule looks pretty similar to this.
AP Physics 1
AP Lang
AP Comp Sci A (must take specific to program)
AP Research (must complete for AP Capstone)
Honors Trig/Math Analysis
Programming class (specific to this ​program)
Either honors US history or APUSH

I was also the one asking about whether to take honors US History or APUSH. But my son is doing AP Capstone, so he took Seminar this year and needs to take Research in Junior year, which is why he doesn't have room for Spanish 4. My son is in a technology program (so has an additional computer class + AP Comp Sci A) but not sure he wants to go into CS...definitely something in the sciences.

One possibility for your son is to take Spanish 4 in summer school--if it is really that important, and I don't know the answer to that. It's something we considered, but I want him to be able to do something he finds interesting this summer, and that certainly isn't Spanish.

I know you're specifically looking at UVA, but everything I've read says that STEM focused schools care a lot less about language. Here is a website with a list of some of the top colleges and their requirements vs. recommendations.
https://blog.collegevine.com/foreign-language-requirements-for-college-admissions/

I don't think anything is set in stone, but my guess is that if he's opting not to take a language, it should at least be replaced with something that is rigorous and very related to what he wants to study.

Of course, there's also just life and that your son is a human being who wants to be happy.

[Anonymous]

OP, I've your son's proposed junior year schedule does look difficult but doesn't look well rounded. It's heavy on science and math and light on everything else. It's not gonna look great compared to other applicants. Sorry.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP, I've your son's proposed junior year schedule does look difficult but doesn't look well rounded. It's heavy on science and math and light on everything else. It's not gonna look great compared to other applicants. Sorry.

I disagree. Those are very difficult courses. I'm the poster right above this, and as I was looking through again, I was actually wondering how OPs kid is able to take some of these classes. At my son's school, you must take AP Physics 1 before C, and I don't even think AP Comp Sci AB is offered. But this looks like a super strong schedule for a STEM kid who is focused on Comp Sci. I don't know specifically about UVA, but I don't necessarily think you need to be "well-rounded." Showing a strong interest in what you really like and an ability to do well in those classes seems pretty relevant.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I've your son's proposed junior year schedule does look difficult but doesn't look well rounded. It's heavy on science and math and light on everything else. It's not gonna look great compared to other applicants. Sorry.

I disagree. Those are very difficult courses. I'm the poster right above this, and as I was looking through again, I was actually wondering how OPs kid is able to take some of these classes. At my son's school, you must take AP Physics 1 before C, and I don't even think AP Comp Sci AB is offered. But this looks like a super strong schedule for a STEM kid who is focused on Comp Sci. I don't know specifically about UVA, but I don't necessarily think you need to be "well-rounded." Showing a strong interest in what you really like and an ability to do well in those classes seems pretty relevant.

If you don't know about UVA, your opinion isn't helpful.

[Anonymous]

OP here. Thank you all very much for your input. I will share these thoughts with my son. FWIW, he is a white male without any "hooks." He plays a few sports (one varsity, two rec), has a small part-time job, attends one minor club once a month. So it sounds like the bottom line is that he has a good chance of getting into UVA with his current scores/schedule, but he has a much better chance of getting into UVA by taking Spanish 4. It will be interesting to see what he decides.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We met with someone from UVA and my understanding was the following:

1. Electives don’t matter they only look (for the most part) at core subjects. They said this explicitly.
2. Core subjects matter a lot and the student needs 4 years in each of the 5 core subjects
3. Not only do they need to take the 5 core subjects every year, they need to take the highest level when possible. For example, if they can take AP Spanish instead of Spanish 5 they need to do that. If they can take AP bio instead of Honors Bio they need to do that. If AP Bio is available and they take AP environmental instead that could be held against them. The language that was used was “missed opportunity.” This is regardless of major. For example, my DS is interested in humanities. They still said that he needs the higher level science and math because he would be compared to students who had taken those classes. It also sounded like one AP lab science was sufficient. They asked lots of questions like, could you go straight into AP Calc or is regular Calc a prerequisite?

I mean, this is a little dramatic but essentially correct. My kid, for example, knew they wanted to major in Spanish. So obviously they took Spanish all the through, taking both AP Language and AP Literature. But they didn't take AP Calculus; they went from Honors Trig to AP Stats. Got in.

I think she was advising on what he could do to be in the best position. He found it discouraging though. In fact, he didn’t apply.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We do not think he will be a failure if he does not get into UVA. But that is currently his top pick. I want him to be realistic about which courses he is choosing for next year. As in, if he doesn't take Spanish 4, then he might not get into UVA. He needs to think about how strongly he wants UVA vs how strongly he would rather not continue in Spanish. Totally up to him.

