A Note on Teacher Quality At Privates

[Anonymous]

A friend of mine was making about 90K teaching an elementary grade at a NoVa public. She applied for a job at a NoVa private that was advertised at about 80K. They met her salary requirement of matching her current salary. She was highly qualified and worth every penny. I was impressed that the private would do that. My impression of privates had been that they save money by hiring less qualified (on paper) teachers who were willing to work for less money.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nearly all of the teachers at my kid’s private have taught in public schools and hold graduate degrees and additional certifications. They’ve moved to public because they (like us) became frustrated with the public system. They WANT to treat children as individuals, and in a class with 15 children, they can do that.

In any case...

There’s very little empirical evidence that a degree in education = better teaching based upon standardized measures (at least in my field, early childhood).

There IS evidence that education majors typically have the lowest SAT scores of all other majors.

Make of those facts what you will, but for me, arguing that public is better bc of teacher certification isn’t a good argument. All that means is that those teachers jumped through hoops to become part of the bureaucracy. (And yes, I hold teacher certification. I don’t think it makes me better qualified to teach than someone with a degree in classics who is passionate about teaching and learning.)

+ 1

Plus, this whole "public schools pay more" argument is ridiculous. It's a much harder job to teach at a public school, and at many public schools being a teacher has become more like being a social worker than being in education.

Regardless, the vast majority of teachers at my kids' private school have spouses who earn enough that they don't really care that they make a bit less at private. They choose to teach at a private school because it's actually a pretty comfortable job with good hours that are compatible with raising a family.

My god, would people STOP spreading this myth. I read this all the time on this board but it's simply NOT TRUE. Private school parents love to tell themselves this so they don't have to feel bad that the teachers at their kids' schools are underpaid. Just because you know a handful of teachers with high earning spouses, it does NOT mean it's the norm. At all.

[Anonymous]

I don't know how kids learn in a classroom of 25-30+ kids. Class sizes in public education are a joke. Once you've experienced class sizes of 8-12 kids, you realize there's just no comparison whatsoever.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I don't know how kids learn in a classroom of 25-30+ kids. Class sizes in public education are a joke. Once you've experienced class sizes of 8-12 kids, you realize there's just no comparison whatsoever.

Weird, my public school kid learned tons and went to Columbia on the strength of demonstrating that knowledge on the APs and SATs. But keep telling yourself what makes you feel good.

[Anonymous]

I am a former public school teacher now teaching in private school. My skills have nothing to do with my certification. They have to do with my passion for the subject matter, my love of working with children, and my willingness to stretch and experiment in the classroom. The certification was a box I had to check in work in the public system. I switched environments for more autonomy and a greater sense of community. I get emails every week from former colleagues asking me how they can make the transition to private school. You can get good or bad teachers anywhere, but my private school colleagues are excellent, and we get a tremendous amount of PD, including around instructional best practices. In public school, I spent a good deal of my time sitting through irrelevant trainings, prepping for and administering standardized tests and logging data for the sake of logging data.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Nearly all of the teachers at my kid’s private have taught in public schools and hold graduate degrees and additional certifications. They’ve moved to public because they (like us) became frustrated with the public system. They WANT to treat children as individuals, and in a class with 15 children, they can do that.

In any case...

There’s very little empirical evidence that a degree in education = better teaching based upon standardized measures (at least in my field, early childhood).

There IS evidence that education majors typically have the lowest SAT scores of all other majors.

Make of those facts what you will, but for me, arguing that public is better bc of teacher certification isn’t a good argument. All that means is that those teachers jumped through hoops to become part of the bureaucracy. (And yes, I hold teacher certification. I don’t think it makes me better qualified to teach than someone with a degree in classics who is passionate about teaching and learning.)

+ 1

Plus, this whole "public schools pay more" argument is ridiculous. It's a much harder job to teach at a public school, and at many public schools being a teacher has become more like being a social worker than being in education.

Regardless, the vast majority of teachers at my kids' private school have spouses who earn enough that they don't really care that they make a bit less at private. They choose to teach at a private school because it's actually a pretty comfortable job with good hours that are compatible with raising a family.

My god, would people STOP spreading this myth. I read this all the time on this board but it's simply NOT TRUE. Private school parents love to tell themselves this so they don't have to feel bad that the teachers at their kids' schools are underpaid. Just because you know a handful of teachers with high earning spouses, it does NOT mean it's the norm. At all.

