Arrogant Biglaw associates applying for fed jobs

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am guessing you went to a mid-tier law school and are now gleeful about telling the Duke guy to "take a number".

Maybe. But I've seen the same thing, and I went to a T14 and did my federal appellate clerkship. There are some (not all) Biglaw people who have bought into the idea that they are amazing just by virtue of working at a Biglaw firm, when the reality is that they often have less practical and relevant experience than someone from the JAG Corps or the public defender's office. I had more trial responsibilities my first year as an Honors Attorney than my Biglaw friends got in a decade. We routinely get hundreds of applications for lateral openings, including many highly qualified people. Thinking you're a shoe-in is pretty much always delusional.

It's "shoo-in." Common error.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP sounds like a mean girl to me seeking revenge on people who went to top schools.

If you cannot help him, just let him know OP so he can move on to someone who can. Try being decent during the holiday season.

I went to crappy state law school and have enough influence/power to help people regardless of where they went o school. I don't begrudge the Harvards of the world.

OP here. I guess my rant came off a little too ranty, but I was actually extremely nice and gentle with this person during our conversation. And I am genuinely happy to help in how I can, including reviewing and providing feedback on his resume and passing it along when I can. His attitude is what threw me off.

Has he just started his job search? He’s in for a rude awakening but he’ll learn soon enough. I don’t know where this guy went to school. I want to bottom of T14. But I have a lot of friends who went to places like Harvard and yell and in my experience they can have a lot of attitude. They can be very entitled not just about jobs they get, but also on what they work on once they’re there. They’re very into getting “good work.” Whereas people from my school were more just glad to have a job and would suck up and do a broader variety of things.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP sounds like a mean girl to me seeking revenge on people who went to top schools.

If you cannot help him, just let him know OP so he can move on to someone who can. Try being decent during the holiday season.

I went to crappy state law school and have enough influence/power to help people regardless of where they went o school. I don't begrudge the Harvards of the world.

OP here. I guess my rant came off a little too ranty, but I was actually extremely nice and gentle with this person during our conversation. And I am genuinely happy to help in how I can, including reviewing and providing feedback on his resume and passing it along when I can. His attitude is what threw me off.

Has he just started his job search? He’s in for a rude awakening but he’ll learn soon enough. I don’t know where this guy went to school. I want to bottom of T14. But I have a lot of friends who went to places like Harvard and yell and in my experience they can have a lot of attitude. They can be very entitled not just about jobs they get, but also on what they work on once they’re there. They’re very into getting “good work.” Whereas people from my school were more just glad to have a job and would suck up and do a broader variety of things.

Went to

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am guessing you went to a mid-tier law school and are now gleeful about telling the Duke guy to "take a number".

No I went to a T6. I'm just a little appalled by his attitude, is all.

A what?

T6, top 6 or in other words HYSCCN.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP had me until, "And that it takes them 5+ years in biglaw to get the same level of responsibility that we give to first year honors attorneys at my agency." I doubt that is true. It certainly is not at my agency. OP should also realize that what she does is not all that unique. In my experience, I know I can train anyone, so academic credentials are important to me.

Our honors attorneys manage their own cases completely. They are the principal drafters of all their own briefs, motions, discovery requests, etc., they conduct their own depositions, negotiate with counter-parties, and regularly argue in district court. I've never met a biglaw associate who did any of those things in less than 5 years.

My agency and group might be especially good at giving high quality experience to young attorneys, but in general most fed attorneys are getting a lot more responsibility earlier on than most biglaw attorneys.

They draft the brief, motions, discovery, and no one looks it over ... right. What do you think big firm litigation associates do?

Yeah, but the flip side of this is that more mistakes get made by the fed attorneys, since there aren't a bunch of people reviewing every single pleading/filing. A lot of times it's smaller things like typos, but there isn't a "culture of perfection" at most fed agencies like there is at the top law firms.

[Anonymous]

We've hired some BigLaw refugees at my agency. They're mostly just happy to be there. We've also had staff who got headhunted out by BigLaw firms and were back within a couple years.

On the other hand some of the outside BigLaw firm partners treat the government attorneys like we work for them and that is extraordinarily annoying. No, I can't write up a customized proposal for your client. How many times do I have to tell you I can't provide legal advice.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP sounds like a mean girl to me seeking revenge on people who went to top schools.

If you cannot help him, just let him know OP so he can move on to someone who can. Try being decent during the holiday season.

I went to crappy state law school and have enough influence/power to help people regardless of where they went o school. I don't begrudge the Harvards of the world.

OP here. I guess my rant came off a little too ranty, but I was actually extremely nice and gentle with this person during our conversation. And I am genuinely happy to help in how I can, including reviewing and providing feedback on his resume and passing it along when I can. His attitude is what threw me off.

Has he just started his job search? He’s in for a rude awakening but he’ll learn soon enough. I don’t know where this guy went to school. I want to bottom of T14. But I have a lot of friends who went to places like Harvard and yell and in my experience they can have a lot of attitude. They can be very entitled not just about jobs they get, but also on what they work on once they’re there. They’re very into getting “good work.” Whereas people from my school were more just glad to have a job and would suck up and do a broader variety of things.

Hilarious. Why not just say "number 14"? Or rather, why not say that you went to a top 25 school? I'll tell you why - it's because you want to make very, very clear that you didn't go to schools 15-25.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am guessing you went to a mid-tier law school and are now gleeful about telling the Duke guy to "take a number".

No I went to a T6. I'm just a little appalled by his attitude, is all.

A what?

T6, top 6 or in other words HYSCCN.