If it were his senior year and he wasn't taking a foreign language, that would probably be fine. But it sounds like he doesn't want to take one in the junior year, either, and is looking for filling the void with a cheesy elective that's not a core class. It's not gonna look good. He really needs to have a very solid junior year schedule if he's eyeing UVA.

OP, this PP and the earlier one who wrote out a list for you have very good, specific advice for your DC along with the chorus of nearly everyone else who seem to have a good handle on UVA admissions. To be blunt, it is not a good look for your DS to ease up on the pedal at the start of junior year. This will be the year that colleges will most scrutinize. It will be glaringly obvious that a junior dropped their language. You put UVA on the table and the posters are responding to that. If you had said GMU or JMU, they may have had different responses.

Did she apply ED?

OP here. This statement bothers me. Is it really how UVA admissions will view his junior year if it lacks Spanish 4?

Here is his proposed schedule for 11th grade:

- AP Calc BC
- AP Physics C
- AP Lang/Comp
- Honors US History
- AP Statistics
- Post-AP Computer Science AB
- Fun Elective -- either Debate or Game Design/Development

I just don't see how that is easing up on the pedal. Am I wrong?

That is a very challenging schedule for a junior. I said earlier, my DD dropped spanish after 10th grade and doubled up on science, taking AP Bio and Honors Chem in 11th, along with AP Lang, AP Psych, APUSH and DE Pre-Calc. She literally did not have any electives, and had two study halls because her sport required her to have early release. She got into UVA with a 4.44 GPA and average scores (top 6% of her class).

It really comes down to GPA and taking a solid, difficult schedule with lots of APs. if he wants to take a fun elective, he absolutely should with that schedule. That said, as I also posted, unless he's in the engineering school at UVA he will have to take a language again. (I mention this because even tho you said CS, he could be in the College of Arts and Sciences still. I don't know if the engineering school requires it but I don't think so.

[Anonymous]

Did she apply ED?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We do not think he will be a failure if he does not get into UVA. But that is currently his top pick. I want him to be realistic about which courses he is choosing for next year. As in, if he doesn't take Spanish 4, then he might not get into UVA. He needs to think about how strongly he wants UVA vs how strongly he would rather not continue in Spanish. Totally up to him.

If it were his senior year and he wasn't taking a foreign language, that would probably be fine. But it sounds like he doesn't want to take one in the junior year, either, and is looking for filling the void with a cheesy elective that's not a core class. It's not gonna look good. He really needs to have a very solid junior year schedule if he's eyeing UVA.

OP, this PP and the earlier one who wrote out a list for you have very good, specific advice for your DC along with the chorus of nearly everyone else who seem to have a good handle on UVA admissions. To be blunt, it is not a good look for your DS to ease up on the pedal at the start of junior year. This will be the year that colleges will most scrutinize. It will be glaringly obvious that a junior dropped their language. You put UVA on the table and the posters are responding to that. If you had said GMU or JMU, they may have had different responses.

Yeah, at my kid’s school, at a minimum, AP Physics (any if them) had to be paired with AP Calc AB.

OP here. This statement bothers me. Is it really how UVA admissions will view his junior year if it lacks Spanish 4?

Here is his proposed schedule for 11th grade:

- AP Calc BC
- AP Physics C
- AP Lang/Comp
- Honors US History
- AP Statistics
- Post-AP Computer Science AB
- Fun Elective -- either Debate or Game Design/Development

I just don't see how that is easing up on the pedal. Am I wrong?

Hi OP,
I'm the PP with the kid who is also stopping at 3 years of language. His schedule looks pretty similar to this.
AP Physics 1
AP Lang
AP Comp Sci A (must take specific to program)
AP Research (must complete for AP Capstone)
Honors Trig/Math Analysis
Programming class (specific to this ​program)
Either honors US history or APUSH

I was also the one asking about whether to take honors US History or APUSH. But my son is doing AP Capstone, so he took Seminar this year and needs to take Research in Junior year, which is why he doesn't have room for Spanish 4. My son is in a technology program (so has an additional computer class + AP Comp Sci A) but not sure he wants to go into CS...definitely something in the sciences.

One possibility for your son is to take Spanish 4 in summer school--if it is really that important, and I don't know the answer to that. It's something we considered, but I want him to be able to do something he finds interesting this summer, and that certainly isn't Spanish.

I know you're specifically looking at UVA, but everything I've read says that STEM focused schools care a lot less about language. Here is a website with a list of some of the top colleges and their requirements vs. recommendations.
https://blog.collegevine.com/foreign-language-requirements-for-college-admissions/

I don't think anything is set in stone, but my guess is that if he's opting not to take a language, it should at least be replaced with something that is rigorous and very related to what he wants to study.