Hi. I don't know about high earning spouses, but compatible with raising a family made it an OK trade off for me. I wouldn't want to be the primary earner - don't really see how it's possible in our high cost of living area unless you are just starting out and making all the sacrifices that one does. It is the road I chose as the secondary earner. And sure, I think salary could be looked at, but my balance of life is MUCH better in private than public and I would trade money for that. - teacher

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don't know how kids learn in a classroom of 25-30+ kids. Class sizes in public education are a joke. Once you've experienced class sizes of 8-12 kids, you realize there's just no comparison whatsoever.

Weird, my public school kid learned tons and went to Columbia on the strength of demonstrating that knowledge on the APs and SATs. But keep telling yourself what makes you feel good.

Thanks for your data point of ONE. What year did your kid graduate from high school? Do you have kids in the public system right now? Things have changed.

Bet your kid prepped for the tests, like the vast majority of public school students. Mine didn’t, so there’s another data point of one.

[Anonymous]

I’m not sure I understand the purpose of the OP? Just to comment that not all teachers are “good” teachers? Are we getting into a debate about good vs bad?

Remote school was eye opening for us - or maybe it shouldn’t have been - and have us the chance to teach our kids that (1) not everyone likes you or will like you and you won’t like everyone, but you still might have to put up with that person in the workplace; and (2) some teachers should not be teaching.

This year both of our kids’ schools hired what appear to be less credentialed teachers than the normal route. I don’t know if there was a shortage of teachers but I was surprised some of these teachers made the cut on paper. One of these teachers, in particular, had been amazing - not because he is teaching my kid quantum physics in 5th grade, but because he got my kid to care about a subject at which my DC struggles and, up until this year, could stand. To me, that’s a win.

Again, I have no clue what the poster is getting at so I might be off topic. I’m just delighted my DC enjoys going to school everyday. At least one of them does

[Anonymous]

Pp here. A subject my child could NOT stand.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:I am a former public school teacher now teaching in private school. My skills have nothing to do with my certification. They have to do with my passion for the subject matter, my love of working with children, and my willingness to stretch and experiment in the classroom. The certification was a box I had to check in work in the public system. I switched environments for more autonomy and a greater sense of community. I get emails every week from former colleagues asking me how they can make the transition to private school. You can get good or bad teachers anywhere, but my private school colleagues are excellent, and we get a tremendous amount of PD, including around instructional best practices. In public school, I spent a good deal of my time sitting through irrelevant trainings, prepping for and administering standardized tests and logging data for the sake of logging data.

+1.

I doubt there's an intrinsic difference between public and private school teachers, and many teachers have worked in both. But in my experience, independent schools can better set up teachers to succeed: by keeping classes smaller, allowing curricular freedom, not needing to plan around state tests, being able to do trips or projects without tons of bureaucracy, being able to move students in and out of classes to get the right fit, etc.

[Anonymous]

Agree with the credentials as a box to check. While we have a small sample size, our experience with private teachers vs public so far has been the ability to engage with my kids on a more personal level and create an environment where they are excited to learn.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:A friend of mine was making about 90K teaching an elementary grade at a NoVa public. She applied for a job at a NoVa private that was advertised at about 80K. They met her salary requirement of matching her current salary. She was highly qualified and worth every penny. I was impressed that the private would do that. My impression of privates had been that they save money by hiring less qualified (on paper) teachers who were willing to work for less money.

Did they match her health insurance and other benefits?

[Anonymous]

We have had a mix at our k-8 private - some very good and some terrible ones. Wish the school would monitor the terrible ones and realize they are not teaching to the kids and the parents are having to supplement outside.

[Anonymous]

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A friend of mine was making about 90K teaching an elementary grade at a NoVa public. She applied for a job at a NoVa private that was advertised at about 80K. They met her salary requirement of matching her current salary. She was highly qualified and worth every penny. I was impressed that the private would do that. My impression of privates had been that they save money by hiring less qualified (on paper) teachers who were willing to work for less money.

Did they match her health insurance and other benefits?

I’m a DP, but I can answer with my experience. I switched from public to private in my 12th year of teaching. The private matched my salary. I was offered comparable health benefits. The one place I took a hit was the state pension. I am no longer contributing, but the new school contributes to my retirement. I suspect I would have been better off staying in the pension system, but I love my new school and consider it a great trade.

As for teacher quality, I work with a higher caliber of teachers at the private. They’re more passionate, more willing to put in the long hours necessary to be an effective teacher, and more professional. That being said, I’m commenting on only two schools. My experience could have been vastly different if I worked somewhere else. Perhaps I was just at a poorly-run public school? You can’t answer this question definitively because there are simply too many variables.

[Anonymous]

Grading and sorting?

Signed a parent with kids in private that doesn't provide grades and has textbooks