It's terminology used by people who derive an unhealthy amount of their identity from where they went to school, and their perception of themselves just could not tolerate anyone - internet strangers, even - thinking they went to the #8 ranked law school in the country. Heaven forfend.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP sounds like a mean girl to me seeking revenge on people who went to top schools.

If you cannot help him, just let him know OP so he can move on to someone who can. Try being decent during the holiday season.

I went to crappy state law school and have enough influence/power to help people regardless of where they went o school. I don't begrudge the Harvards of the world.

OP here. I guess my rant came off a little too ranty, but I was actually extremely nice and gentle with this person during our conversation. And I am genuinely happy to help in how I can, including reviewing and providing feedback on his resume and passing it along when I can. His attitude is what threw me off.

Has he just started his job search? He’s in for a rude awakening but he’ll learn soon enough. I don’t know where this guy went to school. I want to bottom of T14. But I have a lot of friends who went to places like Harvard and yell and in my experience they can have a lot of attitude. They can be very entitled not just about jobs they get, but also on what they work on once they’re there. They’re very into getting “good work.” Whereas people from my school were more just glad to have a job and would suck up and do a broader variety of things.

Hilarious. Why not just say "number 14"? Or rather, why not say that you went to a top 25 school? I'll tell you why - it's because you want to make very, very clear that you didn't go to schools 15-25.

NP but actually you’re wildly off base. As weird as it is, this is the convention for law schools. T3, T6, T10, and T14 are the tiers. It’s odd but lawyers get it.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am guessing you went to a mid-tier law school and are now gleeful about telling the Duke guy to "take a number".

No I went to a T6. I'm just a little appalled by his attitude, is all.

A what?

T6, top 6 or in other words HYSCCN.

It's terminology used by people who derive an unhealthy amount of their identity from where they went to school, and their perception of themselves just could not tolerate anyone - internet strangers, even - thinking they went to the #8 ranked law school in the country. Heaven forfend.

Yikes, relax. It’s a pretty common term for that group of schools.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP sounds like a mean girl to me seeking revenge on people who went to top schools.

If you cannot help him, just let him know OP so he can move on to someone who can. Try being decent during the holiday season.

I went to crappy state law school and have enough influence/power to help people regardless of where they went o school. I don't begrudge the Harvards of the world.

OP here. I guess my rant came off a little too ranty, but I was actually extremely nice and gentle with this person during our conversation. And I am genuinely happy to help in how I can, including reviewing and providing feedback on his resume and passing it along when I can. His attitude is what threw me off.

Has he just started his job search? He’s in for a rude awakening but he’ll learn soon enough. I don’t know where this guy went to school. I want to bottom of T14. But I have a lot of friends who went to places like Harvard and yell and in my experience they can have a lot of attitude. They can be very entitled not just about jobs they get, but also on what they work on once they’re there. They’re very into getting “good work.” Whereas people from my school were more just glad to have a job and would suck up and do a broader variety of things.

Hilarious. Why not just say "number 14"? Or rather, why not say that you went to a top 25 school? I'll tell you why - it's because you want to make very, very clear that you didn't go to schools 15-25.

NP but actually you’re wildly off base. As weird as it is, this is the convention for law schools. T3, T6, T10, and T14 are the tiers. It’s odd but lawyers get it.

Lawyers who are on their first job, and still need external validation, maybe. Or who spend too much time on ATL.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP, I am guessing you went to a mid-tier law school and are now gleeful about telling the Duke guy to "take a number".

No I went to a T6. I'm just a little appalled by his attitude, is all.

A what?

T6, top 6 or in other words HYSCCN.

It's terminology used by people who derive an unhealthy amount of their identity from where they went to school, and their perception of themselves just could not tolerate anyone - internet strangers, even - thinking they went to the #8 ranked law school in the country. Heaven forfend.

Alright this has taken a turn. I’m the op and I want to clarify that I don’t care where anyone went to law school, and I don’t think anyone should care where I went. I only mentioned it in the OP because this candidate does have a good academic record and big names on his resume, so maybe that explains his belief that he would be one of the top candidates. For a job at his level we care more much about your work experience than where you went to school, was my only point.

[Anonymous]

Yep. I posted on here a while back about going in as a partner from my honors position/agency, and folks were furious about the gall. Given that I had been chief of my agency and done many, many trials, I did, indeed, go in as a partner at a top level firm.

[Anonymous]

Big law associates are arrogant. You don't say! What else is new?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP sounds like a mean girl to me seeking revenge on people who went to top schools.

If you cannot help him, just let him know OP so he can move on to someone who can. Try being decent during the holiday season.

I went to crappy state law school and have enough influence/power to help people regardless of where they went o school. I don't begrudge the Harvards of the world.

OP here. I guess my rant came off a little too ranty, but I was actually extremely nice and gentle with this person during our conversation. And I am genuinely happy to help in how I can, including reviewing and providing feedback on his resume and passing it along when I can. His attitude is what threw me off.

Has he just started his job search? He’s in for a rude awakening but he’ll learn soon enough. I don’t know where this guy went to school. I want to bottom of T14. But I have a lot of friends who went to places like Harvard and yell and in my experience they can have a lot of attitude. They can be very entitled not just about jobs they get, but also on what they work on once they’re there. They’re very into getting “good work.” Whereas people from my school were more just glad to have a job and would suck up and do a broader variety of things.

Hilarious. Why not just say "number 14"? Or rather, why not say that you went to a top 25 school? I'll tell you why - it's because you want to make very, very clear that you didn't go to schools 15-25.

NP but actually you’re wildly off base. As weird as it is, this is the convention for law schools. T3, T6, T10, and T14 are the tiers. It’s odd but lawyers get it.

I'm not really T10 is a tier, but other than that, I agree. T14 is typically the cutoff for "national" law schools, or in other words a school that places its graduates across the country.