Of course, there's also just life and that your son is a human being who wants to be happy.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:OP here. Thank you all very much for your input. I will share these thoughts with my son. FWIW, he is a white male without any "hooks." He plays a few sports (one varsity, two rec), has a small part-time job, attends one minor club once a month. So it sounds like the bottom line is that he has a good chance of getting into UVA with his current scores/schedule, but he has a much better chance of getting into UVA by taking Spanish 4. It will be interesting to see what he decides.

DP. I don’t think you can conclude that chances are much better with an additional year of language. And I don’t think anyone can point us to anything supporting this conclusion. But it does appear that everything else equal an extra year of language should be marginally helpful. Also, as some posters pointed out, your DC will have to fulfil language requirements at UVA, which might be tough after not practicing the language for two years

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:Did she apply ED?

If you’re referring to my DD who stopped language after 10th and had two study halls, yes ED. It’s absolutely the way to go if a first choice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We do not think he will be a failure if he does not get into UVA. But that is currently his top pick. I want him to be realistic about which courses he is choosing for next year. As in, if he doesn't take Spanish 4, then he might not get into UVA. He needs to think about how strongly he wants UVA vs how strongly he would rather not continue in Spanish. Totally up to him.

If it were his senior year and he wasn't taking a foreign language, that would probably be fine. But it sounds like he doesn't want to take one in the junior year, either, and is looking for filling the void with a cheesy elective that's not a core class. It's not gonna look good. He really needs to have a very solid junior year schedule if he's eyeing UVA.

OP, this PP and the earlier one who wrote out a list for you have very good, specific advice for your DC along with the chorus of nearly everyone else who seem to have a good handle on UVA admissions. To be blunt, it is not a good look for your DS to ease up on the pedal at the start of junior year. This will be the year that colleges will most scrutinize. It will be glaringly obvious that a junior dropped their language. You put UVA on the table and the posters are responding to that. If you had said GMU or JMU, they may have had different responses.

OP here. This statement bothers me. Is it really how UVA admissions will view his junior year if it lacks Spanish 4?

Here is his proposed schedule for 11th grade:

- AP Calc BC
- AP Physics C
- AP Lang/Comp
- Honors US History
- AP Statistics
- Post-AP Computer Science AB
- Fun Elective -- either Debate or Game Design/Development

I just don't see how that is easing up on the pedal. Am I wrong?

I get ya...but I am not sitting on admissions. In 12th, DD was determined to drop language and add Stats to round out an already crazy schedule, not even taking into account ECs, varsity and travel sport, etc. Of course, part of the reason is that math just comes more easy and she wanted an "easy" elective. College counselor told her she may as well scratch the reach schools off the top of her list. So even though math-challenged mom was super impressed by all the STEM, the college counselor said, "no, not really."

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Did she apply ED?

If you’re referring to my DD who stopped language after 10th and had two study halls, yes ED. It’s absolutely the way to go if a first choice.

Thanks. Yes, I was.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We do not think he will be a failure if he does not get into UVA. But that is currently his top pick. I want him to be realistic about which courses he is choosing for next year. As in, if he doesn't take Spanish 4, then he might not get into UVA. He needs to think about how strongly he wants UVA vs how strongly he would rather not continue in Spanish. Totally up to him.

If it were his senior year and he wasn't taking a foreign language, that would probably be fine. But it sounds like he doesn't want to take one in the junior year, either, and is looking for filling the void with a cheesy elective that's not a core class. It's not gonna look good. He really needs to have a very solid junior year schedule if he's eyeing UVA.

OP, this PP and the earlier one who wrote out a list for you have very good, specific advice for your DC along with the chorus of nearly everyone else who seem to have a good handle on UVA admissions. To be blunt, it is not a good look for your DS to ease up on the pedal at the start of junior year. This will be the year that colleges will most scrutinize. It will be glaringly obvious that a junior dropped their language. You put UVA on the table and the posters are responding to that. If you had said GMU or JMU, they may have had different responses.

OP here. This statement bothers me. Is it really how UVA admissions will view his junior year if it lacks Spanish 4?

Here is his proposed schedule for 11th grade:

- AP Calc BC
- AP Physics C
- AP Lang/Comp
- Honors US History
- AP Statistics
- Post-AP Computer Science AB
- Fun Elective -- either Debate or Game Design/Development

I just don't see how that is easing up on the pedal. Am I wrong?

I get ya...but I am not sitting on admissions. In 12th, DD was determined to drop language and add Stats to round out an already crazy schedule, not even taking into account ECs, varsity and travel sport, etc. Of course, part of the reason is that math just comes more easy and she wanted an "easy" elective. College counselor told her she may as well scratch the reach schools off the top of her list. So even though math-challenged mom was super impressed by all the STEM, the college counselor said, "no, not really."

Parent of a junior who got similar advice - it is mind blowing to me that a non-stem focused kid is expected to take multi variable calculus instead of (or in addition to) statistics in order to keep up “rigor.”