Fleishman is in Trouble - anyone else read?

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I listened to the audiobook for this when it first came out - I don't remember a lot of the details other than that I didn't really like any of the characters and it was pretty depressing as someone who's not to that stage of life yet, but not far from it. But I also couldn't stop listening to it and certain aspects of the plotline or the images from it have stuck with me.

Which ones?

I sometimes get things from media I dislike - or don't feel quite settled by - stuck in my head, too. I thought Addie LaRue was a really engaging but frustrating book, for example - and sometimes out of nowhere I will picture her and Luc sitting at a nightclub, and just beg her to ask him some questions about his life while they're there. Don't just sit there petulantly, you have eternity to LEARN and discover things! (She doesn't listen).

PP here. *Spoilers*

The part about the wife who died young of Wilson disease. I have pretty extreme medical anxiety, so this sort of thing sticks with me.

The sayings on the workout tanks. I think of this (and chuckle) every time I see a workout shirt with words on it, on a person or while shopping.

The general sense of doom I had the whole time reading it. It just felt like nothing good was possible - and then things would take a turn for the worse.

[/quote0

Me too- I avoid all movies, books and even articles where illness or disability is anything but a quickly glossed over element. My brain fixates on death and disease without any additional stimuli.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I loved it. The point is that Libby can’t tell her story, orRachel’s, without first centering it around a man.

Exactly. When everything shifted and that became clear, I suddenly saw the Toby BS through a different lens. It was a long way to go to get there, but for me, the payoff was definitely worth it, and I enjoyed the book much more.

The author is a smart, savvy woman. I don’t think she intended for the characters to be “relatable” in their specifics. But the book as a whole was constructed as commentary on the sad truth that women's stories often need to be folded into men’s stories in order to be told - especially if an author wants to be taken swriosly as literary fiction (red by men and women, alike) rather than relegated to “chick lit” (dismissed by men and read only by women.)

Yup, this is it. I didn’t really enjoy it, but after I finished I appreciated what she was doing. I also resented having to read so much about Toby, from Toby’s perspective, to get to the payoff, even if that was the point. I’ve never recommended it to another reader.

Lots of spoilers in this article, but a great take on the series (and the bigger picture point of the book):
https://slate.com/culture/2022/12/fleishman-is-in-trouble-hulu-perspective-divorce.html

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I loved it. The point is that Libby can’t tell her story, orRachel’s, without first centering it around a man.

Exactly. When everything shifted and that became clear, I suddenly saw the Toby BS through a different lens. It was a long way to go to get there, but for me, the payoff was definitely worth it, and I enjoyed the book much more.

The author is a smart, savvy woman. I don’t think she intended for the characters to be “relatable” in their specifics. But the book as a whole was constructed as commentary on the sad truth that women's stories often need to be folded into men’s stories in order to be told - especially if an author wants to be taken swriosly as literary fiction (red by men and women, alike) rather than relegated to “chick lit” (dismissed by men and read only by women.)

Yup, this is it. I didn’t really enjoy it, but after I finished I appreciated what she was doing. I also resented having to read so much about Toby, from Toby’s perspective, to get to the payoff, even if that was the point. I’ve never recommended it to another reader.

That resentment is definitely intended! She’s trying to raise your frustration to a boiling point before giving you the payoff - mimicking the frustration that working moms feel in the real world with everything stacked against them.

As a divorced working mom, I should have empathized with the novel's mom. Instead, I just felt frustrated with the long, long exposition about Toby, who sort of resembled my X but not really. I guess if I were writing this, I'd start with the Toby stuff but cut it way back.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I loved it. The point is that Libby can’t tell her story, orRachel’s, without first centering it around a man.

Exactly. When everything shifted and that became clear, I suddenly saw the Toby BS through a different lens. It was a long way to go to get there, but for me, the payoff was definitely worth it, and I enjoyed the book much more.

The author is a smart, savvy woman. I don’t think she intended for the characters to be “relatable” in their specifics. But the book as a whole was constructed as commentary on the sad truth that women's stories often need to be folded into men’s stories in order to be told - especially if an author wants to be taken swriosly as literary fiction (red by men and women, alike) rather than relegated to “chick lit” (dismissed by men and read only by women.)

Yup, this is it. I didn’t really enjoy it, but after I finished I appreciated what she was doing. I also resented having to read so much about Toby, from Toby’s perspective, to get to the payoff, even if that was the point. I’ve never recommended it to another reader.

That resentment is definitely intended! She’s trying to raise your frustration to a boiling point before giving you the payoff - mimicking the frustration that working moms feel in the real world with everything stacked against them.

As a divorced working mom, I should have empathized with the novel's mom. Instead, I just felt frustrated with the long, long exposition about Toby, who sort of resembled my X but not really. I guess if I were writing this, I'd start with the Toby stuff but cut it way back.

PS, I should clarify that I was almost in Fleishman's position of suddenly having to take care of two kids, with one high school kid who choose to live with me FT and almost all the bills for the older kid's college. (XDH, a GS-15, somehow decided I could handle it all.) That circumstance made Toby a lot more sympathetic, and Rachel a whole lot less sympathetic, at least to me. Yes, probably the author wanted to ramp off the frustration before she switched perspective, to make the change even more dramatic. But to me, after Rachel absconded she never completely earned my sympathy after her return.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I loved it. The point is that Libby can’t tell her story, orRachel’s, without first centering it around a man.

Exactly. When everything shifted and that became clear, I suddenly saw the Toby BS through a different lens. It was a long way to go to get there, but for me, the payoff was definitely worth it, and I enjoyed the book much more.

The author is a smart, savvy woman. I don’t think she intended for the characters to be “relatable” in their specifics. But the book as a whole was constructed as commentary on the sad truth that women's stories often need to be folded into men’s stories in order to be told - especially if an author wants to be taken swriosly as literary fiction (red by men and women, alike) rather than relegated to “chick lit” (dismissed by men and read only by women.)

Yup, this is it. I didn’t really enjoy it, but after I finished I appreciated what she was doing. I also resented having to read so much about Toby, from Toby’s perspective, to get to the payoff, even if that was the point. I’ve never recommended it to another reader.

That resentment is definitely intended! She’s trying to raise your frustration to a boiling point before giving you the payoff - mimicking the frustration that working moms feel in the real world with everything stacked against them.

As a divorced working mom, I should have empathized with the novel's mom. Instead, I just felt frustrated with the long, long exposition about Toby, who sort of resembled my X but not really. I guess if I were writing this, I'd start with the Toby stuff but cut it way back.

PS, I should clarify that I was almost in Fleishman's position of suddenly having to take care of two kids, with one high school kid who choose to live with me FT and almost all the bills for the older kid's college. (XDH, a GS-15, somehow decided I could handle it all.) That circumstance made Toby a lot more sympathetic, and Rachel a whole lot less sympathetic, at least to me. Yes, probably the author wanted to ramp off the frustration before she switched perspective, to make the change even more dramatic. But to me, after Rachel absconded she never completely earned my sympathy after her return.

Same here, but I still really liked the book. The flip in perspective was great. For me, it was ok that Rachel wasn't 100% sympathetic. It was a relief to scope out from the insufferable Toby perspective and instead have more complexity to consider. Even though Rachel wasn't a straight-up sympathetic character either.

Meanwhile, I'm so sorry about your XDH. Sounds awful. No doubt you're better off without him, but that doesn't mean it's been easy. Hugs!