Which rankings are most important?
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Anonymous
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The various national and international rankings are very confusing. It seems that for the Untied States, the US News rankings are most widely quoted (accepted) - but there are others including Forbes and United States National Research Council Rankings. There are also specific program rankings - Businessweek and Bloomberg for business schools and some international rankings. Once you move beyond the very top HPY - the rankings are all over the place. Who do you reconcile these?
Another thing that puzzles me is how the separate USNews rankings of small liberal schools relate to National University rankings - how does Swarthmore #3 compare to Duke #8? |
Anonymous
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The US News rankings have been widely criticized, including for the fact that colleges have started to manipulate their rankings by pumping up applications and even lying about average SAT scores.
There are also other good rankings to consider. I think from the Financial Times has a good ranking that includes universities in Britain, Singapore, China, et cetera. The Huffington Post also has rankings, I think by small liberal arts schools, best schools for your money, et cetera. Anyway, there are a few useful approaches. If you look at enough of these rankings, you will probably start to figure out who is generally near the top (Swarthmore and Duke) and who is not. Then maybe the best thing is for your kid to decide whether he wants a small campus (Swarthmore) or a big sports school (Duke) and then look within the rankings for just these specific categories - i.e. the LACs ranking that would include Swarthmore. |
Anonymous
| Does it really even matter if you're attending a #3 or 8? |
Anonymous
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None of the rankings are important. They might give you a jumping off point. For example, you might notice that 3 schools you really like and think are matches for your child are clustered in the 20 - 40 range on LAC's and decide to investigate other schools in the same range that you haven't heard of.
However, the decision about where to apply, and where to go, should be based on far more than a ranking on UNSWR. |
Anonymous
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All of the ranking are crap and distorting. You can't boil down a college to one particular set of variables, especially variables you don't share. So, US News looks at percentage of applicants who are accepted? Do you know how many schools now have visiting students fill out a "preliminary application" (free!) to skew that number? Or how many schools don't report SAT scores of athletes because they somehow fall into an "other" category? Or how many schools just lie?
I have a DC at Reed College -- one of the most rigorous schools in the country, that routinely sends the highest number of students to Phd programs. In the mid 90s Reed decided to stop submitting information to US News. The following year they went from one of the top colleges to last place. There was such a big hue and cry that now US News sticks them somewhere in the middle. This hasn't hurt Reed any because they are quite open about how ridiculous this is. Why would you look at rankings anyway? To gage how others will perceive your DC's college choice? The only way to find the right college is to do research and then to visit, if possible. Everyone is different and you can't outsource how you would rank colleges to some outside source. |
Anonymous
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A lot of wishful thinking here. If rankings didn't matter, schools wouldn't put so much effort into "gaming" the rankings. Saying "rankings SHOULDN'T matter" is a reasonable poistin, saying "rankings are not important" is nonsense.
Reed College was hopeful that others would follow suit, but VERY few have. Rankings remain relevant. |
Anonymous
Why worry about rankings at all? Find a school that is a good fit for the student. |
Anonymous
| We are in the midst of college visits. It's hard to ignore the rankings, and we are looking at schools in the top 25 of both US news lists, but so far my DCs reaction to colleges has been without regard to rankings. dC liked some high ranked ones and really disliked others (including a couple of Ivy League schools). Same with school in the 20s- like some, don't like others. So the rankings are one piece of info but in the end they shouldn't be what drives a college decision. |
Anonymous
Because for better or worse, your child's future employers are probably looking at the rankings. |
Anonymous
Not true. Seriously, do you think they sit there and scroll through the US News Lists? |
Anonymous
Well, schools might find them relevant enough to try to game the system, and parents might find them relevant for status purposes but the most relevant information for the student can't be found in rankings. I agree that it would have been better if others followed Reed's example, but I am glad that it has thrived on its own terms. |
Anonymous
At the law school level, for example, some big firms have different standards depending on whether a school is "top 20" or not. |
Anonymous
Of course not, don't be silly. But they are well aware of the difference between Dartmouth and *insert name of 2nd or 3rd tier school here*. Some, but not all, of the associates/low-level staffers the firm dispatches to recruit at schools may also have recently checked where their own Ivy stands in the rankings these days. Yes, I went to a top business school and attended recruitment events hosted by Salomon (back in the day) and others, and I do have an idea how these things work. (And this forum used to be more respectful than other forums. The barbarians are at the gate now. Sigh.) |
Anonymous
This is a bit circular - how do you decide which school is the "best fit" for a student? or do you just settle for any school that seems to be a "good fit?" As anyone who goes through the process will learn, there are thousands of schools out there - many you haven't heard of until they send information to your DC. There has to be a starting point to find a range of schools that might be appropriate. There are many schools that might seem to be a "good fit" but do you want to ignore the possibility of finding a much better fit. If you think college counslers have all the answers you are wrong. Also,school visits aren't as instructive as you might imagine -- you get the "brochure version" of the school - often quite different from the reality of the average student. It is a hard process to find out what is really out there - and rankings a ONE tool that can be used. |
Anonymous
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Employers know about Dartmouth and other schools. if they care about such things they don't need nor will they consult US News. Its not like they are coming in from Mars with no other information sources. Why would they care that in one particularly year, more applicants said no to Middlebury and more said yes to Bowdoin?
There is no ranking that can tell you about the culture of a school, which is one of the most important aspects of a fit. I'll bet if your DC makes a list of what is important to him or her in a college, very few of the things on that list will be taken into account for rankings. School visits are MUCH more helpful than rankings. My DC scratched some schools she had thought would be high on her list off completely after she saw them. And fell in love with others she hadn't thought would be high on her list. |